MinnesotaNorthStar
Minding the gap
Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?
I knew there would be something I'd agree with you on today.
USCHO Fan Forum
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.
The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?
- Thread starter FlagDUDE08
- Start date
- Status
P
Priceless
Guest
Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?
Detente!
I knew there would be something I'd agree with you on today.
Detente!
Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?
Fratricide's death penalty verdict stirs up a few thoughts....
Generally, I am not "in favor" of a death "penalty": in this case, I would not oppose it.
the rest of this post is tl;dr
My attitude toward a death penalty was shaped when I read The Fellowship of the Rings in 6th grade. Frodo says Gollum deserves death, and Gandalf replies, "Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment." Mock the source all you want, the gist of the message made a 12-yr old stop and think.
Let's say that the "redemption rate" of people who "deserve death" is about 5% to 10%. Is that alone enough to justify keeping the other 90% - 95% alive?
Well, I'm not completely opposed to putting people to death, it's more that in those situations, it would not be a death penalty:
-- deliberate murder of a police officer -- let's be honest and just call it revenge. "Eye for an eye" "Law of the Jungle" "Speak to anyone so depraved as deliberately to kill a cop in the only language he'll understand" frame it however you like, it's not a "penalty," it's a deterrent.
-- another, related situation to above. A person deliberately kills a cop, he'll kill a prison guard too. it's not fair to ask anyone to put themselves in that kind of danger. Kill the killer as a public safety measure instead. This situation extends to "Hannibal Lector" in real life. It's sort of like anti-bodies in action: just like our immune system has to kill off cancerous cells to keep the body healthy, in some situations society has to kill off the most dangerous and depraved among us to maintain the health and well-being of the rest of us.
-- that being said, very very few people fit that category. I have deliberately cast these concepts in repulsive terms to indicate how infrequently they would apply. Only people outside the realm of this revulsion deserve death. Anyone who knowingly and deliberately sets a ball-bearing filled pressure cooker bomb next to a child, I wouldn't oppose others' votes to apply that standard here.
-- on the other hand, there are cases of redemption, of people who "saw the light" and changed their ways and became positive contributors to society. There are plenty of examples to cite.
-- in a fantasy world, while serving time on death row, Fratricide will come to realize that, even if he were under the influence of his brother Speedbump, he still should have known better than to put a bomb down on the ground next to a child. He'd say, "I'm sorry, I was wrong." and then devote the rest of his life, while it remained, running on-line chat rooms and videos telling everyone over and over that what he did was wrong and don't fall for their tricks, here's a simple test: if they tell you to hurt a child, don't.
Fratricide's death penalty verdict stirs up a few thoughts....
Generally, I am not "in favor" of a death "penalty": in this case, I would not oppose it.
the rest of this post is tl;dr
My attitude toward a death penalty was shaped when I read The Fellowship of the Rings in 6th grade. Frodo says Gollum deserves death, and Gandalf replies, "Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment." Mock the source all you want, the gist of the message made a 12-yr old stop and think.
Let's say that the "redemption rate" of people who "deserve death" is about 5% to 10%. Is that alone enough to justify keeping the other 90% - 95% alive?
Well, I'm not completely opposed to putting people to death, it's more that in those situations, it would not be a death penalty:
-- deliberate murder of a police officer -- let's be honest and just call it revenge. "Eye for an eye" "Law of the Jungle" "Speak to anyone so depraved as deliberately to kill a cop in the only language he'll understand" frame it however you like, it's not a "penalty," it's a deterrent.
-- another, related situation to above. A person deliberately kills a cop, he'll kill a prison guard too. it's not fair to ask anyone to put themselves in that kind of danger. Kill the killer as a public safety measure instead. This situation extends to "Hannibal Lector" in real life. It's sort of like anti-bodies in action: just like our immune system has to kill off cancerous cells to keep the body healthy, in some situations society has to kill off the most dangerous and depraved among us to maintain the health and well-being of the rest of us.
-- that being said, very very few people fit that category. I have deliberately cast these concepts in repulsive terms to indicate how infrequently they would apply. Only people outside the realm of this revulsion deserve death. Anyone who knowingly and deliberately sets a ball-bearing filled pressure cooker bomb next to a child, I wouldn't oppose others' votes to apply that standard here.
-- on the other hand, there are cases of redemption, of people who "saw the light" and changed their ways and became positive contributors to society. There are plenty of examples to cite.
-- in a fantasy world, while serving time on death row, Fratricide will come to realize that, even if he were under the influence of his brother Speedbump, he still should have known better than to put a bomb down on the ground next to a child. He'd say, "I'm sorry, I was wrong." and then devote the rest of his life, while it remained, running on-line chat rooms and videos telling everyone over and over that what he did was wrong and don't fall for their tricks, here's a simple test: if they tell you to hurt a child, don't.
Last edited:
Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?
