The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

[QUAlum2004]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

I'm sorry but this will never happen. Think of the tussle the NCAA and Boston have had over the ice for a frozen four. We're talking about just the frozen water with paint in between it.

We all seem to agree change is necessary in some degree but I'm starting to realize little change will ever happen. Only a select amount of schools can host regionals on campus. Ones that can will get regionals in the near future.

My big beef is the ridiculousness of a 1 seed being sent across the country because a 4 seed in there conference is hosting. I get the risk involved with hosting a regional and that's the reward but why are we gunna send Union to Cincinnati if Yale gets in. When do we begin to value a teams 35 games they've played over the course of a season over a school that chose to hop in bed with the NCAA. I think we sometimes devalue the regular season too much in some regards. 35 games give us a better picture than 4 and that's why I will always be in favor of protecting the teams that deserved it throughout their regular season

NCAA basketball does not allow teams that are the host team in either the first/2nd round or regional to even be in that region. Wonder in college hockey should consider something like this though that may drive attendance down.

 

[Patman]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

NCAA basketball does not allow teams that are the host team in either the first/2nd round or regional to even be in that region. Wonder in college hockey should consider something like this though that may drive attendance down.

not yet, but I could see it being seed dependent... 1 or 2 yes, 3 or 4 no guarantee.

 

[MplsSioux]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

May be too small if some populat teams make it. A better example is Yale or Quinnipiac, no way they can host at home, probably 75 percent of the D-1 schools would have to host somewhere other than their home barns due to capacity limitations. You can't reserve the larger sites needed a week in advance.

75%?! How many empty seats are required at an NCAA regional? I've always said I'd prefer 2,500 full capacity to 2,500 half capacity which is generous considering some regionals games I've had the displeasure of watching. Why continue to have crappy atmospheres in arenas that don't draw any fans?

I say have a cut-off at 2,500 seats so in that situation you're cutting out Union, AIC, RIT, Niagra, Princeton, UCONN, Canisius, Mercyhurst, Holy Cross, Bentley, Robert Morris, & Sacred Heart. That's 20% of the arenas in college hockey that will have to find an alternate place to host if they are the #1 seed, and let's be honest outside of Union I don't see any of those other teams running into that problem all that often.

If one of the teams does start to compete for a #1 seed regularly maybe they'll find it useful to fund a new arena

 

[BigAl]

75%?! How many empty seats are required at an NCAA regional? I've always said I'd prefer 2,500 full capacity to 2,500 half capacity which is generous considering some regionals games I've had the displeasure of watching. Why continue to have crappy atmospheres in arenas that don't draw any fans?

I say have a cut-off at 2,500 seats so in that situation you're cutting out Union, AIC, RIT, Niagra, Princeton, UCONN, Canisius, Mercyhurst, Holy Cross, Bentley, Robert Morris, & Sacred Heart. That's 20% of the arenas in college hockey that will have to find an alternate place to host if they are the #1 seed, and let's be honest outside of Union I don't see any of those other teams running into that problem all that often.

If one of the teams does start to compete for a #1 seed regularly maybe they'll find it useful to fund a new arena

2500 is simply not enough. The NCAA and the hosts certainly won't turn down a chance to make more money. 2500 is cutting a lot of teams home attendance down. I really don't think they should ever play in an arena below 6000 capacity and that's pushing it. I say that because what happens if you put the Midwest regional at a place with 3000 seats (the Midwest got only 3000 at the St Cloud/Miami game) and then Minnesota makes it. Huge problem. There's only a few schools that can host on campus regionals (ie No Dak, Notre Dame, Minny, etc) and remember these decisions cannot be made a couple weeks before, they must be made years in advance

 

[Steve_MN]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

NCAA basketball does not allow teams that are the host team in either the first/2nd round or regional to even be in that region. Wonder in college hockey should consider something like this though that may drive attendance down.

For men's D1 hoops, yes. As far as I'm aware, that is the lone tournament that the NCAA runs that way, and they can do it because the fanbases travel enough to fill whatever arena they're in anyway, which obviously is NOT the case for hockey.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

A loss tonight will eliminate Vermont. Boston University faces elimination tomorrow, as does the loser of the Maine v Merrimack game. As posted earlier, Notre Dame could lose and still qualify for the national tournament.

