The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

[FreshFish]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

A perspective on the House budget:

let's put this in perspective. On the current path, we'll spend $46 trillion over the next 10 years. Under our proposal, we'll spend $41 trillion. On the current path, spending will increase by 5% each year. Under our proposal, it will increase by 3.4%. Because the U.S. economy will grow faster than spending, the budget will balance by 2023, and debt held by the public will drop to just over half the size of the economy.

Sounds good in theory, to re-focus on jobs and economic growth...

Yet the most important question isn't how we balance the budget. It's why. A budget is a means to an end, and the end isn't a neat and tidy spreadsheet. It's the well-being of all Americans. By giving families stability and protecting them from tax hikes, our budget will promote a healthier economy and help create jobs

yeah, if it works. but why this route?

the nation's debt is a sign of overreach. Government is trying to do too much, and when government does too much, it doesn't do anything well. So a balanced budget is a reasonable goal, because it returns government to its proper limits and focus. By curbing government's overreach, our budget will give families the space they need to thrive....a balanced budget will help the economy. Smaller deficits will keep interest rates low, which will help small businesses to expand and hire. It's no surprise, then, that the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office believes that legislation reducing the deficit as much as our budget does would boost gross national product by 1.7% in 2023 [emphases added]

Big emphasis on Keystone (more construction jobs, AND cheaper energy supplies --> better economic growth), tax reform (not to raise additional revenue directly, to make compliance easier and simpler and to raise revenue through increased economic growth through cleaner incentives to work and save).

We shouldn't measure success by how much we spend. We should measure it by how many people we help. Those who protect the status quo must answer to the 46 million Americans living in poverty

Finally, someone gets it! Many existing government programs are an anchor, not a lifesaver! They need to be reformed because they currently consign people to permanent despair and need to be replaced by incentives to progress.

 

[Rover]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Fishy, you're having a neo-conartist wet dream again. Paul Ryan's budget is a loser and a non-starter just like his ticket during the last Presidential election. Any weasel who tries to exempt the over 55 crowd from any contributions to the fiscal mess while screwing over everybody below that arbitrary age needs to be severely beaten on the floor of the House of Representatives. The over 55 crowd are the people who got us into this mess. I'll be d@mned if I'm paying for yet another free ride for that generation.

The only, and I mean only, people who get a free pass are the ones who fought the Second World War. To have fought in WWII, you can be no younger than your mid-80's. Lets be generous and acknowledge the people that were too young to serve but may have contributed anyway. So, back it up to people in their late 70's. No changes to entitlements for this crowd. They've already done their part.

Everybody else pay up. The generation who's age ranges from low 70's to late 50's are the ones who kept voting for sky high services but no taxes. Amazing Ryan wants these same people to skate, until you realize these are the most reliably Republican voters. We're supposed to salute a guy who concocted a budget that exempts his voters at the expense of everybody else? You've gotta be kidding me.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Before BHO advocates for more tax increases, how about collecting some of the taxes that are already owed?

[The] IRS reports that no fewer than 40 aides to President Obama still owe the federal government a combined $333,485 in back taxes....

We know these numbers because the IRS is required by law to disclose how many federal employees, by department (and including retirees), are behind in their taxes. This year, some 312,000 of Uncle Sam’s own employees owe the IRS a whopping $3.52 billion.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Fishy, you're having a neo-conartist wet dream again. Paul Ryan's budget is a loser and a non-starter just like his ticket during the last Presidential election. Any weasel who tries to exempt the over 55 crowd from any contributions to the fiscal mess while screwing over everybody below that arbitrary age needs to be severely beaten on the floor of the House of Representatives. The over 55 crowd are the people who got us into this mess. I'll be d@mned if I'm paying for yet another free ride for that generation.

The only, and I mean only, people who get a free pass are the ones who fought the Second World War. To have fought in WWII, you can be no younger than your mid-80's. Lets be generous and acknowledge the people that were too young to serve but may have contributed anyway. So, back it up to people in their late 70's. No changes to entitlements for this crowd. They've already done their part.

Everybody else pay up. The generation who's age ranges from low 70's to late 50's are the ones who kept voting for sky high services but no taxes. Amazing Ryan wants these same people to skate, until you realize these are the most reliably Republican voters. We're supposed to salute a guy who concocted a budget that exempts his voters at the expense of everybody else? You've gotta be kidding me.

You're not going to get any money out of the boomers while they're so close to their goal of bankruptcy for the country. Ryan wants to give his mother one last gift, his budget.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

He has no choice or they do?

If he doesn't fit into the establishment, he won't be the nominee. That's why Ron Paul didn't get the nomination.

 

[Rover]

You're not going to get any money out of the boomers while they're so close to their goal of bankruptcy for the country. Ryan wants to give his mother one last gift, his budget.

