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The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

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Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Rover said:
As Iraq was the most ill advised war in the nation's history, one can't say that Obama or any other Prez, Republican or Democrat would have done the same. Only your hero, GWB, is responsible for that and please spare me the "I didn't like the guy" schlock. All you knucks' loved the guy right up until his poll #'s started going south. :rolleyes:

Its okay to leave responsibility where it belongs. On this one, it clearly belongs with neo-cons which is why they should never be put into a position of power again. Had McSame or Mittens been President we'd still be in Iraq, Afghanistan would be an open ended committment and we'd most likey have troops in Syria.

Regarding anti-war, I was fully supportive of the Gulf War, Bosnian Wars, and Afghan War. I understood why we were there and what we were doing. Grenada, sure. Beirut, no for other conflicts.
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You missed my point further than Michael Bay missed the point in Pearl Harbor. Of course you can say now that you support Afghanistan because the messiah dictator supports it. I'm asking if you supported it when your so-called "worst President ever" was in command.
 
FlagDUDE08 said:
You missed my point further than Michael Bay missed the point in Pearl Harbor. Of course you can say now that you support Afghanistan because the messiah dictator supports it. I'm asking if you supported it when your so-called "worst President ever" was in command.
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Yes Flaggy, as I clearly stated, because that's where the terrorists, you know, actually were! An important point that you seem to not be able to grasp. You don't fight Al Quada by invading countries that they aren't present in. Likewise, Obama wasn't in office during the Gulf War either and I supported that. :rolleyes: Are you up to speed now?
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

I see the lying liar is up to his usual lies. One thing to remember is that every story can be turned to support a false god of party or personality, if you are the type of person to go down that road. People like Rover will never be able to admit that their false god, the democrat party in this case, is capable of error. It would destroy his reason for living. So it would probably be best to ignore the chanting. Otherwise, there are a few points that need to be cleared up.
First, we would in fact NOT "still be in Iraq" if GW (or McCain, etc) still held office. That's a complete democrat party talking point myth. In fact, the withdrawal schedule adhered to so faithfully by the Obama white house is in itself the exact withdrawal strategy developed by GW Bush, without the slightest alteration or speeding up or slowing down or anything. Obama's best accomplishment was to do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING regarding Iraq and let the grownups carry on with the plan that was already in place, not a bad move but not deserving of any credit for independent thought either. He's a little child on the global stage, along for the ride on the shoulders of real leaders.
Also, there's no debating the invasion was the proper course to take when you take a longer view of history than whether Saddam was likely to smuggle WMD's into the U.S... It's likely that upwards of 3,000,000 more lives were saved by our soldiers there than had we ignored the genocide and stuck our fingers in our ears. This is challenging for our democrat party religion disciples, it requires some understanding of history and deeper empathy than they are used to applying.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

geezer said:
Also, there's no debating the invasion was the proper course to take when you take a longer view of history than whether Saddam was likely to smuggle WMD's into the U.S... It's likely that upwards of 3,000,000 more lives were saved by our soldiers there than had we ignored the genocide and stuck our fingers in our ears. This is challenging for our democrat party religion disciples, it requires some understanding of history and deeper empathy than they are used to applying.
Click to expand...

Sorry geeze, no evidence of that. So do we invade N Korea, Iran, etc? By that logic, we're never safe (never mind that all these invasions alone would make future generations want to come to the US and bomb us).

Regardless the country doesn't believe that position. In fact as the country starts to take a longer view...its believing more and more that Iraq was 'dumb'.

Poll: Many Americans believe Iraq war was a ‘mistake’
March 19, 2013

And a CNN/ORC International poll released Tuesday also indicates that more than half of the public says that President George W. Bush’s administration misled Americans about whether Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, and more than half describe the more than eight and a half year long war as a stalemate.

As Americans mark the tenth anniversary of the conflict, 59% of those questioned in the survey say the decision to originally send U.S. troops into Iraq was dumb. That’s up eight points from December 2011, when the final U.S. troops left the country. Thirty-eight percent say it was a smart decision, down seven points.

http://fox4kc.com/2013/03/19/poll-many-americans-believe-iraq-war-was-a-mistake/
 
First geezer writes:

geezer said:
I see the lying liar is up to his usual lies. One thing to remember is that every story can be turned to support a false god of party or personality...
Click to expand...

