The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

[Tipsy McStagger]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

If we've learned one thing, it's that BC clearly has struggled in the NCAAs against western teams of late.

As for attendance, they're pretty much disasters everywhere. From dumpster fires (Cincy, St. Louis, etc.) to not good (Worcester). The whole model needs to be blown up.

We can only point out Western teams flaming out in the tourney, because when it happens to BC it doesn't matter. Got it.

Same year, on their home ice, Yale as the overall #1 seed squeaked out an OT win against the Atlantic Hockey champion and then got drubbed by UMD.

As much as I enjoyed the Gophers losses to Holy Cross and Yale, let's not act like they are the only instances of a 1 seed losing to a clearly inferior team.

 

[Slap Shot]

I have to disagree. Going forward, you have a brand new host in Fargo and a host in South Bend because no other sites bid in the west. That's directly tied...

You don't know that and it's still presumptuous to predict what the NCAA will do all in the name of attendance.

 

[goblue78]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

on their home ice, Yale as the overall #1 seed squeaked out an OT win against the Atlantic Hockey champion and then got drubbed by UMD.

Just to be clear, Webster Bank Center is not Yale's home ice. They've played 4 games there and won only one. They even lost to Sacred Heart (who's actually closer to Bridgeport) in a regular season game in 2011.

 

[Numbers]

You don't know that and it's still presumptuous to predict what the NCAA will do all in the name of attendance.

NCAA themselves said they went with Notre Dame because there were no other bids. That means Toledo didn't bid, Cincinnati didn't bid, Grand Rapids didn't bid, Green Bay didn't bid,...

Since those have all hosted before, why not bid? One big possibility is that they can't make money...

Fargo is interesting to me. Obviously, Grand Forks is out because of the Sioux logos still at Englestad Arena. No Colorado bid? No Duluth?

But I agree about guessing at what NCAA will do about attendance in the west. We don't really know if they think it is a problem or not.

 

[darker98]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

NCAA themselves said they went with Notre Dame because there were no other bids. That means Toledo didn't bid, Cincinnati didn't bid, Grand Rapids didn't bid, Green Bay didn't bid,...

Since those have all hosted before, why not bid? One big possibility is that they can't make money...

Fargo is interesting to me. Obviously, Grand Forks is out because of the Sioux logos still at Englestad Arena. No Colorado bid? No Duluth?

But I agree about guessing at what NCAA will do about attendance in the west. We don't really know if they think it is a problem or not.

Grand Forks is out because of Campus sites? I thought we satisfied the logo stuff.

 

[Numbers]

Grand Forks is out because of Campus sites? I thought we satisfied the logo stuff.

Sorry darker. I don't know for sure, but I was thinking that.NCAA is okay with that being home to UND games, but I don't know how you cover all that up for a regional. But, really, educate me. I have never been in the facility.

UND is host at Fargo, right? And, South Bend is on campus, so the campus sites thing may be changing again. There has been discussion in other threads about that.

 

[Slap Shot]

NCAA themselves said they went with Notre Dame because there were no other bids. That means Toledo didn't bid, Cincinnati didn't bid, Grand Rapids didn't bid, Green Bay didn't bid,...

Is every site going to bid every year? Are there future unfulfilled bids that should be complete by now?

 

[Numbers]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

Is every site going to bid every year? Are there future unfulfilled bids that should be complete by now?

I actually do not know if there have been other years where only one site bid. But, we do know that every site which has hosted a midwest region in the past that is east of the Minnesota/North Dakota chose not to bid. Of course we do not know all the reasons for that. But, it is true. If not for Notre Dame putting in a bid to host on campus, the committee had no place to place the regional.

As for the future, Cincinnati bid for 2016 and got the hosting responsibilities. That comes after also hosting this year, which is their first time.

 

[Cat lover]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

The whole host school thing is a big fat joke. The same schools getting to play close to home every year. While I
have no trouble letting the #1 seeds stay close to home its just pathetic that some teams can get a homefield advantage
just because the school is close to a city with a big rink. While most of the D1 schools can never get that chance. Sad that
a #4 seed can be a host and play at home against a #1 seed.

 

[Tipsy McStagger]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

NCAA themselves said they went with Notre Dame because there were no other bids. That means Toledo didn't bid, Cincinnati didn't bid, Grand Rapids didn't bid, Green Bay didn't bid,...