Obama got some back, but I agree they'll steal anything that's not nailed down. Its funny that a guy like Fishy wants to be seen as some sort of truth telling sage, and then he goes an embraces a clown show like Ryan's budget. I'd ask him to respond but you know he won't. The question remains though: Why are people over 55 getting a free pass?

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Fishy, you're having a neo-conartist wet dream again. Paul Ryan's budget is a loser and a non-starter just like his ticket during the last Presidential election. Any weasel who tries to exempt the over 55 crowd from any contributions to the fiscal mess while screwing over everybody below that arbitrary age needs to be severely beaten on the floor of the House of Representatives. The over 55 crowd are the people who got us into this mess. I'll be d@mned if I'm paying for yet another free ride for that generation.

The only, and I mean only, people who get a free pass are the ones who fought the Second World War. To have fought in WWII, you can be no younger than your mid-80's. Lets be generous and acknowledge the people that were too young to serve but may have contributed anyway. So, back it up to people in their late 70's. No changes to entitlements for this crowd. They've already done their part.

Everybody else pay up. The generation who's age ranges from low 70's to late 50's are the ones who kept voting for sky high services but no taxes. Amazing Ryan wants these same people to skate, until you realize these are the most reliably Republican voters. We're supposed to salute a guy who concocted a budget that exempts his voters at the expense of everybody else? You've gotta be kidding me.

I don't disagree with your concepts, but please show where Mr. Ryan's budget panders to the 55+.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

I don't disagree with your concepts, but please show where Mr. Ryan's budget panders to the 55+.

Oh, please. It's a handout to them and you know it.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Oh, please. It's a handout to them and you know it.

Please be specific.

 

[Rover]

I don't disagree with your concepts, but please show where Mr. Ryan's budget panders to the 55+.

Yes, he plans no changes to entitlements for the 55 and over crowd, but will turn Medicare to a voucher for the under 55 crowd. If this plan is such a swell idea, why isn't he extending it to everybody in the program? Or, assuming we exempt really old people who don't like change much, why not at least extend it to 55-67 year olds, essentually up to the new retirement age (as there's proposals to raise Medicare age to 67, SoS might already be there depending on your current age).

My take is Ryan is a politician putting forward a self serving political document rather than some bold tough medicine for the country. People are welcome to disagree with that, but I'm curious what they think is driving the 55 year old age cutoff.

 

[geezer]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

For all the obsession around here with how "the elderly must be punished" and we have to "take what is fair from the elderly" and how "the elderly people have too much money saved", I don't see anything in what's been linked so far that says there are age limits written into these proposals. Serious question: What does the budget have to do with your age? It could be in there and I just haven't heard about it. Not that I necessarily agree with the premise that we should concentrate first on punishing the elderly; it seems a little odd at first blush.

OK, I see what you guys are obsessing about; entitlement reform. While there might be a case to be made for attempting to balance the budget with the retirement savings of baby boomers, it still seems a little far fetched to me. Aren't there more fruitful areas to pursue, not to mention politically sane, even assuming we are 100% about raising more revenue and want to leave defense spending etc. alone completely? These are people in or on the verge of or in retirement and they're going to carry the debt of the whole country?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Please be specific.

Everyone over 55 gets Medicare as is and everyone under 55 gets a voucher to go buy something else. That's a win win for 55 and over and a lose lose for everyone else. Hell, he tried to shift it to 56 and people went so nuts he went back to 55. If his plan is so good for folks under 55 why'd the extra year get so much flack???

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Yes, he plans no changes to entitlements for the 55 and over crowd, but will turn Medicare to a voucher for the under 55 crowd. If this plan is such a swell idea, why isn't he extending it to everybody in the program? Or, assuming we exempt really old people who don't like change much, why not at least extend it to 55-67 year olds, essentually up to the new retirement age (as there's proposals to raise Medicare age to 67, SoS might already be there depending on your current age).

My take is Ryan is a politician putting forward a self serving political document rather than some bold tough medicine for the country. People are welcome to disagree with that, but I'm curious what they think is driving the 55 year old age cutoff.

The age of 55 is being used because it is still the government sector age for retirement, under the condition that you have been with the job for 30 years. At least this is still the case for teachers. Do you have any thoughts regarding if, instead of having an arbitrary grandfather clause, to have it be a true grandfather clause where, instead of calling out an age, you state it is for citizens who are receiving retirement benefits at the time the law is enacted?

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

For all the obsession around here with how "the elderly must be punished" and we have to "take what is fair from the elderly" and how "the elderly people have too much money saved", I don't see anything in what's been linked so far that says there are age limits written into these proposals. Serious question: What does the budget have to do with your age? It could be in there and I just haven't heard about it. Not that I necessarily agree with the premise that we should concentrate first on punishing the elderly; it seems a little odd at first blush.

There are arbitrary ages assigned all throughout society, whether it's retirement, compulsory schooling, alcohol purchase, becoming President, the list goes on and on.

 

[unofan]

A perspective on the House budget:




Sounds good in theory, to re-focus on jobs and economic growth...




yeah, if it works. but why this route?


