The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

[ecbrevik]

Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

Oh, come on, you guys sucked, and you know it.

The final days of Gino's tenure were not among the best in UND's history.

 

[Biddco]

Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

If I spread rep around enough, I could give you another one. But in addition to a good read- I think the commentary is quite educational. A lot of it has to do with the beginning of NCAA hockey (abit, that means 1948, but that's ok), and I'm sure there will be some coaches included from the 60's and 70's. Lots of time where I knew little of college hockey (except that hometown OSU had a team, and dad's alma mater MTU had a team AND a school).

This is good stuff.

Even limted to American division I men's college hockey, limited to FS23's personal list...

Very educational indeed! I am learning my hockey history! Love it! I honestly didn't know Harvard had such a great history.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

Very educational indeed! I am learning my hockey history! Love it! I honestly didn't know Harvard had such a great history.

If you were a Gopher fan, you'd know all that needs to be known about that team.

 

[Happy]

Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

The final days of Gino's tenure were not among the best in UND's history.

Woogs last were very Lucia like, too.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

#20 Jack Kelley
Coached at Boston University from 1962-1972
Jack Kelley comes in at #20. There are some who consider Jack Kelley the Godfather of BU coaching. In his 10 seasons at the helm, BU had 8 winning seasons, and 4 trips to the Frozen Four. It was also Kelley that recruited Jack Parker to BU to play for the Terriers, and after Parker graduated in '68, Kelley gave Parker an assistant coaching position. Kelley's first two trips to the Frozen Four ended in disappointment, but in his final two seasons at BU, Kelley lead the Terriers to back to back National Championships. No team would accomplish that feat, until Minnesota did over 30 years later. BU had coaches before Jack Kelley, but nobody lead them to the top of the mountain. His protege hasn't done too bad for himself either.

Points: 105.32

 

[Proud2baLaker]

Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

Im follwing along and liking this thread...just one question FS23. When you post a new guy at the bottom of the post can you put like a running tally if you will of who has already been listed. I dont get to check the list often and have to go through looking to see who/what I missed. If its a dumb idea or too much work (it will make for a longer post I guess)...no big deal. Thanks!

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

Im follwing along and liking this thread...just one question FS23. When you post a new guy at the bottom of the post can you put like a running tally if you will of who has already been listed. I dont get to check the list often and have to go through looking to see who/what I missed. If its a dumb idea or too much work (it will make for a longer post I guess)...no big deal. Thanks!

#1
#2
#3
#4
#5
#6
#7
#8
#9
#10
#11
#12
#13
#14
#15
#16
#17
#18
#19
#20 Jack Kelley
#21 Doug Woog
#22 Dick Umile
#23 Bill Cleary
#24 Cheddy Thompson
#25 Barry Thorndycraft
Honorable Mention
Mike Eaves
Dave Hakstol
Scott Sandelin
Tim Whitehead
Enrico Blasi
Joe Marsh
Mike Schafer
Scotty Owens

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

#19 Rick Comley
Coached at Lake Superior State from 1973-1976
Coached at Northern Michigan from 1976-2002
Coached at Michigan State from 2002-2011
Rick Comley comes in at #19. He is the first, of what will be several, coaches that have coached at multiple institutions. Comley started out at LSSU, coaching three winning squads, but did not get to the NCAA Tournament. After his stint with the Lakers, Comley made his way across the UP to Northern Michigan. It was with the Wildcats that Comley would spend the majority of his career. In his 26 seasons with Northern, Comley led the Wildcats to 7 NCAA Tournaments, 3 Frozen Fours and the 1991 National Championship. The 1990-1991 Wildcats were one of the best teams ever (they rank #3 on my list) and cruised to the National Championship. After a long tenure at Northern, Comley made his way down to the LP and East Lansing as he took over the Spartans. In his 9 seasons at MSU, Comley made 4 trips to the NCAA tournament, and won the 2007 NCAA Tournament. Comley is aided by his long career (38 years) and the two national titles. Overall, Comley had 29 winnings seasons, 11 NCAA Tournaments, 4 Frozen Fours and 2 NCAA Titles. His 783 wins are good enough for 4th on this list. Also of note, his 615 losses are the most of anyone on this list.