Since those have all hosted before, why not bid? One big possibility is that they can't make money...

Fargo is interesting to me. Obviously, Grand Forks is out because of the Sioux logos still at Englestad Arena. No Colorado bid? No Duluth?

But I agree about guessing at what NCAA will do about attendance in the west. We don't really know if they think it is a problem or not.

Until the popularity of the college hockey overall improves, why stay with this model that obviously doesn't work? What part of this system seems like it is effective? The ticket prices are prohibitive to draw in non-traditional fans, the locations in the West that aren't St. Paul and Grand Forks have been total disasters, the Eastern regionals rarely top 6,000 in attendance, and now this year they seem to want to destroy the bracket integrity and put the 5 seed in the region with the 1 seed.

 

[Numbers]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

Until the popularity of the college hockey overall improves, why stay with this model that obviously doesn't work? What part of this system seems like it is effective? The ticket prices are prohibitive to draw in non-traditional fans, the locations in the West that aren't St. Paul and Grand Forks have been total disasters, the Eastern regionals rarely top 6,000 in attendance, and now this year they seem to want to destroy the bracket integrity and put the 5 seed in the region with the 1 seed.

Tippsy,

I don't really think in the end that Wisconsin as a #5 overall will go to St Paul. No need for that. Lots of possibilities to fill the Xcel.

But as for your other point, I agree. The current thing with the 4 regions doesn't really work. St Paul works. Grand Forks would work, of NCAA was still ok with that. Denver hasn't worked. The Midwestern sites have been poor because there isn't enough close by interest in college hockey. Out east, Albany has had trouble. The rest I don't know about....

But I don't know what would be the best. There has been lots of discussion about it, and no real great answers that I can see.

I don't know anything about it, really, though. I have nothing to go on but numbers, because I don't really have an emotional connection to anyplace except Minnesota.

 

[Stauber1]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

You don't know that and it's still presumptuous to predict what the NCAA will do all in the name of attendance.

I don't know that as fact, I won't argue with that. But I think it is logical. The NCAA had to break its own rule because it had no other host options. Cinci is hosting 2 of the next 3, and tickets for this year's regional there are the cheapest I can remember in recent history ($40 gets you admission to all 3 games...compared to $90 in St. Paul). To me, that says that the Cinci site put up a relatively small amount of money to host. I think the NCAA cares about that, and I think they recognize it's tied to the lack of attendance in recent regionals. I also think history shows us that the committee considers attendance to some degree when placing teams.

Of course, this is only my opinion and people will draw their own conclusions.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

I don't know that as fact, I won't argue with that. But I think it is logical. The NCAA had to break its own rule because it had no other host options. Cinci is hosting 2 of the next 3, and tickets for this year's regional there are the cheapest I can remember recent history ($40 gets you admission to all 3 games...compared to $90 in St. Paul). To me, that says that the Cinci site put up a relatively small amount of money to host. I think the NCAA cares about that, and I think they recognize it's tied to the lack of attendance in recent regionals. I also think history shows us that the committee considers attendance to some degree when placing teams.

Of course, this is only my opinion and people will draw their own conclusions.

Or Cincinnati bid the same but think they can sell enough tickets at $40 to make it worthwhile. Many of us have contended the prices are one of the barriers to attendance numbers that even border on acceptable for some of these regionals. Maybe they figure they can draw more fans and clean up on concessions and parking. Maybe this model will set an example for sites like Grand Rapids that if they make ticket prices more reasonable they can still make a profit by selling more of them.

 

[Aerman]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

The whole host school thing is a big fat joke. The same schools getting to play close to home every year. While I
have no trouble letting the #1 seeds stay close to home its just pathetic that some teams can get a homefield advantage
just because the school is close to a city with a big rink. While most of the D1 schools can never get that chance. Sad that
a #4 seed can be a host and play at home against a #1 seed.

With few exceptions (like UVM), nearly every school in the east could choose to be a host and create their own favorable condition. If you're feeling bad for, say, BC, I ask why? Do you think by now Jerry hasn't figured out how this works? If they were that concerned with staying east they would work a deal with DCU (as BU has in the past) and host the regional. They haven't chosen to, so Jerry doesn't care that much or he can't get the support of his AD to do it. That's not the fault of anyone else.

A lot of the conversation on this thread is actually trending towards making it worse from an advantage perspective, leaning towards campus sites.

