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The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

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Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

St. Clown said:
Pregnant woman is told by her doctor that the fetus is growing [somehow medically dangerous] and will kill the mother [and perhaps the baby] if she doesn't have it aborted. Is that permitted under your self-defense clause?
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First off, there's nothing Biblical about my self defense position. I believe that the length of a time person is on earth should be determined by God. (I am also an against capital punishment. I have a hard time understanding how so many conservatives can say "save the baby" but "kill the crook", but I digress....) In your case the mom should live. I don't want to give the impression this is an easy decision me for, I type with a heavy heart because it goes against what I said in the first sentence, but as I sit here and think of my wonderful (understatement) wife, it's the less flawed of the options. If this happened to me and my wife, naturally we'd be very sorry, ask for God's forgiveness (and because we are truly repentant, we would receive it) and if it was at all probable the same thing would happen again if she got pregnant, we'd ensure that a future pregnancy would not be possible. I fully understand those who would say "let's God's will be done" and let whatever is going to happen naturally happen, and as much as I want to throw my hat into that ring, I cannot, I can't I go that route. Blast me if you may for going against my own position, but I'm just being honest with you all on a scenario that will never happen to the wife and I. I guess you win, St. Clown.

geezer said:
Thank you! The circumstances of her conception do not determine a person's value (or absence thereof).
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AMEN.
 
Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

Timothy A said:
First off, there's nothing Biblical about my self defense position. I believe that the length of a time person is on earth should be determined by God. (I am also an against capital punishment. I have a hard time understanding how so many conservatives can say "save the baby" but "kill the crook", but I digress....) In your case the mom should live. I don't want to give the impression this is an easy decision me for, I type with a heavy heart because it goes against what I said in the first sentence, but as I sit here and think of my wonderful (understatement) wife, it's the less flawed of the options. If this happened to me and my wife, naturally we'd be very sorry, ask for God's forgiveness (and because we are truly repentant, we would receive it) and if it was at all probable the same thing would happen again if she got pregnant, we'd ensure that a future pregnancy would not be possible. I fully understand those who would say "let's God's will be done" and let whatever is going to happen naturally happen, and as much as I want to throw my hat into that ring, I cannot, I can't I go that route. Blast me if you may for going against my own position, but I'm just being honest with you all on a scenario that will never happen to the wife and I. I guess you win, St. Clown.
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Makes sense. Many tend to position/assume that Christians are black or white. Perhaps the loudest are. But then again those heard most in every movement are. For example, everyone knows by now who Bernie Sanders is...and its not because he's taking a nuanced stance.

From what I know of the Gospels, these are not clear cut issues. How is telling someone that they must go through an act that threatens their life aligned with the golden rule? IMO Jesus' often emphatic positions such as the golden rule are designed to get us to use them subconsciously in smaller clear cut situations...rather than to force these positions in situations bound to result in significant collateral damage. This 'understanding' position aligns with the sympathetic character He continuously displays.
 
5mn_Major said:
Makes sense. Many tend to position/assume that Christians are black or white. Perhaps the loudest are. But then again those heard most in every movement are. For example, everyone knows by now who Bernie Sanders is...and its not because he's taking a nuanced stance.

From what I know of the Gospels, these are not clear cut issues. How is telling someone that they must go through an act that threatens their life aligned with the golden rule? IMO Jesus' often emphatic positions such as the golden rule are designed to get us to use them subconsciously in smaller clear cut situations...rather than to force these positions in situations bound to result in significant collateral damage. This 'understanding' position aligns with the sympathetic character He continuously displays.
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Central to me seems "Your sins are forgiven. Go and sin no more."

And He hated hypocrites.
 
Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

By modern standards, the Prophet Jeremiah was guilty of hate speech.
 
Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

Kepler said:
Makes more sense. They are the ones who create life.

Here's a quick test of whether a person has any conception of spirituality beyond "my god can beat up your god." If they think their deity has gender, they don't.
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I wouldn't say that. The Olympians and Norse gods all had genders, and toyed with humans based upon gender roles, both as objects of desire and their wrath. I'm sure that stands true for many polytheistic religions where their dieties were assigned human forms with the accompanying desires and flaws.
 
Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

St. Clown said:
I wouldn't say that. The Olympians and Norse gods all had genders, and toyed with humans based upon gender roles, both as objects of desire and their wrath. I'm sure that stands true for many polytheistic religions where their dieties were assigned human forms with the accompanying desires and flaws.
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I'll allow it. Would that more people realized the essential sameness of all faiths.
 
Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

Just read American Gods. Good read, wrong thread.
 
Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

Timothy A said:
...I believe that the length of a time person is on earth should be determined by God...
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I'm off the abortion topic this was posted under, but I don't understand this line of thinking at all. If there is a god, it is pretty clear to me that it does not give a crap if humans live or die. If it is all determined by god, then why bother with modern medicine? Or why bother exercising or eating healthy? If you got cancer, god must want you to die, so why bother getting treatment?
 
Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?

BassAle said:
I'm off the abortion topic this was posted under, but I don't understand this line of thinking at all. If there is a god, it is pretty clear to me that it does not give a crap if humans live or die. If it is all determined by god, then why bother with modern medicine? Or why bother exercising or eating healthy? If you got cancer, god must want you to die, so why bother getting treatment?
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Guessing its is a wording issue. A common Christian stance is that a person's time on earth should not be determined by other men.
 
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