 

[LTsatch]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

A loss tonight will eliminate Vermont. Boston University faces elimination tomorrow, as does the loser of the Maine v Merrimack game. As posted earlier, Notre Dame could lose and still qualify for the national tournament.

Headline in the New Haven Register today that states Yale has to run the table at the ECAC's to make it would you call that correct?

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

2500 is simply not enough. The NCAA and the hosts certainly won't turn down a chance to make more money. 2500 is cutting a lot of teams home attendance down. I really don't think they should ever play in an arena below 6000 capacity and that's pushing it. I say that because what happens if you put the Midwest regional at a place with 3000 seats (the Midwest got only 3000 at the St Cloud/Miami game) and then Minnesota makes it. Huge problem. There's only a few schools that can host on campus regionals (ie No Dak, Notre Dame, Minny, etc) and remember these decisions cannot be made a couple weeks before, they must be made years in advance

One thing no one seems to care about is that the NCAA is just making up the numbers for some of these games. It was possible to count the crowd last year in Toledo if one was so inclined (and since Notre Dame forgot to show up for their game against St. Cloud, I was inclined) and there were about 1500 people in the place for the Saturday games. Fewer still for the Sunday game because all the Notre Dame fans were gone and Minnesota state brought virtually no one to the games to begin with. There were maybe 1200 people there Sunday. I know that the boxscore attendance is supposedly tickets sold, but the idea that as many people bought a ticket and didn't go as actually did (the boxscore listed the crowd as 2460) is a falsehood. I also know that some of the tickets sold were for both days, but many people bought tickets as walkups for the day. It isn't just college hockey that is inventing these numbers out of whole cloth, almost all sports are doing it, but rest assured, college hockey most definitely is.

I have no idea why anyone is bidding on these games anymore and more and more I am beginning to think there are other things involved than just a bottom line of how much $$$ are they giving to the NCAA to host versus how much $$$ they can make selling tickets and concessions. I also don't know how many more games it will take with the kinds of crowds we saw in Grand Rapids or Van Andel or St Louis (or this year in Cincy) to finally convince everyone that we cannot have all things for all people. Neutral/quasi neutral site regionals in the west do not work in any area that isn't central to a college hockey crowd. You can have bracket integrity, or you can try (and usually fail) to have some sort of environment. Unless you get really lucky with the pairing you cannots have both in our current setup. Nearly every other NCAA championship is conducted on home turf, for both opening and later rounds, before a pre-determined finals site. Why should hockey be any different? I can't envision anytime soon hockey making 4 neutral site regionals work. Either accept the dead buildings more often than not, or move back to campus sites for games before the FF. It may not be the fairest setup to all teams, but no where is it written that all things in life will be fair.

ETA that Minnesota made Van Andel last year and only 4300 total tickets were supposedly sold for the entire weekend (WITH North Dakota also in the building).

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

Headline in the New Haven Register today that states Yale has to run the table at the ECAC's to make it would you call that correct?

I think they can make it if they get to the championship game if they sweep through the first and quarters. No 3rd place game this year, so a loss in SF would be hard to overcome.

 

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

For men's D1 hoops, yes. As far as I'm aware, that is the lone tournament that the NCAA runs that way, and they can do it because the fanbases travel enough to fill whatever arena they're in anyway, which obviously is NOT the case for hockey.

I don't think it is a matter of fanbases traveling as much as it is there are still a lot more casual fans for college basketball versus virtually none for hockey. Notre Dame could host an NCAA regional in basketball and likely the crowd would be very good as many locals would show, even with the Irish out of the tournament or in some other location per current rules. But trust me, if the Notre Dame hockey team is not in the NCAAs next year, the Compton will be empty unless the NCAA places 4 teams there from Ohio or Michigan in the building. And even then, look for the typical crowd we have seen in most recent seasons in the western half of the regionals. I'll be there, but nearly every one of the other 5000 people who show up there most nights will be no where near the place.