Snowflake babies - the moral issues
http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...732caefe81_story.html?tid=HP_more?tid=HP_more
Snowflake babies - the moral issues
http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...732caefe81_story.html?tid=HP_more?tid=HP_more
huskyfan
New member
Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?
that goes to the ultimate question : when does life begin?
the death penalty. I was all for it, until, years ago, during a discussion where most favored it, a friend of mine whose opinion I very much admire, mumbles under his breath "no one has the right to take a life, not even the state". that has become my long standing position, although I would make exceptions - child molesters (especially that monster in Florida that kidnapped, raped and buried alive a little girl) and terrorists.
that goes to the ultimate question : when does life begin?
the death penalty. I was all for it, until, years ago, during a discussion where most favored it, a friend of mine whose opinion I very much admire, mumbles under his breath "no one has the right to take a life, not even the state". that has become my long standing position, although I would make exceptions - child molesters (especially that monster in Florida that kidnapped, raped and buried alive a little girl) and terrorists.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?
Pregnant woman is told by her doctor that the fetus is growing [somehow medically dangerous] and will kill the mother [and perhaps the baby] if she doesn't have it aborted. Is that permitted under your self-defense clause?
Pregnant woman is told by her doctor that the fetus is growing [somehow medically dangerous] and will kill the mother [and perhaps the baby] if she doesn't have it aborted. Is that permitted under your self-defense clause?
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?
I don't understand making any exceptions if you go by a divine authority like Timothy's. The circumstances of conception shouldn't make any difference -- the woman is just a factory for God's babymaking operation and she has no rights.
I get people who declare an absolute opposition to abortion under all circumstances, and I get people who have a secular understanding of pregnancy as a spectrum that begins with the woman having complete authority and gradually having some rights ceded to the potential new life, but I will probably never understand the "except in cases of rape or incest." There's no logic to the latter position.
I don't understand making any exceptions if you go by a divine authority like Timothy's. The circumstances of conception shouldn't make any difference -- the woman is just a factory for God's babymaking operation and she has no rights.
I get people who declare an absolute opposition to abortion under all circumstances, and I get people who have a secular understanding of pregnancy as a spectrum that begins with the woman having complete authority and gradually having some rights ceded to the potential new life, but I will probably never understand the "except in cases of rape or incest." There's no logic to the latter position.
Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?
Thank you! The circumstances of her conception do not determine a person's value (or absence thereof).
Thank you! The circumstances of her conception do not determine a person's value (or absence thereof).
WisconsinWildcard
The plural of anecdote is not data
Yes. Even (surprise!) under Canon Law. If both will die (tubal pregnancy, for example) then it is permissable to take the child's life. Mom can have more kids if she is alive. However, if it's a choice between Mom or the baby, save the baby.
I prayed long and hard that I was never faced with that choice during our pregnancies. Thank God all 3 were healthy and uncomplicated births.
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?
Tim's not a Catholic Canon Law kind of guy, Joe. He's a biblical literalist Lutheran, to which he hints in his signature.
Tim's not a Catholic Canon Law kind of guy, Joe. He's a biblical literalist Lutheran, to which he hints in his signature.
But Tim is correct.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?
It's interesting to me that that is correct and yet the whole planet is run on the theory of evolution and the survival of the fittest. Seems God has one hell of a sense of humor.
It's interesting to me that that is correct and yet the whole planet is run on the theory of evolution and the survival of the fittest. Seems God has one hell of a sense of humor.
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?
Tim never answered my question. You did, but you're not Tim. Unless you are.
Tim never answered my question. You did, but you're not Tim. Unless you are.
I am not a wizard.
Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?
I was extremely fortunate in college to be able to take a course on the Bible from a visiting professor from Canada, Northrop Frye, a brilliant and pioneering literary critic. At his opening lecture, he said, "we are going to treat the Bible as if it were written by one person, and examine persistent literary themes that reoccur throughout the text." It was a real treat to study it purely as literature, especially since it has influenced so many writers and poets throughout history.
I was extremely fortunate in college to be able to take a course on the Bible from a visiting professor from Canada, Northrop Frye, a brilliant and pioneering literary critic. At his opening lecture, he said, "we are going to treat the Bible as if it were written by one person, and examine persistent literary themes that reoccur throughout the text." It was a real treat to study it purely as literature, especially since it has influenced so many writers and poets throughout history.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UdhdwWTLceo/UTkj1x4YjkI/AAAAAAAAGM8/kJdDfcgD28w/s1600/WizardTim.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UdhdwWTLceo/UTkj1x4YjkI/AAAAAAAAGM8/kJdDfcgD28w/s1600/WizardTim.jpg
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The Bible: Real, Fiction, or somewhere in between?
We interrupt this Ignore to comment how extremely jealous I am you saw Frye speak. If you haven't read it, I HIGHLY recommend Anatomy of Criticism. It's far and way the greatest book on lit crit ever written, and serves as the high water mark for criticism as it was written less than a decade before the rot began to set in. There has not been anything of lasting importance contributed to the discipline since, as the academy is still in the PoMo dead end.
Now back to Ignore before you ruin the moment.
We interrupt this Ignore to comment how extremely jealous I am you saw Frye speak. If you haven't read it, I HIGHLY recommend Anatomy of Criticism. It's far and way the greatest book on lit crit ever written, and serves as the high water mark for criticism as it was written less than a decade before the rot began to set in. There has not been anything of lasting importance contributed to the discipline since, as the academy is still in the PoMo dead end.
Now back to Ignore before you ruin the moment.
Last edited:
- Status