The FIFA World Cup Thread (Spoilers Welcome)

[wildcatdc]

Re: The FIFA World Cup Thread (Spoilers Welcome)

Love the conversation.... Slightly different perspective here.... and an opinion I've had for a while....

To set some context... Looked out the window of my apartment down here 10 minutes ago, and here's what I saw:

- 2 teams of middle-agers like myself playing (loosely) organized five-a-side on a clay/dirt court, 2 condo buildings over
- a group of teens on the basketball court of the building right next door, playing pickup futsal with a size-4 ball
- directly below me on the tiny asphalt court in my complex, a bunch of ragtag preteens pretending to be Neymar, Hulk, and Oscar, arguing fouls and trying to outskill each other.

Lest anyone think this is some BS hallucinated Brasil version of a Rockwell scene, it happens EVERY night here. (Barra da Tijuca section of Rio)

And you know what? Nobody is practicing square passes. Not a single parent is around yelling for a through-ball. The notion of a planned one-two is non-existent. No overpaid suburban coach is admonishing the midfield for getting too flat.

What I'm saying is that PERHAPS we are overly structured. When we are drilling 5-year-olds, maybe we eliminate the possibility that these kids could ever feel free to create and learn to finish, the way Messi/Neymar/Ronaldo/etc. do. The kids here just lug the ball to the pitch (or sandlot, or street, or whatever), and try to out-Neymar each other. For hours. Every day. Without coaches, refs (sorry jimjamesak! ), or parents. The analogy I can draw is hoops at home, where kids will just go for hours, unsupervised, and forget fundamentals while they just enjoy the game.

I realize that there is a negative side to this. Scolari got the crap kicked out of him after the last match in Globo, the national newspaper, because he simply couldn't control his guys... There is absolutely an issue with the Brasil side this year in that they lack structure - too many individual players who don't spend enough time together on the pitch. That stated, my opinion is that we err on the other side.

I guess my conclusion is that until we reach a point where it becomes as commonplace for kids to play pickup soccer for hours, unencumbered by rules and adults, the way we played wiffleball/hoops/football as kids, we might continue to find ourselves unable to find the gems that can finish off set pieces or knock home gimmes in stoppage time.

I like to think that the tide is turning, though....


On another note - anyone looking forward to pillorying Wondo at MLS matches in the future should probably go pound sand. Or move to Colombia.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The FIFA World Cup Thread (Spoilers Welcome)

Walt Disney DIS -0.03% owned ESPN ’s telecast averaged a network record 9.8 rating with an average of 16.491 million viewers, making it the second-most watched men’s World Cup match on ESPN or ESPN2 behind only the 18.22 million that tuned in on a Sunday to watch the US take on Portugal that fell on a Sunday, according to Nielsen. ESPN’s television coverage peaked from 5:45 – 6 p.m. ET with a 14.1 rating.

On the Spanish-language Univision, the match pulled an additional 5.1 million viewers. When put together, the match which aired at 4pm ET on Thursday averaged 21.6 million viewers.

In terms of online, those using WatchESPN saw viewership peak at 1,500,000 concurrent viewers. Univision Digital saw recoord numbers with 1.8 million unique viewers for yesterday’s match.

No matter the Nielsen numbers, we may never know just how many watched the game as there were massive viewing parties in places like Chicago, and smaller gatherings in sports bars.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybr...t-tv-rating-ever-on-espn-for-world-cup-match/

The number for USA-Argentina on ABC on Saturday at Noon would have been phenomenal. What an opportunity unrealized...

 

[Kepler]

Re: The FIFA World Cup Thread (Spoilers Welcome)

In the 70's it was going to take off because of Pele.
In the 90's it was going to take off because of the World Cup.
It's supposed to take off in the 2010's because of EPL on TV in America.
Now we're already coming up with reasons why it will take off in 2030?

Hence the motto of MIB:

Men in Blazers is driven by the belief that Soccer is America’s Sport of the Future. As it has been since 1972.

But the whole point is it was never going to take off because of an event or even a team. It's the relentless uptick of youth leagues against other sports and the continuing browning of the country.

8 years ago I was one of two people in my office interested enough to even know the WC was happening. This year, everybody knew and 30% of the office already had kids playing. And this is among a demographic where NASCAR and "college" (read: southern) football dominate. People who ordinarily listen to Anne Coulter unironically.

It's almost purely an age split now. Nobody over 55 gets it, everybody under 35 does, and the middle demo is split. Even the herpa-derps have kids who are playing because their school districts have been priced out of equipment and insurance for other sports.

 

[joecct]

Re: The FIFA World Cup Thread (Spoilers Welcome)

I still prefer cricket - especially limited overs cricket.

 

[Jimjamesak]

I still prefer cricket - especially limited overs cricket.

Twenty20?

 

[Jimjamesak]

Re: The FIFA World Cup Thread (Spoilers Welcome)

#ThingsTimHowardCouldSave is fantastic.

