The GQP Thread: I'm even sick of that fuck's number and, anyway, he's gone (for now)

[ScoobyDoo]

She either doesn’t recognize the threat, doesn’t care, or thinks Republicans will vote for her against a Republican again come 2024. She’s wrong, but she’ll fuck around and find out come then.

She doesn't care. She's already measuring the drapes for her next job.

 

[psych]

She doesn't care. She's already measuring the drapes for her next job.

I always thought just offering Manchin millions more for West Virginia would help get him on board. I was wrong, but I can understand his reticence, based on his state’s +35R lean. I think he’s fucked in 2024 regardless, but at least he’s trying to save his own skin. I would point to Tester in Montana as the antithesis of Joe Manchin, but whatever. Manchin ain’t changing.
Sinema? I can’t even explain the depths of disappointment I have for her. If she was Mark Kelly, the taxation plan would be much stronger in this bill. Manchin is to the fucking left of Sinema on taxes. Ridiculous.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

I always thought just offering Manchin millions more for West Virginia would help get him on board. I was wrong, but I can understand his reticence, based on his state’s +35R lean. I think he’s fucked in 2024 regardless, but at least he’s trying to save his own skin. I would point to Tester in Montana as the antithesis of Joe Manchin, but whatever. Manchin ain’t changing.
Sinema? I can’t even explain the depths of disappointment I have for her. If she was Mark Kelly, the taxation plan would be much stronger in this bill. Manchin is to the fucking left of Sinema on taxes. Ridiculous.

I do not understand the dynamic. Sinema is blowing a real shot she has of staying in the job and Manchin is blowing his legacy to keep a job he doesn't need in a State that doesn't care about him anymore. I don't get it.

 

[dxmnkd316]

There is no process as long as you coddle people like Manchin. As long as he and Sinema are there and have no fear the Titanic already hit the iceburg and we are all just moving chairs around.

Look any other time in history (short of the prelude to the Civil War) I 100% agree with you. Hell half the time I would argue it is GOOD nothing gets done because the Senate is just a clusterfuck of stupidity and Washington is completely out of touch. We aren't there anymore though even Biden has finally started to realize that. Committees don't matter if what they push forward have no chance to pass. Outside of some judges what has been accomplished? Nothing. What will be accomplished before the Midterms? Most likely nothing.

Manchin goes on every Sunday show and says crap that is so moronic it makes all our heads spin but he is the guy we need to lower the Party to? Then we do, he still burns us and we have to do it all over again? Democrats don't get it, they never get it. Just like they count on people like Susan Collins to "do the right thing" and then are shocked when she votes like a Republican. These people have shown us who they are...Manchin and Sinema are not on our side. They don't pretend to be anymore. There is no bribe that is worth more than what the lobbyists give them and no one even attempts to put any pressure on them to side with their party. So the people lose and all they think is "The Dems promised us everything, we got nothing...so why vote for them again?".

To play off a point Scooby mentioned...Manchin held Voting Rights hostage to work with Republicans. He negotiated, thought he was close and McConnell assassinated him on live TV over it saying not one Republican will vote for the watered down version Manchin negotiated with those Republicans. It was so brutal some in the Press thought that would be the lightbulb moment where he would wake up and realize this isn't working. Nope. Then the Nuclear Wing decided to blow up the one bill that did get negotiated (Infrastructure) and here we sit with what is likely a lame duck Dem control and the Fascists just smiling knowing their path has almost no road blocks anymore. But hey...we got that chair of Ways and Means and Intelligence!!

You seem to think America is better than what came before it. That we somehow won't make the same mistakes every great Republic/Empire made over the centuries. Problem is we already are making them/made them and our arrogance and naivete is so historically cliche predictable is too nice a word for it. At first I kind of started to agree with SJHovey that I was a bit too paranoid...then I had a conversation with my father who is an optimist and truly believed (until 4 months ago) the system will not allow for it all to fall apart. He now believes we are already too far down the road to Authoritarianism. History is filled this exact story all you need to do is pick an Empire and read about its downfall. Always strikingly similar the only difference is which side is responsible.

