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The end of leagues as we know?

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Re: The end of leagues as we know?

This conference just makes no sense. Anyone with half a brain can see that revenue for the teams will not change in any significant way, and expenditures will be drastically increased.

Only Miami and Western could make an argument for *maybe* seeing an uptick in revenue due to a better attended conference tournament (pure speculation based upon the assumption that the CCHA is going to be in rough shape once the BT teams leave) and more loyal attendance to regular season home games. But, considering Miami's arena only holds 3,600 those gains would be modest at best. At any rate, it could be strongly argued that Miami would be just as well off, if not better off, by simply joining the existing WCHA. Then again, neither Miami nor Western are the ones pushing for this new conference.

As for UMD and UNO, you have to think they are risking the recent rise in success of their programs by joining a league where they could very realistically become perennial cellar-dwellers. CC is another team that could find itself repeatedly finishing bottom half and being on the outside of the NCAA bubble.
UMD will also be leaving a conference with 3 instate rivals and an additional, traditional and close-by Lake Superior rival.
It appears that these 3 programs would go along with DU and UND not because the want to split off, but because they more or less have a gun to their heads.

And the 2 teams that seem to really be pushing for this league, DU and UND...

- Increased attendance to games doesn't seem to be realistic. All of DU's rivals are already in the WCHA. Replacing numerous conference series for 1 conference series against Miami (2 at best if somehow Notre Dame agrees to join the league) and a bunch of non-conference series isn't going to increase gate revenue. Conference games nearly always draw better than non-conference games.
UND is going to have near sell-outs regardless of which league they play in.

- A pipe dream about putting together a lucrative national TV deal doesn't add up. None of the teams in this league (with the exception of the uncommitted Notre Dame) have the name recognition or the alumni base to make such a deal viable. Rather, working within the WCHA to broker a more regionally-based deal seems to be far more realistic. FSN-North will have a great deal of new air-time to fill on Friday and Saturday nights, and there are a number of local teams playing in the WCHA that would garner the local interest to justify putting those games on air (think NESN for Hockey East). As is the case now, those FSN broadcasts can be picked up by a variety of other FSN regional channels. Other regional outlets would also be possibilities for getting games on the air. Far more than trying to strike a deal with a national broadcaster. Even with rumors about Vs. being interested in adding college hockey, how much more money will be generated from a deal with a station that the vast majority of television viewers don't even know exists? Will it be enough for UND to cover all the additional airfare associated with this new league?

- Conference tournament revenue is not going to outpace what could be accrued for a WCHA tournament held in a location within reasonable driving distance to numerous teams within the league.

Ultimately, this push by DU and UND appears to be in reaction to a fear that they will not be able to continue attracting high-end recruits in a WCHA that does not include Minnesota and Wisconsin; and that they will eventually slip to become mediocre hockey programs inferior to the Hockey East and Big Ten powers.

Not only does that view seem far too reactionary to me, but it is incredibly petty for fans of these programs to trash the programs left behind for "not doing enough to be able stand on their own." DU and UND are worried about their own programs falling to the point where they will be in the same boat.

That fear seems highly unrealistic to me. So again, I say this league makes no sense.
 
Re: The end of leagues as we know?

In other words, looking out for their own best interests instead of worrying about collateral damage to the little guys?
Miami and Notre Dame were leaving the CCHA regardless of what the WCHA did, they were either going to this stupid super conference or wcha or Hockey East. Notre Dame wasn't staying and if Notre Dame wasn't staying neither was Miami.
 
Re: The end of leagues as we know?

He's beating the same drum that everyone has been pounding ad nauseum for days. To blame MTU, SCSU, etc. for the WCHA folding is obviously ridiculous. First, his conjecture didn't actually happen. Second, the CCHA was trashed as soon as they lost their three best teams to the B10 (the WCHA lost two middle-of-the-pack also-rans, to no great effect). ND and Miami weren't staying, no matter what. So now instead of one, two conferences are being destroyed.

Yes Wisconsin and Minnesota haven't been very succesful lately (especially the Gophers...the Badgers just won an NCAA Title a couple years ago), but they're a draw regardless of their record.
 
Re: The end of leagues as we know?

He's beating the same drum that everyone has been pounding ad nauseum for days. To blame MTU, SCSU, etc. for the WCHA folding is obviously ridiculous. First, his conjecture didn't actually happen. Second, the CCHA was trashed as soon as they lost their three best teams to the B10 (the WCHA lost two middle-of-the-pack also-rans, to no great effect). ND and Miami weren't staying, no matter what. So now instead of one, two conferences are being destroyed.

