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The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

Kepler said:
Voter fraud is a myth with no historical support.
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For a second, I had to check the calendar to make sure it wasn't April 1. I trust that you have the dignity and class to acknowledge the counter-examples.....

There were several elections in Cook County with Daley Sr. as mayor in which voter turn-out was close to or actually exceeded 100%. The newspaper stories aren't on line and I don't live there any more, and so I'm not going to do a microfiche search in the public library.

I found multiple hits when I entered "franken recount more votes cast than registered voters". Here's the most detailed:

http://www.minnesotamajority.org/TheIssues/ElectionIntegrity/tabid/188/Default.aspx : :
Using the SVRS list provided by the Minnesota Secretary of state, we found evidence of nearly 100 cases in which voter registration and voter history records strongly indicate that a single voter may have voted more than once in a single election. We’ve identified thousands of additional voter records that merit additional investigation.....

Using a standard deceased matching service commonly utilized by mailing houses, we discovered thousands of individuals flagged as deceased who are still on the active voter rolls. Following the 2008 election, we were able to check the SVRS voter history against a list of dead voters and found thousands of potential matches. Further investigation into a small sampling turned up (high confidence match) death records for several voters indicating that they had died before voting in the 2008 election.
....
While it is exceedingly difficult to discover and prove who the perpetrators of fraud are, there is a mountain of evidence that indicates illegal voting is occurring. Prosecutions and convictions of voter fraud are rare because our system makes it nearly impossible to ascertain the identity of fraudulent voters.
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Perhaps you were trying to suggest that the paucity of convictions somehow was evidence that no wrongdoing was occurring??



A man walked into Eric Holder's home precinct, told them he was Eric Holder, and was given a ballot. he did not cast it since that would be illegal; the fact that he was given the ballot is indicative, no?

Again, multiple sources are available, here's one.

http://www.greeleygazette.com/press/?p=14110


I do know from people who were directly involved that the SEIU sent people out into Bridgeport CT after the polls were supposed to be closed to bring additional people to polling places in Nov 2008. The polls were held open after closing time because they "ran out" of ballots and "had to use" emergency supplies brought in at the last minute. I've posted those links elsewhere and I'm too tired right now to find them again.

Oh, yeah, a list of voter fraud convictions. I remember a group of people registered to vote in NY driving to Ohio to rent a house there, use the rental papers for same-day registration, and voted. they were caught. I can't find that particular story, but I did find this:

http://www.rnla.org/votefraud.asp

EDIT: <strike>PS I had no idea there even was such a thing as a Republican lawyer...</strike>*


While I hope you respond with dignity and class, what are the odds you either ignore the data entirely because it's inconvenient, or try to brazen your way out of your statement?





* that was immature and uncalled for. I apologize to Rudy Giuliani, Chris Christie, and all the other prosecutors, states' attorneys, and corporate lawyers who practice law ethically and well.
 
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Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

SJHovey said:
But if you can prove Kepler wrong, at least in the state of Minnesota, it could be worth some coin. :eek:
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Yeah, except note the technicality: it's not enough to prove voter fraud (e.g., more votes were counted than there were registered voters to cast them. To me that is "proof" that fraud did occur).

If you read the fine print, you actually have to prove the identity of the person committing the fraud. That's an entirely different standard.
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

SJHovey said:
Voter fraud isn't a myth, but I'm also not convinced it's a problem anywhere near the proportion represented to justify things such as constitutional amendments.
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Agreed. Photo ID is a reasonable compromise to most non-demagog types, I'd think.....:) It's free, it's easy to obtain, and it's require for so many other purposes already anyway.
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

Old Pio said:
How would you "prove" it to the satisfaction of the ACLU? The people really in the know about voter fraud are the ones engaging in it. Recent reports show hundreds of felons who were not eligible to vote, did so and almost certainly gave the bulk of their votes to the "comedian."
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i've voted twice. gone in in the morning, then again after work. those blue hairs don't pay any mind.. go to your ward table. "what street?" they turn the pages... you stop them, 'that's me there. #468'. big pencil draws a line through it. you get a ballot. then go back at night. "what street?".. 'that's me there." another line.
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

of course, i write in my own name for every office :D. one year 'mookie' got 2 votes :p
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

state of hockey said:
Let's just go with the Aussies idea. It is a crime to not vote.
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Bad idea. And unconstitutional. If it's "political speech" to burn an American flag, it's certainly "political speech" to say, in effect, "screw you all." Besides, do we really want another made up non-crime?
 