I will say it again I hope I am wrong. I hope you and unofan are right and that by protecting Manchin it is helping in some capacity. Nothing would make me happier than if next year you are throwing it in my face how misguided and stupid my line of thinking was. (cause that means the Dems held control and likely expanded it) The problem is history doesn't bear that out too often and considering half of Republicans and a third of Biden voters seem to want a divided country (not like we joke about...legit secession) we likely won't get another shot at this. We said when Biden got elected we have 4 years to fix as much of what is broken as we can. In 10 months we have fixed nothing long term and next year could get ugly even without the Elections. Right now I think the only thing that can save us is if the SC overturns Roe because that might be the final straw for all Dems. Even that might not do it though...please let me be wrong.

I ask again, what can democrats do differently?

you keep saying this isn't a wartime approach and we need to do something about it. What?

 

[Slap Shot]

Then I guess I don't understand the argument. Even if Dems were fighting tooth and nail right now for climate it wouldn't make any difference. Polling might matter a little come election time but it has nothing to do with what actually gets done in Congress. Even at the State level.

Fight for it come campaign time. jfc

 

[dxmnkd316]

I always thought just offering Manchin millions more for West Virginia would help get him on board. I was wrong, but I can understand his reticence, based on his state’s +35R lean. I think he’s fucked in 2024 regardless, but at least he’s trying to save his own skin. I would point to Tester in Montana as the antithesis of Joe Manchin, but whatever. Manchin ain’t changing.
Sinema? I can’t even explain the depths of disappointment I have for her. If she was Mark Kelly, the taxation plan would be much stronger in this bill. Manchin is to the fucking left of Sinema on taxes. Ridiculous.

I figured that was the case as well. It's always been enough.

i don't know what changed. It's almost like a personal vendetta at this point. I have to wonder if someone royally pissed him off or if he actually thinks he can fix politics.

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Roll your wheelchair off a cliff you shitstain

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1453090565558517766?s=21

 

[Handyman]

Except all politics isn’t local anymore. It’s been nationalized for nearly two decades now, at least for House/Senate races. Bernie Sanders basically told West Virginians in their newspaper that Manchin isn’t helping them, and Manchin told him to shut the fuck up. What’s happened since then? West Virginians vote GOP. They hate outstaters because outstaters think they’re dumbfuck fat redneck methheads. Democrats making Manchin the face of inaction in West Virginia would do absolutely fucking nothing to move the needle on Manchin voting “yes” on a larger reconciliation bill. In fact, it would do the opposite. When he says he knows his constituents better than us, he’s not wrong. Joe Manchin is not going to be cowed by Bernie Sanders or others telling him to vote for the bigger bill. Democrats offered him millions to switch coal plants over to clean energy plants, and provide money to those coal workers until they could start their jobs as renewable energy workers, etc. Manchin called it “welfare” and added an “oh, fuck you.” You think an educational video on how Manchin is wrong from elitist outstater intellectual a—holes is going to change their minds, much less Manchin’s? Please. There is no West Virginia Democratic apparatus anymore to even be effective at making that play.
Sinema’s numbers are dropping because Arizona is purple and has way more Democrats who are able to effectively recognize and relay the message that she’s a fucking piece of garbage than West Virginia does Manchin. She either doesn’t recognize the threat, doesn’t care, or thinks Republicans will vote for her against a Republican again come 2024. She’s wrong, but she’ll fuck around and find out come then.

Stop using Bernie as your example...he has zero power or authority and Manchin would get skewered listening to him. It's Schumer and Durbin who have to do it.

 

[Handyman]

That wasn't the argument being made I replied to.

