The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

Of course not.

Not for a lack of trying, though.

I know they won 2 games, and beat "Brock Hall of Connecticut" in the "title" game 9-1. I have no idea who else they played though.

 

[state of hockey]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

I know they won 2 games, and beat "Brock Hall of Connecticut" in the "title" game 9-1. I have no idea who else they played though.

See my edit.

That site is a wealth of information, especially the "past schedules" link.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

See my edit.

That site is a wealth of information, especially the "past schedules" link.

It also lists if they won a league title, or championship, or whatever, and whatever it was called at the time. The whole history is there.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

See my edit.

That site is a wealth of information, especially the "past schedules" link.

Very nice site. I have no clue who "Amesbury" is, nor Brock Hall of CT. The only thing I've ever found for Brock Hall is that it was a building on the Univ. of Connecticut.

I don't even know if they were college hockey teams.

 

[state of hockey]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

Very nice site. I have no clue who "Amesbury" is, nor Brock Hall of CT. The only thing I've ever found for Brock Hall is that it was a building on the Univ. of Connecticut.

I don't even know if they were college hockey teams.

They may not have been. All we really know is that they were amatuer.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

They may not have been. All we really know is that they were amatuer.

At the end of the day it doesn't really matter. It's what the landscape was like back then.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

Interesting though that Minnesota was Big 10 Champions 7 of their first 8 years. And Michigan and Wisconsin were at least in the league at the time.

 

[JMF]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

Sorry to be late to a couple of thoughts....

I would add a criteria rewarding a school if a school has their own building and the quality of their overall facilities. Sharing a larger arena with a larger entity doesn't seem to be worth more points if building size is a criteria. At the same time one could add a formula for the age of the facilities.

Despite the position of the gentlemen form Minnesota, using NCAA NCs seems more than fair.

I would love to see this same process used for coaches as well as conferences, though the head to head aspect would need to be eliminated or changed.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

At the end of the day it doesn't really matter. It's what the landscape was like back then.

I do think that if you took pre-NCAA into account you would also have to find some way to give programs that started out DII/DIII and eventually moved up some credit for what they did before D1. It just gets awfully messy. I think you did right.

 

[ronmexico]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

Books are nice, but obviously, big schools with big fan bases are going to sell more copies than small schools with small fanbases.

I have college hockey books highlighting Minnesota, Michigan, Denver, Cornell, BU, Michigan State, Yale, North Dakota and Wisconsin off the top of my head.

There are probably others, and my favorite two college hockey books are about Princeton's Hobey Baker.

I’ll bet Swami even bought a copy of the CC documentary released last year. He’ll never admit it but I knows he has a copy.

Hey Swami – a book list would be nice. Can I consider you my personal library or should I buy these *****es?

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

I do think that if you took pre-NCAA into account you would also have to find some way to give programs that started out DII/DIII and eventually moved up some credit for what they did before D1. It just gets awfully messy. I think you did right.

Thanks. Perhaps I could have included D2 and D3 but weighted it. Of course, if I included that, then Bemidji would want their NAIA counted. It's a slippery slope.

FWIW, I put in a few months of thought into my formula before doing any research.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

I would love to see this same process used for coaches as well as conferences, though the head to head aspect would need to be eliminated or changed.

I will be using the same basic formula for coaches this summer. I'll be starting it's own thread. I should probably do that soon so people can nominate the coaches they want me to plug into the formula.

As for conferences, my formula would be a bit tricky, but doable. I'll see what I can come up with...

 

[Rhett]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

Very nice site. I have no clue who "Amesbury" is, nor Brock Hall of CT. The only thing I've ever found for Brock Hall is that it was a building on the Univ. of Connecticut.

I don't even know if they were college hockey teams.

I first thought it could have been a club from Amesbury, Massachusetts... but I think it could be a Canadian club. There is a Amesbury Hockey Club still active in the North York Hockey League. It could be an arm of that club, or a forerunner. The AAU is not an exclusively American organization and many Canadian clubs played for the "National" Championship.

