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The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

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Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

The course of action that makes most sense to me [now, since we can't go back in time and do it right the first time any more...:( ) is only to go after the two Assads and the high-level military leaders, the ones who ordered the chemical weapons attack. Which of course means this is the one course of action you can be sure we won't follow.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Yeah, coz that's what I advocated for.

What's your solution? The UN? They won't do anything. What's your plan B?


Inaction in the face of chemical weapons use is not a good foreign policy. Not to be hawkish, but is there a red line or not?
Who launched the chemical weapons?, are you sure? I trust the US gov't to tell me the truth as much as nothing, remember WMDs
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

The course of action that makes most sense to me [now, since we can't go back in time and do it right the first time any more...:( ) is only to go after the two Assads and the high-level military leaders, the ones who ordered the chemical weapons attack. Which of course means this is the one course of action you can be sure we won't follow.

Flattening "presidential palaces" should be right near the top of the target list. Degrading their military capabilities (WMD or conventional) should be el numero uno. Blowing up some missiles or shells at a depot somewhere won't make much of an impression. This is a guy who has killed about 100K of his citizens already. Sending some corporals and sergeants to paradise isn't likely to make much of an impression. The worst option is a pin pr*ck attack. Assad will interpret that as a small price to pay for using WMD. And will likely encourage rather than discourage their use in future.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

IMO we should be going through the UN on this Syria thing. Nothing but risks and costs by doing this ourselves.

Sure. And maybe they can get to the bottom of the "Benghazi thingy" too.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Flattening "presidential palaces" should be right near the top of the target list. Degrading their military capabilities (WMD or conventional) should be el numero uno. Blowing up some missiles or shells at a depot somewhere won't make much of an impression. This is a guy who has killed about 100K of his citizens already. Sending some corporals and sergeants to paradise isn't likely to make much of an impression. The worst option is a pin pr*ck attack. Assad will interpret that as a small price to pay for using WMD. And will likely encourage rather than discourage their use in future.
It's their business, not ours. How many of his own citizens did Abe Lincoln kill in the Civil War? I'm glad that no foreign power intervened in our Civil War.

EDIT: House of Commons has told the PM to stuff it.
 
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Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Who launched the chemical weapons?, are you sure? I trust the US gov't to tell me the truth as much as nothing, remember WMDs


I haven't forgotten and it was pretty easy to follow the trail of motives that time.

What's Obama's motivation to lie? Seems to me that a fight is about the last thing ever that he'd want.


I believe the footage and the rest of the world's reporting. If there's any shred of doubt, we should hold off. My guess though is that our higher ups know more details than we do at this point.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

I haven't forgotten and it was pretty easy to follow the trail of motives that time.

What's Obama's motivation to lie? Seems to me that a fight is about the last thing ever that he'd want.


I believe the footage and the rest of the world's reporting. If there's any shred of doubt, we should hold off. My guess though is that our higher ups know more details than we do at this point.
Obama may not be lying, the question is does he know the truth? I wouldn't be shocked if the rebels gassed themselves(draw us in). I have to think their are plenty of terrorists types who would like to draw us into another war.

I have yet to figure any good reason why Assad would want to draw us into this, chemical weapons are a surefire way to do it. He has very modern weaponry, he can kill thousands without poison gas.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Obama may not be lying, the question is does he know the truth? I wouldn't be shocked if the rebels gassed themselves(draw us in). I have to think their are plenty of terrorists types who would like to draw us into another war.

I have yet to figure any good reason why Assad would want to draw us into this, chemical weapons are a surefire way to do it. He has very modern weaponry, he can kill thousands without poison gas.


Valid points.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

It's their business, not ours. How many of his own citizens did Abe Lincoln kill in the Civil War? I'm glad that no foreign power intervened in our Civil War.
Britain was a heck of a lot more involved in the American Civil War than we *currently* are in Syria. That may change in the next 24-72 hours...
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

It's their business, not ours. How many of his own citizens did Abe Lincoln kill in the Civil War? I'm glad that no foreign power intervened in our Civil War.

EDIT: House of Commons has told the PM to stuff it.

Abraham Lincoln = Bashar al Assad? Apart from the 10,000 or so differences, the situations are exactly the same.
 
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Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Obama may not be lying, the question is does he know the truth? I wouldn't be shocked if the rebels gassed themselves(draw us in). I have to think their are plenty of terrorists types who would like to draw us into another war.

I have yet to figure any good reason why Assad would want to draw us into this, chemical weapons are a surefire way to do it. He has very modern weaponry, he can kill thousands without poison gas.

And already has. Thus the question: why are the WMD caused deaths of 1,000 Syrians at the hands of their "government," a casus belli, but the murders of 100,000 Syrians (killed by means other than WMD) at the hands of their "government" not?

Assad and his Russian and Iranian buddies may have convinced himself the US is the "weak horse." And that any response by us will be insufficient to seriously diminish his regime, while giving him enhanced prestige on the "arab street." A few cruise missiles may be a price he's willing, if not happy, to pay.
 
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Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Abraham Lincoln = Hafez al Assad? Apart from the 10,000 or so differences, the situations are exactly the same.
They both dealt (dealing) with an insurrection against the established government. Winners will decide who gets the nice pages in the history books.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

They both dealt (dealing) with an insurrection against the established government. Winners will decide who gets the nice pages in the history books.