 

[Patman]

Re: The FIFA World Cup Thread (Spoilers Welcome)

This. I think about this looking back at my participation in high school athletics. American football was (and still is) my favorite sport and stuck with that in high school for that reason. I played in in-house summer soccer leagues, and when I think about it, I should have went that direction, because I was a much better soccer player. If I had grown up with the opportunity to watch soccer, not just football, perhaps that decision would be different. I'm not delusional enough to think I would've made the national team, but there are probably some kids out there that played football, or other sports, in high school, then gave up on athletics, but would've found their calling if they were exposed to soccer. We're a lot more likely to snag those kids these days.

oddly enough, and as screwed up as my hometown is about athletes and being on the football team, I have to wonder if I wouldn't have been better served playing football... mostly because the coaches would have made **** sure my *** got into shape.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Re: The FIFA World Cup Thread (Spoilers Welcome)

Love the conversation.... Slightly different perspective here.... and an opinion I've had for a while....

To set some context... Looked out the window of my apartment down here 10 minutes ago, and here's what I saw:

- 2 teams of middle-agers like myself playing (loosely) organized five-a-side on a clay/dirt court, 2 condo buildings over
- a group of teens on the basketball court of the building right next door, playing pickup futsal with a size-4 ball
- directly below me on the tiny asphalt court in my complex, a bunch of ragtag preteens pretending to be Neymar, Hulk, and Oscar, arguing fouls and trying to outskill each other.

Lest anyone think this is some BS hallucinated Brasil version of a Rockwell scene, it happens EVERY night here. (Barra da Tijuca section of Rio)

And you know what? Nobody is practicing square passes. Not a single parent is around yelling for a through-ball. The notion of a planned one-two is non-existent. No overpaid suburban coach is admonishing the midfield for getting too flat.

What I'm saying is that PERHAPS we are overly structured. When we are drilling 5-year-olds, maybe we eliminate the possibility that these kids could ever feel free to create and learn to finish, the way Messi/Neymar/Ronaldo/etc. do. The kids here just lug the ball to the pitch (or sandlot, or street, or whatever), and try to out-Neymar each other. For hours. Every day. Without coaches, refs (sorry jimjamesak! ), or parents. The analogy I can draw is hoops at home, where kids will just go for hours, unsupervised, and forget fundamentals while they just enjoy the game.

I realize that there is a negative side to this. Scolari got the crap kicked out of him after the last match in Globo, the national newspaper, because he simply couldn't control his guys... There is absolutely an issue with the Brasil side this year in that they lack structure - too many individual players who don't spend enough time together on the pitch. That stated, my opinion is that we err on the other side.

I guess my conclusion is that until we reach a point where it becomes as commonplace for kids to play pickup soccer for hours, unencumbered by rules and adults, the way we played wiffleball/hoops/football as kids, we might continue to find ourselves unable to find the gems that can finish off set pieces or knock home gimmes in stoppage time.

I like to think that the tide is turning, though....


On another note - anyone looking forward to pillorying Wondo at MLS matches in the future should probably go pound sand. Or move to Colombia.

There's a lot of what you're suggesting going on right now. My daughter is 5 and plays organized soccer but it's really just a little bit of teaching basics and then letting them run around just keeping the ball somewhat in play. Typically kids don't start playing actual organized, structure soccer until 8-9 years old. And even I think that's way too early.

The biggest thing that's changing is the amount of games kids are playing. Growing up playing soccer in my age was travelling a lot to tournaments, tournament after tournament, not much practice. Well the US Soccer Development Academy system standards actually limit the amount of games they can play and they have to have a certain number of practice hours as well.

The biggest change is coaches though. I've dealt with this reffing at the competitve youth regional level. Coaches that care waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more about winning and a paycheck than actually developing skills players need to succeed at a high level. Whereas now, MLS Youth Systems are free and kids can play in Reserve League games against pros instead of being shipped from tournament to tournament to win trophies to boost a coaches rep.

 

[Patman]

Re: The FIFA World Cup Thread (Spoilers Welcome)

Hence the motto of MIB:



But the whole point is it was never going to take off because of an event or even a team. It's the relentless uptick of youth leagues against other sports and the continuing browning of the country.

8 years ago I was one of two people in my office interested enough to even know the WC was happening. This year, everybody knew and 30% of the office already had kids playing. And this is among a demographic where NASCAR and "college" (read: southern) football dominate. People who ordinarily listen to Anne Coulter unironically.

It's almost purely an age split now. Nobody over 55 gets it, everybody under 35 does, and the middle demo is split. Even the herpa-derps have kids who are playing because their school districts have been priced out of equipment and insurance for other sports.

We get it, you hate your co-workers

----

Twenty20 or any other form of cricket won't catch on... cricket is interesting in its different but its still a tantric game. Best as background noise, not a game to sit and watch

----

wildcat... I've heard the comment that at a certain age level they should just play... drills are fine (I HATED cones) as long as they are developing skills. The rest with players are the egos that come with... that's a lot more about the culture around people. Very few world class talents weren't the best in their neighborhood or their city (this obviously scales) growing up. Set plays, other dedicated tactics later... probably for an age where they start to learn how/why they work... 12 or 13? edit: that being said... simpler smaller stuff is fine... playing in a reasonable formation... being asked to push up or push back

Of course, in South America I would think a factor is that there's a rush to develop as somebody has made a specific investment. Not quite in Africa where it quite literally becomes human trafficking... but nonetheless. Hockey, in the last couple of decades, has done a phenomenal job thinning out the ego kids. I don't know if it's that they're turned away or if the behaviors just aren't developing. The countries with a lot of ego-based play may want to look into that... I'm not worried about it in the US quite yet.