Oooo...sounds serious!

But then he says...

geezer said:
Obama's best accomplishment was to do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING regarding Iraq and let the grownups carry on with the plan that was already in place, not a bad move but not deserving of any credit for independent thought either. He's a little child on the global stage, along for the ride on the shoulders of real leaders.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that sounds like a sober and reasoned opinion with NO partisan bias to me! I mean, what an idiot. Are you Paul Ryan or something?

But, lets get to the "facts" of his argument:

geezer said:
Otherwise, there are a few points that need to be cleared up.
First, we would in fact NOT "still be in Iraq" if GW (or McCain, etc) still held office. That's a complete democrat party talking point myth. In fact, the withdrawal schedule adhered to so faithfully by the Obama white house is in itself the exact withdrawal strategy developed by GW Bush, without the slightest alteration or speeding up or slowing down or anything.
Click to expand...

Pants-on-fire falsehoold right here. Bush's "plan" called for keeping a contingency force of tens of thousands of troops in Iraq indefinitely after the combat troops ended where they would be sitting ducks. The O pulled the plug once and for all after Iraqis in their gratitude refused to give immunity to US soldiers who they were supposed to greet as liberators.

But, is geezer done lying? Meh, not quite...

geezer said:
Also, there's no debating the invasion was the proper course to take when you take a longer view of history than whether Saddam was likely to smuggle WMD's into the U.S... It's likely that upwards of 3,000,000 more lives were saved by our soldiers there than had we ignored the genocide and stuck our fingers in our ears.
Click to expand...

Um, excuse me, but what part of your body did you pull this out of? We launched this foolhardy war to save 3M people from a genocide? The entire population of Iraq in 2003 was about 25M. He was going to off 12% of the total population of the country? Yeah...that's some serious posting right there. Any backup for this statement?

But finally, he brings it home:

geezer said:
it requires some understanding of history and deeper empathy than they are used to applying.
Click to expand...

You can say that again. Unfortunately you need to learn your own lesson. Luckily for you I'm happy to educate you knucks' for free, although you really ought to be paying me for the effort. :D
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

5mn_Major said:
Sorry geeze, no evidence of that. So do we invade N Korea, Iran, etc? By that logic, we're never safe (never mind that all these invasions alone would make future generations want to come to the US and bomb us).

Regardless the country doesn't believe that position. In fact as the country starts to take a longer view...its believing more and more that Iraq was 'dumb'.

Poll: Many Americans believe Iraq war was a ‘mistake’
March 19, 2013

And a CNN/ORC International poll released Tuesday also indicates that more than half of the public says that President George W. Bush’s administration misled Americans about whether Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, and more than half describe the more than eight and a half year long war as a stalemate.

As Americans mark the tenth anniversary of the conflict, 59% of those questioned in the survey say the decision to originally send U.S. troops into Iraq was dumb. That’s up eight points from December 2011, when the final U.S. troops left the country. Thirty-eight percent say it was a smart decision, down seven points.

http://fox4kc.com/2013/03/19/poll-many-americans-believe-iraq-war-was-a-mistake/
Click to expand...

Let us know when you have data from a pole that isn't biased.
 
5mn_Major said:
Sorry geeze, no evidence of that. So do we invade N Korea, Iran, etc? By that logic, we're never safe (never mind that all these invasions alone would make future generations want to come to the US and bomb us).

Regardless the country doesn't believe that position. In fact as the country starts to take a longer view...its believing more and more that Iraq was 'dumb'.

Poll: Many Americans believe Iraq war was a ‘mistake’
March 19, 2013

And a CNN/ORC International poll released Tuesday also indicates that more than half of the public says that President George W. Bush’s administration misled Americans about whether Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, and more than half describe the more than eight and a half year long war as a stalemate.

As Americans mark the tenth anniversary of the conflict, 59% of those questioned in the survey say the decision to originally send U.S. troops into Iraq was dumb. That’s up eight points from December 2011, when the final U.S. troops left the country. Thirty-eight percent say it was a smart decision, down seven points.

http://fox4kc.com/2013/03/19/poll-many-americans-believe-iraq-war-was-a-mistake/
Click to expand...
Wholly shyt Rover you are JUST now getting that we are never safe.... yes Rover there are bad people EVERYWHERE. It is Sheep like you that makes it nessicary for Sheep dogs to do what we do. Yes, if Iran does not see the light that the road they are on is a path to great pain and turmoil for them, the Western World will have to destroy their path.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

GopherBigGuy911 said:
Wholly shyt Rover you are JUST now getting that we are never safe.... yes Rover there are bad people EVERYWHERE. It is Sheep like you that makes it nessicary for Sheep dogs to do what we do. Yes, if Iran does not see the light that the road they are on is a path to great pain and turmoil for them, the Western World will have to destroy their path.
Click to expand...