 

[Bigus Paulus]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

Great list FS23.

Now you have to compile a list of the least accomplished hockey programs from 1 to 58.

 

[Chickens@NU]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

Great list FS23.

Now you have to compile a list of the least accomplished hockey programs from 1 to 58.

Just start at the begining of the thread and renumber them (58 = 1, 57 = 2, etc.)

(I'm a tool.)

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

I’ll bet Swami even bought a copy of the CC documentary released last year. He’ll never admit it but I knows he has a copy.

Hey Swami – a book list would be nice. Can I consider you my personal library or should I buy these *****es?

I don't have the CC video. It was originally envisioned as a documentary about the DU/CC rivalry, but DU wasn't interested in paying development money for it, and so it became a CC-oriented project.

Most of the college hockey books aren't that great. They tend to be vanity projects aimed at the hometown crowd, and often omit or downplay the the difficulties and bad issues that every program faces. The best college hockey book I've read is Emil Salvini's biography of Hobey Baker. And two of the better ones on a program are "Blue Ice" (John Bacon's book about Michigan), and Adam Wodon's book on Cornell hockey, both of which have great pictures,too.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

Skating Engineers: Hockey at RPI by Arcadia Publishers

http://www.amazon.com/Skating-Engin...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1298478044&sr=1-1

 

[Rhett]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

Skating Engineers: Hockey at RPI by Arcadia Publishers

http://www.amazon.com/Skating-Engin...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1298478044&sr=1-1

I doubt FS23 wants this to become a "book" thread... but I'll just chime in really quickly. The Arcadia books are great for old photos, but don't have any quantitative data and few stories longer than a picture caption blurb. They're very cool, but not very helpful for research or in depth history purposes.

That said, the BU version is by Bernie Corbett (BU radio voice, author of the Beanpot coffee-table book) and is very good. When I lived further north, I used to see the UNH, Maine, and Dartmouth books all the time. I'd guess several other older, successful programs have recieved Arcadia treatments as well.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

I doubt FS23 wants this to become a "book" thread...

The idea was to develop a metric for greatest 'program' that went beyond the active players; books in print was just a suggestion for the metric and not an end in itself.

The Arcadia books are great for old photos, but don't have any quantitative data and few stories longer than a picture caption blurb. They're very cool, but not very helpful for research or in depth history purposes.

.

If one assumes that Arcadia published these books with the expectation of making a profit, then one might further assume that Arcadia chose programs whose alumni, etc. would have enough 'critical mass' to purchase enough books to make the printing profitable.

Ihat said, the BU version is by Bernie Corbett (BU radio voice, author of the Beanpot coffee-table book) and is very good. When I lived further north, I used to see the UNH, Maine, and Dartmouth books all the time. I'd guess several other older, successful programs have recieved Arcadia treatments as well.

Arcadia is one example of something OTHER THAN 'Omega University Press' which FS23 wanted to discount, and which I agreed.

There are other metrics beyond books; obviously my bias is now exposed since RPI would be the only program of which I am aware whose 'Big Red Freakout!' resulted in a rules change. In 1987, they gave out horns to everyone attending the game, and it caused so much noise that the NCAA implemented a rule change, restricting what kinds of items could be given out. Now that is a fervent fan base and that fervor should be recognized somehow in the metrics for a greatest 'program'.

Also, I attended Harvard and my progeny attends RPI, and any kind of points that RPI could squeeze out would put them at # 15 and Harvard at # 16 (you can tell I do not have fond memories of my Harvard days while my progeny really likes it at RPI).

 

[jerphisch]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

I don't have the CC video. It was originally envisioned as a documentary about the DU/CC rivalry, but DU wasn't interested in paying development money for it, and so it became a CC-oriented project.

It is still about the CC/DU rivalry, it is painfully lacking of any other material. The only time it breaks from the rivalry is a brief bit on CC almost killing the program.