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The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

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Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

FreshFish said:
There are other metrics beyond books; obviously my bias is now exposed since RPI would be the only program of which I am aware whose 'Big Red Freakout!' resulted in a rules change. In 1987, they gave out horns to everyone attending the game, and it caused so much noise that the NCAA implemented a rule change, restricting what kinds of items could be given out. Now that is a fervent fan base and that fervor should be recognized somehow in the metrics for a greatest 'program'.
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Bentley and Niagara caused rule changes in the NCAA selection process. If you want to use rule changes, those two should get some credit.
 
Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

komey1 said:
Bentley and Niagara caused rule changes in the NCAA selection process. If you want to use rule changes, those two should get some credit.
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One could look at the changes that were made this year and argue that Vermont should be added to that list.
 
Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

Puck Swami said:
I don't have the CC video. It was originally envisioned as a documentary about the DU/CC rivalry, but DU wasn't interested in paying development money for it, and so it became a CC-oriented project.
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I was joking about the CC video. It's a shame that DU didn't participate. The documentary is clearly about the rivalry. Without contributions from DU it seems kind of thrown together. It seemed like they just took the footage they had and produced it after DU wasn't on board. It's not really a CC documentary but more of an unfinished documentary about the CC / DU rivalry.

Gwoz has a short cameo where he talks about the 2005 frozen four. He thinks there would have been more of a climax if they had faced CC in the title game rather than earlier.

As WCHA fans know, 2005 was the all WCHA frozen four. Greatest frozen four of all time? Probably not, but I would read a thread dedicated to the topic.
 
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Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

Then there's the DU/Maine skate in the crease.

RPI's "Big Red Freakout" and theme games fall in the same category for me: a good marketing department. Nothing more. Theme games are done to get butts into seats. It could be argued that teams that DON'T do theme games and still get the attendance have the more rabid fans since they don't need some toy-in-the-cereal-box to entice them into going to a game.

While figuring out which fanbase is the most rabid, should chants be included, too? And should there be a difference made between chants only chanted by the student section (since they are expletive-filled filth) and those that include the rest of the fans in the building? Why not include the distances that fans drive to get to a game? Since the fanboys only have to ride a metro a few miles to Conte, they can't possibly be the rabid fans that drive a couple hours from The County to get to Alfond, right?

I suppose there are a million numbers you could find to calculate the "best fan base." But does anyone really want to suggest one with a straight face? You can nitpick the intricacies of the formulas that FS23 and whatshisface used for their compendiums, but can you really argue with their overall validity? No.

Stick to what you've got, FS23. It's good, it's fair, it's (reasonably) easily calculated and verified.
 
Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

FreshFish said:
The idea was to develop a metric for greatest 'program' that went beyond the active players; books in print was just a suggestion for the metric and not an end in itself.

.

If one assumes that Arcadia published these books with the expectation of making a profit, then one might further assume that Arcadia chose programs whose alumni, etc. would have enough 'critical mass' to purchase enough books to make the printing profitable.



Arcadia is one example of something OTHER THAN 'Omega University Press' which FS23 wanted to discount, and which I agreed.

There are other metrics beyond books; obviously my bias is now exposed since RPI would be the only program of which I am aware whose 'Big Red Freakout!' resulted in a rules change. In 1987, they gave out horns to everyone attending the game, and it caused so much noise that the NCAA implemented a rule change, restricting what kinds of items could be given out. Now that is a fervent fan base and that fervor should be recognized somehow in the metrics for a greatest 'program'.

Also, I attended Harvard and my progeny attends RPI, and any kind of points that RPI could squeeze out would put them at # 15 and Harvard at # 16 (you can tell I do not have fond memories of my Harvard days while my progeny really likes it at RPI).
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RPI has had not one but TWO NCAA rules created because of happenings at Houston Field House. When Ned Harkness's teams had very short benches, the band would "extend" the second intermission by playing the two alma maters right before the puck was dropped. That is why bands are only allowed to play this during an intermission or before/after a game.