Quote the wrong post? ;)
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

How the hell did that happen? Well sorry about that man.
 
FlagDUDE08 said:
Anyone get the feeling that dirty Harry is up for re-election? http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/mar/19/reid-shoots-down-feinstein-gun-ban-bill/

You know what I find funny? People like Grover can brag about liberal policy and how their people are in, but when it comes time for an election, the elected don't have the balls to stick to their guns...
Click to expand...
Yep they have to pretend to be realistic when it is time for the swim suit competition of election season.
 
FlagDUDE08 said:
Anyone get the feeling that dirty Harry is up for re-election? http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/mar/19/reid-shoots-down-feinstein-gun-ban-bill/

You know what I find funny? People like Grover can brag about liberal policy and how their people are in, but when it comes time for an election, the elected don't have the balls to stick to their guns...
Click to expand...

Even more amusing when people like Grover have already stated they don't care about the assault weapons ban as much as universal background checks and would gladly trade one for the other! Can't speak for every Dem but I'm speculating Obama is using that as a bargaining chip so that everybody saves face (GOP Senator: "yeah we did universal checks but we did defeat assault weapons ban").
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

5mn_Major said:
Sorry geeze, no evidence of that.
Click to expand...

You misunderstood. I agree there was no danger of Iraq exporting WMDs to the U.S. That was my point, that WMDs was a minor consideration, ethically, in the decision to invade. (Yes, it was also the threat most trumpeted at the time when our gov't was drumming up support).
I admit that I made up the 3,000,000 number. The point is that Saddam's atrocities vs his neighbors and his own people justified our removing him from power. And his kids! Have any of you read about those guys? Who knows where it would have ended if nobody was willing to stand up. Probably like Rwanda did, the US's biggest failure of the past century.
The point is that it was not a mistake to go in to Iraq the way we did. The mistake was losing heart and screwing around for years with poorly planned and implemented strategies when we were capable of finishing the job in under a year.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Rover said:
Bush's "plan" called for keeping a contingency force of tens of thousands of troops in Iraq indefinitely after the combat troops ended where they would be sitting ducks. The O pulled the plug once and for all after Iraqis in their gratitude refused to give immunity to US soldiers who they were supposed to greet as liberators.
Click to expand...
This is just a lie. I'd suggest you look it up, but I have some sympathy to your religion preventing you from admitting any weakness in a democrat party member. To other people: look it up, the withdrawal schedule was actually set before Obama's election. To his credit, he saw the wisdom in it and didn't change a thing. Recognizing your own weakness is step 1.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

geezer said:
This is just a lie. I'd suggest you look it up, but I have some sympathy to your religion preventing you from admitting any weakness in a democrat party member. To other people: look it up, the withdrawal schedule was actually set before Obama's election. To his credit, he saw the wisdom in it and didn't change a thing. Recognizing your own weakness is step 1.
Click to expand...

To Rover's credit, there was someone in DC at the time who was calling for an indefinite stay. To Rover's demise, that person was Hillary Rodham.
 
geezer said:
This is just a lie. I'd suggest you look it up, but I have some sympathy to your religion preventing you from admitting any weakness in a democrat party member. To other people: look it up, the withdrawal schedule was actually set before Obama's election. To his credit, he saw the wisdom in it and didn't change a thing. Recognizing your own weakness is step 1.
Click to expand...
Actually, I have to agree with rover. We had planned on having 3-4 military bases in Iraq yet, that would not conduct combat operations, but that would available for possible ops in Iran. We would have 2 airbases which would of had air power that would of been available to the Iraqi military and police. But, Obummer said F U Iraq when we could not get a status of forces agreement signed. That status of forces agreement would of given US forces immunity from Iraqi courts.

Edit - and must I remind you Rover - we were welcomed a liberators.... See above posts for a re-edumakation on that fact.
 
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