 

[manurespreader]

Re: The FIFA World Cup Thread (Spoilers Welcome)

IMHO our problem is coaching primarily and also the structure we put in. We put tho same structure in baseball, football, basketball etc. So kids show up to practice but other than that don't play enough to learn to be creative. when they show up the coach is about physical conditioning primarily, ( even at the D1 college level) because he knows that means winning a lot of the time, and he doesn't know how to teach them anyway. I think even at the WC this year, our players learned and developed, due to Klinnsman's presence.
So until we get more qualified coaches at the youth level, we are going to struggle with positions that require a lot of creativity. IE striker.

Otherwise great to see so many youth players and so much interest. I lost my voice for two days after the first game, which I watched at a packed bar in Sacramento.

 

[joecct]

Twenty20?

If I had to rank my preferences
1. Twenty20 (T20)
2. One day internationals (ODI's)
3. Test

 

[Spartanforlife4]

Re: The FIFA World Cup Thread (Spoilers Welcome)

Reminder to anyone in the pick-em group to get your picks in by noon tomorrow. Or at least the noon game.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Re: The FIFA World Cup Thread (Spoilers Welcome)

The knives are starting to come out against Klinsmann in the media and the internet and I just don't get it. And some people, it seems, are still butthurt over Landon! I don't get it.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The FIFA World Cup Thread (Spoilers Welcome)

What may happen is not that our best athletes are in the NFL... which is true to a degree... but rather they played college level in a sport they loved but didn't match their talents. Some Div III tailback who never really cared to kick a ball around... but so it goes.

This is true...I know a guy like Adam Pohlman isn't probably ever going to play for the US national team but the guy was all-state in Wisconsin and made the all-american list...had a free ride to Marquette but loves basketball and chose to go to Northern Michigan to continue to play basketball over soccer.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The FIFA World Cup Thread (Spoilers Welcome)

As for the projected 2018 world cup roster and future players for USA, Soccer Morning spend almost the entire episode today talking to two guys from http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/

It was a great listen, they talked about a ton of dual national guys and a bunch of guys already involved in MLS/USA Soccer at U18, U20, U23, etc.

Bunch of the dual guys they mentioned:
Darlington Nagbe, Diego Fagúndez, Gedion Zelalem, Kekuta Manneh

 

[Kepler]

Re: The FIFA World Cup Thread (Spoilers Welcome)

herp derp

In other news, this is great.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The FIFA World Cup Thread (Spoilers Welcome)

The knives are starting to come out against Klinsmann in the media and the internet and I just don't get it. And some people, it seems, are still butthurt over Landon! I don't get it.

I don't get it either. I wanted Landon, but the guy who (arguably) took his spot on the roster scored a goal on his first touch ever at the World Cup. Hard to argue with that. It seemed to me that every button JK pushed before and during this tournament worked. In the cases where he can be second-guessed, it isn't like he did something so radical to open himself up. Every decision he made had a solid reason behind it, that even if you disagreed you could at least understand it. He has articulated a vision for US Soccer, implemented it and I believe has had success with it. Why on earth would anyone want to change now? More to the point - who does anyone think could do a better job than JK has done?

 

[Jimjamesak]

I don't get it either. I wanted Landon, but the guy who (arguably) took his spot on the roster scored a goal on his first touch ever at the World Cup. Hard to argue with that. It seemed to me that every button JK pushed before and during this tournament worked. In the cases where he can be second-guessed, it isn't like he did something so radical to open himself up. Every decision he made had a solid reason behind it, that even if you disagreed you could at least understand it. He has articulated a vision for US Soccer, implemented it and I believe has had success with it. Why on earth would anyone want to change now? More to the point - who does anyone think could do a better job than JK has done?

The thing now is that Landon is speaking out in the press saying things like "the 2002 team was better" and "Jurgen should've gone for it and used an attacking formation against Belgium." And the media seems to be jumping on it.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The FIFA World Cup Thread (Spoilers Welcome)

The thing now is that Landon is speaking out in the press saying things like "the 2002 team was better" and "Jurgen should've gone for it and used an attacking formation against Belgium." And the media seems to be jumping on it.

Granted, I'm not the soccer expert others are, but I thought we did use an attacking formation vs Belgium.

 

[jmh]

Re: The FIFA World Cup Thread (Spoilers Welcome)

Granted, I'm not the soccer expert others are, but I thought we did use an attacking formation vs Belgium.

I'm not saying I agree with this, but I would guess those who think we should've used a more attacking formation would say we should've started with a pure striker (Wondo or Aron) instead of Cameron, playing in front of Dempsey.