Maybe that would move us above Clarkson. :D
 
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Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

Fighting Sioux 23 said:
#1 Michigan - 475.5292 Points
#2 North Dakota - 414.1636 Points
#3 Minnesota – 397.684 Points
#4 Boston University - 345.005 Points
#5 Wisconsin - 334.9305 Points
#6 Denver - 333.3811 Points
#7 Boston College - 303.0755 Points
#8 Michigan State - 231.4669 Points
#9 Maine - 167.5985 Points
#10 Michigan Tech - 156.0076 Points
#11 Lake Superior State - 153.5872 Points
#12 Cornell - 152.4499 Points
#13 Colorado College - 142.3592
#14 Clarkson - 124.5689 Points
#15 Harvard - 118.8879 Points
#16 Rensselaer - 98.2167 Points
#17 Bowling Green - 79.7674 Points
#18 Northern Michigan - 79.3272 Points
#19 New Hampshire - 77.4096 Points
#20 Minnesota Duluth - 66.5522 Points
#21 St. Lawrence - 64.6435 Points
#22 Providence - 37.9103 Points
#23 Miami - 36.9575 Points
#24 Dartmouth - 35.143 Points
#25 Notre Dame - 33.5788 Points
#26 Yale - 29.1241 Points
#27 Colgate - 27.7915 Points
#28 Northeastern - 24.5696 Points
#29 Brown - 18.3317 Points
#30 Ohio State - 17.0403 Points
#31 Vermont - 15.8285 Points
#32 St. Cloud State - 12.4129 Points
#33 Bemidji State - 11.4454 Points
#34 RIT - 8.1655 Points
#35 Ferris State - 7.8912 Points
#36 UMass Lowell - 7.1081 Points
#37 Niagara - 6.4381 Points
#38 Western Michigan - 5.3974 Points
#39 Princeton - 5.1729 Points
#40 Holy Cross - 4.8647 Points
#41 Alaska-Anchorage - 4.8361 Points
#42 Air Force - 4.1704 Points
#43 Quinnipiac - 3.8994 Points
#44 Mercyhurst - 3.468 Points
#45 Merrimack - 3.1402 Points
#46 Massachusetts - 3.0035 Points
#47 Alaska - 2.9892 Points
#48 Nebraska Omaha - 2.9092 Points
#49 Minnesota State - 2.3131 Points
#50 Alabama Huntsville - 1.9469 Points
#51 Army - 1.3604 Points
#52 Union - 0.6174 Points
#53 UConn - 0.1921 Points
#54 Sacred Heart - 0.1703 Points
#55 Bentley - .0279 Points
#56 Robert Morris - .0245 Points
#57 Canisius - .0205 Points
#58 American International - .0061 Points
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UPDATE:
Despite going through the numbers several times before I posted, upon double-checking the numbers to get them ready for the post-season update, I found three errors. I had incorrectly awarded Boston College a Frozen Four victory for their 3rd place finish in 1948. There was no 3rd place game in 1948. I also had incorrectly awarded Maine a 3rd place finish for their 1989 Tournament. Maine finished 4th. Finally, I had incorrectly awarded Colorado College with 3rd place finishes in 1949 and 1951, where they finished 4th. I have made the appropriate changes and double-checked again just to be sure.

What does this mean? Boston College and Maine maintain their positions, but their point totals are a bit lower. CC dropped to 13th position, and Michigan Tech, Lake Superior State and Cornell each jump up a spot. Michigan Tech is, for the time being, in the top 10. The changes are bolded in the list above.

I'll be updating the list after the Frozen Four to include the 2010-2011 season, but wanted to explain the error as soon as I found it and had it corrected and then double-checked to verify.
 
Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

komey1 said:
Your correction is appreciated.
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Your correction is greatly appreciated by Michigan Tech because not much else has gone well for us this season. Top 10 in poll of any kind... I guess we'll take it at this point. If we win our next four games, that should bump us up to #2 past UND, or at least earn us one heck of a party in Houghton. I might actually have to make my way over to Ralph for the 1st round as it might be my last excuse to see it "as built" before they strip it bare and leave a bland and PC green and black building.

I hope they change the name of the team to the Fighting Whiteys to honor my pilgrim settler heritage. I heard I get free season tickets if the team is named after my ancestors...
:-)
Ryan J
 
Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

Any possible way that RPI could have picked up 20.6 points this season to move ahead of Harvard on the all-time list?

(I know you said you'd update after the season, just getting a bit antsy).

Also, RPI is one school among several that really deserves bonus points for the quality of its fans and its Pep Band, no matter how you slice the metrics, they definitely should get points for these categories (as should certain other schools).
 
Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

FreshFish said:
Any possible way that RPI could have picked up 20.6 points this season to move ahead of Harvard on the all-time list?

(I know you said you'd update after the season, just getting a bit antsy).

Also, RPI is one school among several that really deserves bonus points for the quality of its fans and its Pep Band, no matter how you slice the metrics, they definitely should get points for these categories (as should certain other schools).
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Fan quality is way too subjective, so I don't think it would be a very good thing to measure in what FS23 seems to have developed to be an objective measure of the quality of each current NCAA D-I men's ice hockey program (although I don't agree with a certain school being ranked above us, but that's beside the point).
 
Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

FlagDUDE08 said:
Fan quality is way too subjective
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We had an extensive colloquy earlier in this thread regarding various objective metrics by which one could measure this elusive quality. The conclusion was that it would have been nice had that discussion occurred far earlier in the process as the formula was not going to be adjusted to include any of those metrics.
 
Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

FreshFish said:
We had an extensive colloquy earlier in this thread regarding various objective metrics by which one could measure this elusive quality. The conclusion was that it would have been nice had that discussion occurred far earlier in the process as the formula was not going to be adjusted to include any of those metrics.
Click to expand...

Do you have another book to promote or something?
 
Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

FreshFish said:
Any possible way that RPI could have picked up 20.6 points this season to move ahead of Harvard on the all-time list?

(I know you said you'd update after the season, just getting a bit antsy).

Also, RPI is one school among several that really deserves bonus points for the quality of its fans and its Pep Band, no matter how you slice the metrics, they definitely should get points for these categories (as should certain other schools).
Click to expand...

Unfortunately RPI did not pick up 20.6 points, and it doesn't look like they will move up in the rankings at the end of the season. Duluth or Notre Dame could be big winners though if they win the national title. Obviously Michigan will increase their lead if they win it all (or even if they just advance to the title game). I don't think North Dakota can catch Michigan, even if they win it all, but they can get pretty close.
 
Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

Fighting Sioux 23 said:
Unfortunately RPI did not pick up 20.6 points, and it doesn't look like they will move up in the rankings at the end of the season. Duluth or Notre Dame could be big winners though if they win the national title. Obviously Michigan will increase their lead if they win it all (or even if they just advance to the title game). I don't think North Dakota can catch Michigan, even if they win it all, but they can get pretty close.
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How much could one title for a non-titled school increase their points?
 
Runninwiththedogs said:
How much could one title for a non-titled school increase their points?
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There really isn't much of a difference for winning it all as a titled school than a non titled school, but if Duluth wins it all they could very well jump up 3-5 spots in the rankings. I haven't done the exact calculations but I think they would be very close to RPI with a title.
 
Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

Fighting Sioux 23 said:
There really isn't much of a difference for winning it all as a titled school than a non titled school, but if Duluth wins it all they could very well jump up 3-5 spots in the rankings. I haven't done the exact calculations but I think they would be very close to RPI with a title.
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Neat, thanks. LET'S GO BULLDOGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rhett said:
Excellent work.
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Hahah, love it.
 
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