Take a look at attendance numbers and state the bolded part with a straight face.:rolleyes:
 
Re: The end of leagues as we know?

... his conjecture didn't actually happen. ...

What conjecture? BSU, UAA, SCSU, MSU-M, and MTU all voted to poach NDU and MoOH from the CCHA. That's on record.

... Second, the CCHA was trashed as soon as they lost their three best teams to the B10 (the WCHA lost two middle-of-the-pack also-rans, to no great effect).

So the CCHA was irreparably harmed by the loss of the BT schools but the WCHA would be just fine? "You can't be serious!" - John McEnroe

The BT started this action. It's just domino effect from there.
 
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Re: The end of leagues as we know?

Take a look at attendance numbers and state the bolded part with a straight face.:rolleyes:

I was talking about how good the hockey teams are, not how many fans they have. The WCHA could have done just fine without them. The CCHA losing their three best hockey teams is another story.
 
Re: The end of leagues as we know?

I was talking about how good the hockey teams are, not how many fans they have. The WCHA could have done just fine without them. The CCHA losing their three best hockey teams is another story.

False. DU is one of the WCHA's best teams. If the WCHA only lost them the league would be fine because no one cares about Denver...except UND because of all the broken necks and such. The Badgers and Gophers could be dead last and they'd still draw money.
 
Re: The end of leagues as we know?

I was talking about how good the hockey teams are, not how many fans they have. The WCHA could have done just fine without them. The CCHA losing their three best hockey teams is another story.

I wouldnt say the CCHA lost its three best teams. Clearly Michigan was the top of the CCHA year in and year out. But MSU and tOSU? Far from the top in the CCHA, in terms of the product on the ice.
 
Re: The end of leagues as we know?

(the WCHA lost two middle-of-the-pack also-rans, to no great effect).

With the possible exception of Michigan or BC, those two schools are the most sought after pair for conference affiliations in the country.
 
Re: The end of leagues as we know?

I was talking about how good the hockey teams are, not how many fans they have. The WCHA could have done just fine without them. The CCHA losing their three best hockey teams is another story.

Michigan State and Ohio State finished 9th and 10th out of 11 last year. Hardly among the three best...not even among the 8 best in the CCHA!
 
Re: The end of leagues as we know?

I wouldnt say the CCHA lost its three best teams. Clearly Michigan was the top of the CCHA year in and year out. But MSU and tOSU? Far from the top in the CCHA, in terms of the product on the ice.

..perhaps the CCHA and WCHA were in more similar situation after the B1G than I imagined. This whole mess a crying shame. I think not enough people have emailed Gwozdecky yet. His responses are still surprisingly civil.
 
Re: The end of leagues as we know?

What people are forgetting is that the product on the ice doesn't effing matter. Minnesota has sucked for years now, but they have made the most money over that time regardless. Plus, as people have mentioned, the arena is usually full when they are on the road.
 
Re: The end of leagues as we know?

He's beating the same drum that everyone has been pounding ad nauseum for days. To blame MTU, SCSU, etc. for the WCHA folding is obviously ridiculous. First, his conjecture didn't actually happen. Second, the CCHA was trashed as soon as they lost their three best teams to the B10 (the WCHA lost two middle-of-the-pack also-rans, to no great effect). ND and Miami weren't staying, no matter what. So now instead of one, two conferences are being destroyed.


First of all, I haven't seen that argument made, but I believe I joined this thread about page 25, so maybe I missed "everyone" beating that drum. Also, I never blamed those teams for the WCHA folding.

Second, attempted murder (actually it would be more along the lines of manslaughter) of small college programs is still a crime against college hockey.

Many small school fans are complaining about people making decisions without regard to their personal small schools survival. The problem comes in when those same fans' schools were trying to do the exact same thing.

How about taking a principled stand? We can't vote for this because we could envision ourselves in Ferris State's shoes. No?

So explain exactly how you are different than DU, UND or UW. The fact that your school ultimately failed doesn't absolve them from what they were trying.
 
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Re: The end of leagues as we know?

This conference just makes no sense. Anyone with half a brain can see that revenue for the teams will not change in any significant way, and expenditures will be drastically increased.