They support climate help if it didn't hurt their bottom line. Most polling only asks if they think something should be done or rarely asks if they are willing to sacrifice to make it happen.

Plus the last 5 years have shown people just flat out lie to pollsters. I do appreciate your data though :^)

 

[Handyman]

Fight for it come campaign time. jfc

That won't work. Republican voters won't flip over Climate even if they support it. They will still vote straight ticket. Manchin and any Rust Belt Dem won't stick their neck out beyond platitudes either.

Climate won't move the needle in the current political environment sadly.

 

[Handyman]

I figured that was the case as well. It's always been enough.

i don't know what changed. It's almost like a personal vendetta at this point. I have to wonder if someone royally ****ed him off or if he actually thinks he can fix politics.

It's money.

 

[rufus]

It's money.

Always is.

 

[psych]

Stop using Bernie as your example...he has zero power or authority and Manchin would get skewered listening to him. It's Schumer and Durbin who have to do it.

You think Manchin wouldn’t get skewered listening to a New Yorker or Illinoisan? I’d be willing to bet Bernie Sanders is more popular in West Virginia than either one of them. Manchin is immune to a pressure campaign from any Democrat. Now, if Jim Justice had stayed a Democrat and pressured him? That might have worked.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Fight for it come campaign time. jfc

They did, and they have. It doesn't work. All you have to do is look at the polls in Virginia right now for Governor. And this is right after Biden won by 10. Democrats voted against Trump more than they voted for policy. The electorate at large is either checked out, or Republican at this point.

 

[psych]

They did, and they have. It doesn't work. All you have to do is look at the polls in Virginia right now for Governor. And this is right after Biden won by 10. Democrats voted against Trump more than they voted for policy. The electorate at large is either checked out, or Republican at this point.

The NRCC now has internal polling that shows swing districts prefer the GOP over Democrats in next year’s midterms. Insert all the caveats, but at this time in 2019, Democrats had what, nearly a double digit lead in generic congressional polling?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

The NRCC now has internal polling that shows swing districts prefer the GOP over Democrats in next year’s midterms. Insert all the caveats, but at this time in 2019, Democrats had what, nearly a double digit lead in generic congressional polling?

Exactly. This is the Obama presidency all over again. The Reconciliation Package is the new ACA. Get ready for 10 years of Republican rule.

 

[Handyman]

You think Manchin wouldn’t get skewered listening to a New Yorker or Illinoisan? I’d be willing to bet Bernie Sanders is more popular in West Virginia than either one of them. Manchin is immune to a pressure campaign from any Democrat. Now, if Jim Justice had stayed a Democrat and pressured him? That might have worked.

Bernie is a "Socialist" there is no chance anyone in WV likes him. They likely have no clue who Dick Durbin is let alone Schumer. They don't have the same profile as Bernie.

 

[Handyman]

Exactly. This is the Obama presidency all over again. The Reconciliation Package is the new ACA. Get ready for 10 years of Republican rule.

Except the ACA passed.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Except the ACA passed.

Oh, they'll pass something.

 

[psych]

Bernie is a "Socialist" there is no chance anyone in WV likes him. They likely have no clue who Dick Durbin is let alone Schumer. They don't have the same profile as Bernie.

Bernie Sanders is a populist white guy who had eventual Trump supporters vote for him. I think he’d be much more popular than either of those guys in West Virginia, but let’s say you’re right, since they might currently be unknowns in West Virginia. Once Schumer or Durbin start pressuring Manchin, who is going to define those two? Who in West Virginia, with any Democratic clout, will stand up for Chuck Schumer or Dick Durbin and say “These guys are right. Get your fucking act together Joe Manchin”? They’ll be defined negatively by the press and West Virginia political leaders as elitist liberal intellectuals who look down on West Virginians. They could even throw “socialist” in there for good measure. It would all backfire. Manchin knows this. Schumer knows this. Biden knows this or he would have shown up already, and/or signed off on more pressure campaigning.