 

[Steve_MN]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

I don't think it is a matter of fanbases traveling as much as it is there are still a lot more casual fans for college basketball versus virtually none for hockey. Notre Dame could host an NCAA regional in basketball and likely the crowd would be very good as many locals would show, even with the Irish out of the tournament or in some other location per current rules. But trust me, if the Notre Dame hockey team is not in the NCAAs next year, the Compton will be empty unless the NCAA places 4 teams there from Ohio or Michigan in the building. And even then, look for the typical crowd we have seen in most recent seasons in the western half of the regionals. I'll be there, but nearly every one of the other 5000 people who show up there most nights will be no where near the place.

Good point. Between the two factors (neither of which really exists for anything BUT D1 Mens Hoops) that tournament can get away with that. The other tournaments can't.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

Eliminated:
UMass
Alabama-Huntsville

Eliminated with a loss tonight:
AIC
Army
Boston University
Brown
Clarkson
Dartmouth
Harvard
Holy Cross
Lake Superior
Maine
Merrimack
Sacred Heart

4 WCHA teams are contesting the final playoff spot. Alaska-Anchorage, Bemidji or Northern Michigan could be eliminated with a loss and LSSU win.

Current pairwise
1 Minnesota
2 Boston College
3t Union
3t St. Cloud State
5 Wisconsin
6 Ferris State
7 Quinnipiac
8 Massachusetts-Lowell
9 North Dakota
10 Notre Dame
11 Providence
12t Michigan
12t Vermont
14 Cornell
15t Minnesota State
---
15t Northeastern
15t Minnesota-Duluth

 

[Felger]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

Question for Priceless or any of the other PWR experts.

Where do you think the "safe" line is as of this weekend? I would guess around 8 or 9th (UML/UND) but I'm nowhere near as expert as you guys are. Or is it too soon to tell, with so many potential three game series left?

Thanks

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

Question for Priceless or any of the other PWR experts.

Where do you think the "safe" line is as of this weekend? I would guess around 8 or 9th (UML/UND) but I'm nowhere near as expert as you guys are. Or is it too soon to tell, with so many potential three game series left?

Thanks

Off the top of my head I would put it at seven. Too many weird things can still happen. Barring weird upsets, probably the top 11will make it. The 12-19 teams are vying for 4 spots (minus autobid upsets)

 

[Felger]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

Off the top of my head I would put it at seven. Too many weird things can still happen. Barring weird upsets, probably the top 11will make it. The 12-19 teams are vying for 4 spots (minus autobid upsets)

Thanks. If you saw my math SAT scores you would know why I asked an expert.

 

[sterlippo1]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

not yet, but I could see it being seed dependent... 1 or 2 yes, 3 or 4 no guarantee.

good idea

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

[B]Bridgeport (Yale)	Worcester (Holy Cross)		Cincinnati (Miami)	St Paul (Minnesota)[/B]
Union			Boston College			Wisconsin		Minnesota
Ferris State		Quinnipiac			St Cloud		Lowell
Providence		Notre Dame			Vermont			North Dakota
Northeastern		Michigan			Cornell			Mercyhurst

 

[manurespreader]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

For men's D1 hoops, yes. As far as I'm aware, that is the lone tournament that the NCAA runs that way, and they can do it because the fanbases travel enough to fill whatever arena they're in anyway, which obviously is NOT the case for hockey.

If you've ever been to a regional for bb, it is almost never full. Only the bottom few rows, unless it is in NC.

 

[unh1982]

[B]Bridgeport (Yale)	Worcester (Holy Cross)		Cincinnati (Miami)	St Paul (Minnesota)[/B]
Union			Boston College			Wisconsin		Minnesota
Ferris State		Quinnipiac			St Cloud		Lowell
Providence		Notre Dame			Vermont			North Dakota
Northeastern		Michigan			Cornell			Mercyhurst

does the NCAA predictor come out tonight.

 

[Patman]

Re: The 2014 Pairwise, Bracketology and History Thread`

does the NCAA predictor come out tonight.

not with big10 games left... even then USCHO usually waits until the final weekend