Big emphasis on Keystone (more construction jobs, AND cheaper energy supplies --> better economic growth), tax reform (not to raise additional revenue directly, to make compliance easier and simpler and to raise revenue through increased economic growth through cleaner incentives to work and save).



Finally, someone gets it! Many existing government programs are an anchor, not a lifesaver! They need to be reformed because they currently consign people to permanent despair and need to be replaced by incentives to progress.

He gets it so much that he couldn't resist throwing in repealing obamacare and turning medicare into a voucher system (sounds like obamacare), even though those have no chance in hell of passing or surviving a veto.

What is that, the 35th attempt by house republicans to repeal obamacare? Way to focus on jobs.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Way to focus on jobs.

Why start now? They sure didn't focus on jobs after the Bone Man chanted Jobs Jobs Jobs a hundred times in various forums. In fact they spent more time on abortion legislation across the country during the great "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs" push than at any other time in our history.

 

[Rover]

The age of 55 is being used because it is still the government sector age for retirement, under the condition that you have been with the job for 30 years. At least this is still the case for teachers. Do you have any thoughts regarding if, instead of having an arbitrary grandfather clause, to have it be a true grandfather clause where, instead of calling out an age, you state it is for citizens who are receiving retirement benefits at the time the law is enacted?

To your first statement, are you speculating or did the weasel give that as a reason? Why I bring it up is not every govt agency works on a 55 year old retirement cutoff. In fact don't cops usually have to put in 20 years and then can retire although obviously that differs depending on the municipality.

To your question, I am not in favor of any age group too young to have dealt with WWII getting a special carve out. Obviously the disabled, etc you handle differently, but the early retirees for non disability reasons (age 62) to those in their early 70's need to contribute. You can do a sliding scale or something but no blanket get out of paying status for these people. Enough is enough. IMHO Ryan is looking at the electorate and trying to exempt his party's supporters which is a nakedly cynical as any budget plan I've ever seen.

But as geezer says, this is all unneccesary. The key to Medicare reform is delivering the same service more efficiently. Allowing Medicare to bargain for prescription drugs plus tort reform plus fraud crackdown will generate the savings people are looking for, and can be aided by picking the low hanging tax fruit (oil/AG, carried interest, etc) in a sort of Mini-Bargain that the parties should incorporate into their budgets.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

To your first statement, are you speculating or did the weasel give that as a reason? Why I bring it up is not every govt agency works on a 55 year old retirement cutoff. In fact don't cops usually have to put in 20 years and then can retire although obviously that differs depending on the municipality.

To your question, I am not in favor of any age group too young to have dealt with WWII getting a special carve out. Obviously the disabled, etc you handle differently, but the early retirees for non disability reasons (age 62) to those in their early 70's need to contribute. You can do a sliding scale or something but no blanket get out of paying status for these people. Enough is enough. IMHO Ryan is looking at the electorate and trying to exempt his party's supporters which is a nakedly cynical as any budget plan I've ever seen.

But as geezer says, this is all unneccesary. The key to Medicare reform is delivering the same service more efficiently. Allowing Medicare to bargain for prescription drugs plus tort reform plus fraud crackdown will generate the savings people are looking for, and can be aided by picking the low hanging tax fruit (oil/AG, carried interest, etc) in a sort of Mini-Bargain that the parties should incorporate into their budgets.

To the first statement, my reasoning behind it is seeing teachers actually retire at that age, and then making an inference from there. I don't see where else the lobbying would come from, aside from maybe AARP, who would obviously benefit from the system while screwing over its constituents. AARP does commonly send out those sign-and-send-to-your-Congressman slips in order to push their political agenda; I've held the proof of that in my hand. I don't disagree with you that a politician is trying to put a smile on someone's face. After all, isn't that the very definition of campaigning? Just so long as it is understood that every side does this, not just those "evil Republicans".

As a thought, have you written to your Congressperson or Senator about these ideas for Medicare reform? I think we have some good ideas here. Obviously the politicians don't think they can get it through without a grandfather clause, and that would cause a lot more headache unless they take the Verizon approach (we'll grandfather you, but charge you up the wazoo for it until you switch to one of our current plans).

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

He gets it so much that he couldn't resist throwing in repealing obamacare and turning medicare into a voucher system (sounds like obamacare), even though those have no chance in hell of passing or surviving a veto.

What is that, the 35th attempt by house republicans to repeal obamacare? Way to focus on jobs.

You do understand that the PPACA is causing people to lose jobs (or at least be moved from full-time to part-time), yes?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

You do understand that the PPACA is causing people to lose jobs (or at least be moved from full-time to part-time), yes?

Of course it is. Because we insist on linking employment to health care yet at the same time we don't require insurance to get health care and we don't require employment to get insurance.

Make sense? No, it didn't make any sense to me either.

The good thing is if you have enough money it doesn't matter either way. So, just go make more.