If gross (not to mention ignorant) oversimplification were an Olympic event, you'd be a lead pipe cinch to be on the podium.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

If there's one thing I've grown weary of in recent years, it's every Middle Eastern blood feud suddenly being America's problem. It's well established that these backassward Islamist nutjobs will declare war if Westerners so much as whisper Mohammed's name in the wrong tone of voice. Why should my tax dollars be spent lobbing a few missiles into a war that, for once, we didn't even initiate? I'm drawing the line right there. Not our war, not our *ing problem.

It's time to tell the rest of the Western world that if they're going to sob and wag their fingers about some tinpot dictator using chemical weapons on his own equally tinpot opposition, they can't expect America to do all of the dirty work in response.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

If there's one thing I've grown weary of in recent years, it's every Middle Eastern blood feud suddenly being America's problem. It's well established that these backassward Islamist nutjobs will declare war if Westerners so much as whisper Mohammed's name in the wrong tone of voice. Why should my tax dollars be spent lobbing a few missiles into a war that, for once, we didn't even initiate? I'm drawing the line right there. Not our war, not our *ing problem.

It's time to tell the rest of the Western world that if they're going to sob and wag their fingers about some tinpot dictator using chemical weapons on his own equally tinpot opposition, they can't expect America to do all of the dirty work in response.

It's certainly true if we regain energy independence (which the president and his allies are fighting in every way they know how) we'd have much less interest in the Middle East. Recall the Carter Doctrine: The Middle East is in the vital national security interests of the United States. Although 9/11 did inject a slightly different dynamic into the discussion.

Personally I enjoyed it when we lobbed a cruise missile into Slobodon Milosovic's rumpus room. And seeing Hussein dangling from the end of a rope was endlessly entertaining. No more live coverage of him firing a rifle, wearing that doofus Tyrolean hat, from a balcony. We didn't ask to be the hyper-power, but we are. And even though we can't or shouldn't involve ourselves in every tragedy where massive numbers of innocents are being slaughtered, that doesn't mean we shouldn't ever intervene. And while "international coalitions" are a useful cover for the United States doing whatever it wishes, I'm not overly concerned with whether we have UN approval. Or a green light from Andorra.

We should put our national interests above all other concerns. Period. Our president has said Assad's use of WMD crosses a Red Line, which we won't permit. Should we do nothing? We've also said Iran going nuclear will cross another Red Line. Should we likewise do nothing? Just before the bullet slammed into his face, I'm guessing Bin Laden had reassessed the notion of us being the "weak horse." I favor disabusing as many of these Islamist a*sholes as possible of that delusion.
 
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Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Yeah, coz that's what I advocated for.

What's your solution? The UN? They won't do anything. What's your plan B?


Inaction in the face of chemical weapons use is not a good foreign policy. Not to be hawkish, but is there a red line or not?

You're the one that wrote ****em up and **** the torpedoes. That says to me who cares about the collateral damage.

And my solution if not to do a **** military thing unless the Syrian government attacks a military installation, the United States itself, and/or American citizens. It's their civil war and I don't care how they fight it.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Obama may not be lying, the question is does he know the truth? I wouldn't be shocked if the rebels gassed themselves(draw us in). I have to think their are plenty of terrorists types who would like to draw us into another war.

I have yet to figure any good reason why Assad would want to draw us into this, chemical weapons are a surefire way to do it. He has very modern weaponry, he can kill thousands without poison gas.

This.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

It's their business, not ours. How many of his own citizens did Abe Lincoln kill in the Civil War? I'm glad that no foreign power intervened in our Civil War.

EDIT: House of Commons has told the PM to stuff it.
During our civil war, the English played the role currently occupied by the Russians in the Syrian civil war, only the English supplied the rebels and their government.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

It's certainly true if we regain energy independence (which the president and his allies are fighting in every way they know how) we'd have much less interest in the Middle East. Recall the Carter Doctrine: The Middle East is in the vital national security interests of the United States. Although 9/11 did inject a slightly different dynamic into the discussion.

Personally I enjoyed it when we lobbed a cruise missile into Slobodon Milosovic's rumpus room. And seeing Hussein dangling from the end of a rope was endlessly entertaining. No more live coverage of him firing a rifle, wearing that doofus Tyrolean hat, from a balcony. We didn't ask to be the hyper-power, but we are. And even though we can't or shouldn't involve ourselves in every tragedy where massive numbers of innocents are being slaughtered, that doesn't mean we shouldn't ever intervene. And while "international coalitions" are a useful cover for the United States doing whatever it wishes, I'm not overly concerned with whether we have UN approval. Or a green light from Andorra.

We should put our national interests above all other concerns. Period. Our president has said Assad's use of WMD crosses a Red Line, which we won't permit. Should we do nothing? We've also said Iran going nuclear will cross another Red Line. Should we likewise do nothing? Just before the bullet slammed into his face, I'm guessing Bin Laden had reassessed the notion of us being the "weak horse." I favor disabusing as many of these Islamist a*sholes as possible of that delusion.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/27/us-syria-oil-factbox-idUSBRE97Q0JW20130827

According to that article, Syria produces about 0.4% of the world's oil. They export only about 40% of what they produce; most of that goes to Europe.

There are far bigger and more important oil reserves for the United States to be concerned about. Leave them to deal with their own political infighting.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/27/us-syria-oil-factbox-idUSBRE97Q0JW20130827

According to that article, Syria produces about 0.4% of the world's oil. They export only about 40% of what they produce; most of that goes to Europe.

There are far bigger and more important oil reserves for the United States to be concerned about. Leave them to deal with their own political infighting.

Isolationism has a long history in our country. And I'm sympathetic to the impulse. I just don't believe it's a viable response to world problems. We can certainly agree that we need to re-establish energy independence, notwithstanding the president's objections.
 
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