Points: 121.65

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

#19 Rick Comley
#20 Jack Kelley
#21 Doug Woog
#22 Dick Umile
#23 Bill Cleary
#24 Cheddy Thompson
#25 Barry Thorndycraft

Honorable Mention:
Mike Eaves
Dave Hakstol
Scott Sandelin
Tim Whitehead
Enrico Blasi
Joe Marsh
Mike Schafer
Scotty Owens

Thanks to Shirtless Guy for starting this list off for me.

 

[HumRsky]

Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

I know this would have no bearing on these rankings, but it would appear that Comley won the 1974 NAIA National Championship with Lake State.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

I know this would have no bearing on these rankings, but it would appear that Comley won the 1974 NAIA National Championship with Lake State.

Along with the 1974 CCHA Regular Season Title.

 

[Sean Pickett]

Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

#20 Jack Kelley
Coached at Boston University from 1962-1972

#19 Rick Comley
Coached at Lake Superior State from 1973-1976
Coached at Northern Michigan from 1976-2002
Coached at Michigan State from 2002-2011
Rick Comley comes in at #19. He is the first, of what will be several, coaches that have coached at multiple institutions.

Jack Kelley also coached seven seasons at Colby College from 1955-62, going 89-51-5. During his tenure he upgraded the program to what would have been the DI level, if it had existed at the time.

Sean

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

Jack Kelley also coached seven seasons at Colby College from 1955-62, going 89-51-5. During his tenure he upgraded the program to what would have been the DI level, if it had existed at the time.

Sean

Thanks for including that. I had it included in my notes, but forgot to post. Kelley won an ECAC Regular Season title with Colby in the '61-'62 season.

 

[bothman]

Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

#22 Dick Umile
Coaches at New Hampshire from 1990-present
Dick Umile comes in at #22. Umile has been extremely consistent in his time at UNH. He has had only 1 losing season ('96) in his 21 years at the helm of the program. He should reach 500 wins next season, which would put him in a very exclusive club. In his 21 years at UNH, the Wildcats have made 17 trips to the NCAA Tournament going 13-17 in those games. Umile has led them to 4 Frozen Fours, advancing to the title game twice in '99 and '03. He has coached 28 All-Americans, 10 Hobey Baker Finalists and a Hobey Baker winner. Basically, the only thing left for Umile to accomplish is a National Title, something that he has in common with only two others in the top 25. If he stays around for awhile longer, and gets that elusive National Championship, Umile has a resume to move up on this list.

Points: 95.20

Having Dick Umile ahead of Billy Cleary is absolutely laughable - I could say the same thing about Doug Woog. The problem with your methodolgy is that it ignores the intangibles. So much of what Bill Cleary did transcended the game and can't be quantified like a Won-Loss record.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

Having Dick Umile ahead of Billy Cleary is absolutely laughable - I could say the same thing about Doug Woog. The problem with your methodolgy is that it ignores the intangibles. So much of what Bill Cleary did transcended the game and can't be quantified like a Won-Loss record.

By all means, come up with your own ranking system and post it here.

In my ranking, the two were extremely close, and it wasn't until this season that Umile overtook Cleary (by less than a half of a point), despite the fact that Umile has won more than 150 games than Cleary, has been to nearly twice as many NCAA Tournaments, and has coached 10 more All-Americans. Umile also has a better overall winning percentage, and their NCAA Tournament winning percentage is nearly identical.

Dick Umile took a program in New Hampshire that had been dormant for years, and turned them into a college hockey power. He's been voted by his peers in Hockey East as the best coach in the league 6 times, along with winning a Spencer Penrose National Coach of the Year in 1999. You can belittle Umile all you want, but the fact is, he has just as much of an argument to be where he is as Cleary.

The problem with your methodology is that you wear thick Crimson goggles. If Cleary had coached New Hampshire and Umile had coached Harvard, and the results were different you would be moaning about how great Umile was.

 

[HarleyMC]

Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

Having Dick Umile ahead of Billy Cleary is absolutely laughable - I could say the same thing about Doug Woog. The problem with your methodolgy is that it ignores the intangibles. So much of what Bill Cleary did transcended the game and can't be quantified like a Won-Loss record.

Your point is well taken but irrelevant, as FS23 is not attempting a qualitative research design. I would propose a mixed methodology for research like this to accurately inform important qualitative aspects of the study.