Only Miami and Western could make an argument for *maybe* seeing an uptick in revenue due to a better attended conference tournament (pure speculation based upon the assumption that the CCHA is going to be in rough shape once the BT teams leave) and more loyal attendance to regular season home games. But, considering Miami's arena only holds 3,600 those gains would be modest at best. At any rate, it could be strongly argued that Miami would be just as well off, if not better off, by simply joining the existing WCHA. Then again, neither Miami nor Western are the ones pushing for this new conference.

As for UMD and UNO, you have to think they are risking the recent rise in success of their programs by joining a league where they could very realistically become perennial cellar-dwellers. CC is another team that could find itself repeatedly finishing bottom half and being on the outside of the NCAA bubble.
UMD will also be leaving a conference with 3 instate rivals and an additional, traditional and close-by Lake Superior rival.
It appears that these 3 programs would go along with DU and UND not because the want to split off, but because they more or less have a gun to their heads.

And the 2 teams that seem to really be pushing for this league, DU and UND...

- Increased attendance to games doesn't seem to be realistic. All of DU's rivals are already in the WCHA. Replacing numerous conference series for 1 conference series against Miami (2 at best if somehow Notre Dame agrees to join the league) and a bunch of non-conference series isn't going to increase gate revenue. Conference games nearly always draw better than non-conference games.
UND is going to have near sell-outs regardless of which league they play in.

- A pipe dream about putting together a lucrative national TV deal doesn't add up. None of the teams in this league (with the exception of the uncommitted Notre Dame) have the name recognition or the alumni base to make such a deal viable. Rather, working within the WCHA to broker a more regionally-based deal seems to be far more realistic. FSN-North will have a great deal of new air-time to fill on Friday and Saturday nights, and there are a number of local teams playing in the WCHA that would garner the local interest to justify putting those games on air (think NESN for Hockey East). As is the case now, those FSN broadcasts can be picked up by a variety of other FSN regional channels. Other regional outlets would also be possibilities for getting games on the air. Far more than trying to strike a deal with a national broadcaster. Even with rumors about Vs. being interested in adding college hockey, how much more money will be generated from a deal with a station that the vast majority of television viewers don't even know exists? Will it be enough for UND to cover all the additional airfare associated with this new league?

- Conference tournament revenue is not going to outpace what could be accrued for a WCHA tournament held in a location within reasonable driving distance to numerous teams within the league.

Ultimately, this push by DU and UND appears to be in reaction to a fear that they will not be able to continue attracting high-end recruits in a WCHA that does not include Minnesota and Wisconsin; and that they will eventually slip to become mediocre hockey programs inferior to the Hockey East and Big Ten powers.

Not only does that view seem far too reactionary to me, but it is incredibly petty for fans of these programs to trash the programs left behind for "not doing enough to be able stand on their own." DU and UND are worried about their own programs falling to the point where they will be in the same boat.

That fear seems highly unrealistic to me. So again, I say this league makes no sense.

Easily top 5 post in this thread and probably #1. Well said.
 
Re: The end of leagues as we know?

This conference just makes no sense.

Then again, neither Miami nor Western are the ones pushing for this new conference.

As for UMD and UNO, you have to think they are risking the recent rise in success of their programs by joining a league where they could very realistically become perennial cellar-dwellers. CC is another team that could find itself repeatedly finishing bottom half and being on the outside of the NCAA bubble..
Just a few points.

Miami pushed hard for this --- Its in one of the newspaper articles. Miami's attendance in a decimated CCHA would of taken a massive hit to a program that just shelled out $40+ million for a new arena. This was a no-brainer for them.

UNO was drawing 8,000 towards the end of last season. Their fans have proven that they'll back a winner and they want to see name brand opponents. Omaha is a wealthy city and there's no reason that they won't draw the second biggest crowds in the Super League in due time. Most important, Omaha is in the heart of USHL country. Super League teams will be using Omaha trips as de facto recruiting visits.

CC - Fanbase are not alums or people tied to the school. CC had had to drop ticket prices despite successful seasons lately because the WCHA had become too watered down. Give Springs residents name brand opponents and a few wins and it will re-energize the program. They will see an uptick in attendance.

UMD - awesome new arena & NC Banner. Say no more.

DU & UND - Want to be national powers with NHL draftees.
 
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Re: The end of leagues as we know?

People seem to be forgetting something really important here the WCHA and more importantly the BHHC will lose the Twin Cities market. How many Twin Cities kids will get to see UND, DU etc? Not many their eyeballs are gone! On the other hand they will see the BTN showcasing its members.
 
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