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The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

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Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Too many righties are trying to make this about the assault weapons ban. I'm all for that, but its not my primary concern. Get background checks on every sale, crack down on enforcement, and as has been mentioned hold people criminally liable if their gun is used by someone else in a crime. If you run a bar and let somebody get hammered in it and then they go out and crash into somebody, you (as well as the boozer) will be held liable. Same concept here. As 90% of the public is in favor of this, and the NRA used to be in favor of it, I'm not sure what hold up is?
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Rover said:
hold people criminally liable if their gun is used by someone else in a crime
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That is a terrible idea. Unless you can prove someone provided the gun to the person with knowledge of criminal intent or the person couldn't legally own a gun...

Sorry, but if I have a gun in my house that I rarely see and it turns up in Minneapolis, stolen without my knowledge, then I should have absolutely no liability.
 
dxmnkd316 said:
That is a terrible idea. Unless you can prove someone provided the gun to the person with knowledge of criminal intent or the person couldn't legally own a gun...

Sorry, but if I have a gun in my house that I rarely see and it turns up in Minneapolis, stolen without my knowledge, then I should have absolutely no liability.
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You bear some responsibility for what you choose to bring into the household. If you're digging up your back yard for a pool and hit the gas line, thus blowing up the neighborhood, saying "I didn't know it was there" isn't going to cut it.

Similarly, you have a duty as a gun owner to secure your firearms. Don't do that and you're liable. Now, if your gun is stolen, report it within a reasonable timeframe. Obviously there are exceptions to every rule, such as if you were on vacation all week when you got ripped off and didn't know about it until you got home. Guns aren't toys, and people need to get serious about handling them.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

I disagree the overall premise, however, I will say there should be cases where the person IS held liable. Say a gun is stored on top of the kitchen table (to use an extreme example). Your son has neighbor kid over and while they are playing with it, the gun goes off and maims or kills the neighbor kid. That gun owner should be held liable.

If someone steals my gun and I don't notice it (say I don't like to have the gun out but once every so often to clean it) for weeks, how can I be held liable? What if I have it stored away, not locked up, but stored away and don't notice it's missing? That's a path I don't want to go down.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Rover said:
Too many righties are trying to make this about the assault weapons ban. I'm all for that, but its not my primary concern. Get background checks on every sale, crack down on enforcement, and as has been mentioned hold people criminally liable if their gun is used by someone else in a crime. If you run a bar and let somebody get hammered in it and then they go out and crash into somebody, you (as well as the boozer) will be held liable. Same concept here. As 90% of the public is in favor of this, and the NRA used to be in favor of it, I'm not sure what hold up is?
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Did you ever think that it might be because too many lefties are trying to make this about the assault weapons ban? After all, it was that lame crackpot I have to call a governor that yelled and screamed about the number of bullets needed to take out an 8-pointer.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Here's a better example. Should a person who's car is stolen be held liable for all of the crimes committed with the vehicle? I think it's quite obvious the answer should be a resounding "no".
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

dxmnkd316 said:
Here's a better example. Should a person who's car is stolen be held liable for all of the crimes committed with the vehicle? I think it's quite obvious the answer should be a resounding "no".
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If a vehicle is stolen or damaged, though, isn't liability typically associated with the owner of the location where the crime was committed, assuming it is not public domain? This is one of the reasons why many establishments prohibit overnight parking, because they don't want to be held responsible for overnight crimes potentially being committed on their lot.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

FlagDUDE08 said:
If a vehicle is stolen or damaged, though, isn't liability typically associated with the owner of the location where the crime was committed, assuming it is not public domain? This is one of the reasons why many establishments prohibit overnight parking, because they don't want to be held responsible for overnight crimes potentially being committed on their lot.
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I was thinking more along the lines of if the vehicle was stolen and used to rob a bank or the thief runs the car through a crowd of people.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Talk about "assault weapons" really ****es me off. They don't exist. It is a made up term that doesn't even have a definition. People throw it around like they know what it means, but that is impossible, because no one knows what it means, because is has no meaning.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

dxmnkd316 said:
I disagree the overall premise, however, I will say there should be cases where the person IS held liable. Say a gun is stored on top of the kitchen table (to use an extreme example). Your son has neighbor kid over and while they are playing with it, the gun goes off and maims or kills the neighbor kid. That gun owner should be held liable.

If someone steals my gun and I don't notice it (say I don't like to have the gun out but once every so often to clean it) for weeks, how can I be held liable? What if I have it stored away, not locked up, but stored away and don't notice it's missing? That's a path I don't want to go down.
Click to expand...

Exactly the situation you describe happened while I was working in Omaha. Guy leaves a loaded .45 on top of his refrigerator. Later, his middle school age kid and some buddies were goofing around in the kitchen and. . .you can guess the rest.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Old Pio said:
Exactly the situation you describe happened while I was working in Omaha. Guy leaves a loaded .45 on top of his refrigerator. Later, his middle school age kid and some buddies were goofing around in the kitchen and. . .you can guess the rest.
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Mommy, what's this funny looking thing in the cookie jar? :p:D
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

bigblue_dl said:
Talk about "assault weapons" really ****es me off. They don't exist. It is a made up term that doesn't even have a definition. People throw it around like they know what it means, but that is impossible, because no one knows what it means, because is has no meaning.
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And the accompanying question is: "why does anybody need a knockoff of an M-16?" Nobody needs such a weapon. In the same sense that nobody needs a Corvette. But these sexy looking weapons are marketed to a public, many of whom apparantly want to own them. Just as the sexy looking, over powered and overpriced Corvette is marketed to a public, at least some of whom want to own them.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

bigblue_dl said:
Talk about "assault weapons" really ****es me off. They don't exist. It is a made up term that doesn't even have a definition. People throw it around like they know what it means, but that is impossible, because no one knows what it means, because is has no meaning.
Click to expand...

I beg to differ. There are certain weapons that are specifically designed to kill mass quantities of humans in a matter of seconds. If those aren't assault weapons that I don't know what is.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Old Pio said:
And the accompanying question is: "why does anybody need a knockoff of an M-16?" Nobody needs such a weapon. In the same sense that nobody needs a Corvette. But these sexy looking weapons are marketed to a public, many of whom apparantly want to own them. Just as the sexy looking, over powered and overpriced Corvette is marketed to a public, at least some of whom want to own them.
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Hey now, overpriced may be a sin, but there's NOTHING wrong with "over-powered". *Tim Allen simian grunt*
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

ScoobyDoo said:
I beg to differ. There are certain weapons that are specifically designed to kill mass quantities of humans in a matter of seconds. If those aren't assault weapons that I don't know what is.
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Any semi-automatic rifle can do that. Including the ones with cosmetic features that make them look like "assault" weapons. The fully automatic military weapons you're evidently referring to are already illegal.

Even omnicience has its limitations. Colt and Ruger, et al, are selling weapons they've designed to "kill mass quantities of humans?" Really?
 
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Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

walrus said:
Do you work for NBC? you like to skew stuff also? Who said nothing could be done to save lives? Whatever that road is you commute on around the Twin Cities could be shut down, with all the shooting deaths that happen on that stretch of road(no doubt with "assault rifles") it would be a start. Don't look for the shooters, just shut the road down, that would save lives
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The right often sees facts as bias. Chicago actually does have a fairly moderate crime rate. Maybe its my fault for not posting 2 shootings in New Orleans for every Chicago post Pio makes.

Oh...and if its not assault and clips ban...or gun registration...what is your way to save lives?
 
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