Old Pio said:
Bad idea. And unconstitutional. If it's "political speech" to burn an American flag, it's certainly "political speech" to say, in effect, "screw you all." Besides, do we really want another made up non-crime?
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I wasn't being entirely serious. The Australians have some wacky ideas. I think it's because they are upside-down.
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

Bill said:
If voter fraud was truly a myth, there would be no reason for anyone to oppose showing a photo ID to vote.
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So long as the photo ID is free, easy to get, and available to all citizens equally, sure.

But most voter ID laws require a charge for the ID unless you specifically say it's for voting purposes, the DMV hours are limited, and often are more readily available in rural counties than urban ones.

Shocking, I know.
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

I should rephrase. the DMV is generally more crowded in urban areas because there are more employees per capita in rural areas than urban ones. (for instance, many states have one DMV office per county. Obviously, an office in BFE will be less crowded and more accessable than the same office in an urban county with 1000x the population).

And there's no doubt the DMV is generally open only 9-5, M-F when everyone else is also working. It may be open Saturday mornings as well, but good luck ever getting through the line on those days.
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

I guess I've never had an issue getting to the DMV. Ever. And I've lived in the suburban areas of the Twin Cities. I understand I'm not poor and I have easy access to transportation. However, I believe low income individuals can apply for reduced or free bus passes within the Cities. So I don't see an issue there. I'm also not able to take off work to go during weekdays. So I'm stuck on Saturday mornings. I've also never had problems with lines at the DMV. Usually in and out within 10 minutes. THere was one time I waited maybe 25 minutes, but nothing outrageous. Even when I had to get a passport.
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

dxmnkd316 said:
DMV hours are limited? Define limited.
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As I said, knock down one objection and they'll come up with another. In some states officials are going to retirement facilities, community centers and other places where folks might have trouble getting to the DMV to make it more convenient to get the ID.

But the object of these endless objections is not to make certain everyone is treated exactly the same (an obvious impossibility) it is to strangle any effort to end this cheating. And it's Democrats right in the forefront, spouting their usual crapola about "protecting the rights of the poor and minorities," when in fact the goal is to keep the pipeline of illegal voters and votes open.

UNO fan suggests it's a great insight that DMV offices in less urban areas are not as busy. As usual, a death grip on the obvious. And, I suppose, he attaches some significance to that fact. Probably racism. Besides there's just NO WAY WE CAN EVER STOP CHEATING AT THE POLLS WITHOUT INCONVENIENCING SOMEBODY, SO WHY EVEN TRY?
 
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Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

dxmnkd316 said:
I guess I've never had an issue getting to the DMV. Ever. And I've lived in the suburban areas of the Twin Cities. I understand I'm not poor and I have easy access to transportation. However, I believe low income individuals can apply for reduced or free bus passes within the Cities. So I don't see an issue there. I've also never had problems with lines at the DMV. Usually in and out within 10 minutes. THere was one time I waited maybe 25 minutes, but
nothing outrageous. Even when I had to get a passport.
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I'd agree if I was still in Nebraska, though they closed a few offices in the Omaha area in the last few years so it might have changed since the last time I went to one there.

Getting my Iowa license took an hour, and that was on a random Wednesday morning at 10 am that I was free to go to because I was working from home for that week while my office was being renovated. There's literally 2 DMV stations for Polk County, and one is for renewals only. So for anyone needing a new ID or a commercial license, there's one station for about 350,000 people.
 
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