 

[Carmine Scarpaglia]

With few exceptions (like UVM), nearly every school in the east could choose to be a host and create their own favorable condition. If you're feeling bad for, say, BC, I ask why? Do you think by now Jerry hasn't figured out how this works? If they were that concerned with staying east they would work a deal with DCU (as BU has in the past) and host the regional. They haven't chosen to, so Jerry doesn't care that much or he can't get the support of his AD to do it. That's not the fault of anyone else.

A lot of the conversation on this thread is actually trending towards making it worse from an advantage perspective, leaning towards campus sites.

Worcester has been mandated to use Holy Cross as host institution for years now.

 

[MCgrad07]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

The more I read and think about this the more I want the regionals on campus. The issues I keep seeing are the following:

1. Price of regionals
I used to go to the Worcester regional every time it was there. It is about 20 minutes from my house and it was a great weekend. However, I got married, bought a house and the regional money is now spent on heating the house.

2. Attendance
With the price of the tickets being what the are families are gone. When I went to a regional in Manchester I spent $150 on tickets for two, family of four for $300 is absurd. Plus throw in parking, a few libations and easily $500+.

3. Host School
Watching four seeds get home ice is awful. BC in St. Louis with UNH playing in Manchester was dumb. Miami had 1/100 the fans being the one seed as UNH did as the four.

To solve these 3 main issues I say all four one seeds get home ice. Before the season every school needs to submit to the NCAA what rink they will use. So if BC wants to you the Garden or Minny wants to use the Xcel and can get it more power to them. At this point the N$$A is not making more money in Cincinnati opposed to Ann Arbor (probably less) so that's go on campus.

 

[claver2010]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

Agreed, status quo is broken.

Either go back to 2 super regionals or get them back on campus.

 

[johnk]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

Agreed, status quo is broken.

Either go back to 2 super regionals or get them back on campus.

I have always liked the 2 super regional idea. Logistically has some issues but I think the attendance would be decent anywhere on the 2nd day, knowing that you get to watch 2 games that decide half of the Frozen 4.

 

[MplsSioux]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

The more I read and think about this the more I want the regionals on campus. The issues I keep seeing are the following:

1. Price of regionals
I used to go to the Worcester regional every time it was there. It is about 20 minutes from my house and it was a great weekend. However, I got married, bought a house and the regional money is now spent on heating the house.

2. Attendance
With the price of the tickets being what the are families are gone. When I went to a regional in Manchester I spent $150 on tickets for two, family of four for $300 is absurd. Plus throw in parking, a few libations and easily $500+.

3. Host School
Watching four seeds get home ice is awful. BC in St. Louis with UNH playing in Manchester was dumb. Miami had 1/100 the fans being the one seed as UNH did as the four.

To solve these 3 main issues I say all four one seeds get home ice. Before the season every school needs to submit to the NCAA what rink they will use. So if BC wants to you the Garden or Minny wants to use the Xcel and can get it more power to them. At this point the N$$A is not making more money in Cincinnati opposed to Ann Arbor (probably less) so that's go on campus.

In every discussion about this issue, I always go back to this option. Let the #1 seeds host the regionals! Your idea of submitting the rink that they would use is a good one. I understand there is logistics involved with locking the rink down for the outside chance that the team is a #1 seed but, for example, if the X is unwilling to hold it than have it at Mariucci. And no, the advantage isn't too big for the #1 seed. We all know the parity that exists in college hockey and these teams earned and deserve to host at their home rink.

Let's not overthink this.

 

[LTsatch]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

In every discussion about this issue, I always go back to this option. Let the #1 seeds host the regionals! Your idea of submitting the rink that they would use is a good one. I understand there is logistics involved with locking the rink down for the outside chance that the team is a #1 seed but, for example, if the X is unwilling to hold it than have it at Mariucci. And no, the advantage isn't too big for the #1 seed. We all know the parity that exists in college hockey and these teams earned and deserve to host at their home rink.

Let's not overthink this.

I would think logistics and planning are the greatest barrier to having the regional sites determined by the one seed location. The seeds may change on the last week, not nearly enough time for the host to plan such an event. Can you imagine BC saying "Hey we need to reserve the Garden in April, beause we might be there depending on how well we do this year". I don't think the facilities could just put aside a day, just in case. Ticket sales would also have to be limited to the final week as well.

I also do not like the idea of super regionals as it cuts the field to eight teams if I am correct.