I would also add from a quantitative approach, that in this thread as well as the Greatest Programs of All Time, there are invariants, p-factors, purposeful sampling strategies, validity and reliability scales, etc. necessary in a study of this nature that cannot possibly be factored for two reasons: 1) the lack readily available thorough and credible extant data, and 2) the enormous time and expense of data collection and analysis. A more valid quantitative approach would require a thorough delineation of dependent, independent and invariant variables, and much more historical and experimental data beyond simply plugging in numbers into a formula which by design may have inherent selection bias.

However, in all fairness to FS23, I thoroughly understand the work that goes into a project like this and in no way would I want discourage him in his excellent hard work for all to enjoy.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

Your point is well taken but irrelevant, as FS23 is not attempting a qualitative research design. I would propose a mixed methodology for research like this to accurately inform important qualitative aspects of the study.

I would also add from a quantitative approach, that in this thread as well as the Greatest Programs of All Time, there are invariants, p-factors, purposeful sampling strategies, validity and reliability scales, etc. necessary in a study of this nature that cannot possibly be factored for two reasons: 1) the lack readily available thorough and credible extant data, and 2) the enormous time and expense of data collection and analysis. A more valid quantitative approach would require a thorough delineation of dependent, independent and invariant variables, and much more historical and experimental data beyond simply plugging in numbers into a formula which by design may have inherent selection bias.

However, in all fairness to FS23, I thoroughly understand the work that goes into a project like this and in no way would I want discourage him in his excellent hard work for all to enjoy.

Agreed. The problem with trying to rank "Well, he was such a good person" or "But, my guy shaped and inspired so many" is that every coach has inspired players. Unless we can go and interview each and everyone of the players coached by these men and try to come up with some understanding of how great an impact the coach had on their lives and then compare it to all of the other coaches, it is essentially a he said, she said contest. In the end, we would probably come to the conclusion that every coach had a great impact on their players. Those that coached more players would have an advantage over those that coached fewer, and at that point it would do best to include a longevity component into the formula.

I decided to go with looking at what these coaches accomplished on the ice, how they developed players into becoming better hockey players (not necessarily better people) and what their peers thought of their coaching abilities, and their contributions to the game in general.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

Half the fun of these things is coming up with a formula and then standing back to watch how everything shakes out. I doubt we've seen the last 'controversy' - but that's what makes these things worth watching.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

I decided to go with looking at what these coaches accomplished on the ice, how they developed players into becoming better hockey players (not necessarily better people) and what their peers thought of their coaching abilities, and their contributions to the game in general.

Now that I understand your formula better, I do see how a coach's ability to attract good quality players (recruiting involves some intangible elements) and teach them hockey skills is incorporated into your formula by including All-Americans and Hobey Baker top ten as a criteria.

One element that you might consider if you revisit and revise the formula in the future might be a 'coaching tree' -- which coaches were good at training other people to be good coaches (who perhaps in turn also were good at training even more people to be good coaches....). This is not a knock or a criticism, merely a suggestion, and it sounds like you already have the data on hand....

 

[alfablue]

Re: The Greatest Coaches of All-Time

Agreed. The problem with trying to rank "Well, he was such a good person" or "But, my guy shaped and inspired so many" is that every coach has inspired players. Unless we can go and interview each and everyone of the players coached by these men and try to come up with some understanding of how great an impact the coach had on their lives and then compare it to all of the other coaches, it is essentially a he said, she said contest. In the end, we would probably come to the conclusion that every coach had a great impact on their players. Those that coached more players would have an advantage over those that coached fewer, and at that point it would do best to include a longevity component into the formula.

I decided to go with looking at what these coaches accomplished on the ice, how they developed players into becoming better hockey players (not necessarily better people) and what their peers thought of their coaching abilities, and their contributions to the game in general.

On that note, as readers, we all have to be aware of putting on 1) school biased colored glasses, and 2) time period colored glasses. While I would love to put my schools modern record up as one of the best of the best, I also have to see that other schools in other periods have had better sucesses. A quantitative approach takes both a time and a school bias away from that, and very much allowes coaches from 2011 to compete with coaches from 1948, even as the game and the system has changed greatly over time.

One thing that I would like to bring up- the idea of being clutch as a coach. IMHO, winning playoff games is a strong example of that, and as far as I know, FS23's approach is to reward championships- league, tournament, or overall, so the reality is that IF a coach is clutch, really, then that will be reflected in their scoring.

So I really appreciate that this system has no obvious time or school bias built in.