Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August
Vote for the Kennedy of your choice, but vote!!
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The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August
- Thread starter joecct
- Start date
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August
I'm not entirely sure about the last bit. But I can see where some people come from when they say they are uneasy with any restrictions placed on voting. I understand that.
However, I think something beyond, "Yes, that's me there. Line #24." without any sort of proof is a bit too easy to game. Whether or not there is hard evidence of this occurring in the past.
We can make it virtually free and extremely easy to get SOME sort of identification for someone if they truly want to get it. Free bus passes. Free ID cards. Help filling out the application. Home appointments. Whatever. I'm willing to pay a slightly higher tax bill (it can't be more than a couple dollars) to enable everyone to get this ID.
Bottom line is, I'm not opposed to voter IDs.
I'm not entirely sure about the last bit. But I can see where some people come from when they say they are uneasy with any restrictions placed on voting. I understand that.
However, I think something beyond, "Yes, that's me there. Line #24." without any sort of proof is a bit too easy to game. Whether or not there is hard evidence of this occurring in the past.
We can make it virtually free and extremely easy to get SOME sort of identification for someone if they truly want to get it. Free bus passes. Free ID cards. Help filling out the application. Home appointments. Whatever. I'm willing to pay a slightly higher tax bill (it can't be more than a couple dollars) to enable everyone to get this ID.
Bottom line is, I'm not opposed to voter IDs.
unofan
Well-known member
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August
Tell me, which would you find less burdensome? Having to stand in line for 10 minutes to get a free photo ID to vote, or having to stand in line for 2 hours to get that same ID?
If they let you use things like college student IDs, bank cards that have photos, or the like, it'd at least be more likely to be truly about curtailing voter fraud and a less obvious attempt at voter suppression.
Tell me, which would you find less burdensome? Having to stand in line for 10 minutes to get a free photo ID to vote, or having to stand in line for 2 hours to get that same ID?
If they let you use things like college student IDs, bank cards that have photos, or the like, it'd at least be more likely to be truly about curtailing voter fraud and a less obvious attempt at voter suppression.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August
I'm going to vehemently disagree with you here. (ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE ALERT) I have yet to meet someone that's for voter IDs that is doing to as a means to suppress voters. That's a scare tactic line of BS I don't buy at all.
I'm going to vehemently disagree with you here. (ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE ALERT) I have yet to meet someone that's for voter IDs that is doing to as a means to suppress voters. That's a scare tactic line of BS I don't buy at all.
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August
national smart card? use for airport security. use for food stamps. use for voting. picture id.
let haliberton bid for the contract!
national smart card? use for airport security. use for food stamps. use for voting. picture id.
let haliberton bid for the contract!
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August
And what's your proposal for ending this horrific problem? And what does it have to do with the matter at hand? It should be possible to set up special hours for folks getting only the iD cards for voting and laying on some temporary help to get through the busy periods. Plus, as I've indicated, some states are going to Muhammad to issue the cards.
When I first moved to Houston in the early 80's, 50,000 people a month were moving to the city! You can just imagine what that did to the DMV offices, which are never staffed for the convenience of the public anyway. You had to get appointments. But nobody suggested because the offices located outside the city were less crowded that it was a plot or a problem or something that needed to be fixed. That's just what happens when you have a huge influx of people.
So although I wouldn't want to stand in line for two minutes, let alone two hours, if that's what I had to do to vote, I'd do it. Especially since you'd only have to do it once. We've eliminated in person voter registration and replaced it with post cards. Motor voter is another step "forward." Now asking voters to identify themselves is an insurmountable burdon and evidence of Jim Crow. Bollocks. Calling it "voter suppression" doesn't make it so. That's just more libstain b.s.
And what's your proposal for ending this horrific problem? And what does it have to do with the matter at hand? It should be possible to set up special hours for folks getting only the iD cards for voting and laying on some temporary help to get through the busy periods. Plus, as I've indicated, some states are going to Muhammad to issue the cards.
When I first moved to Houston in the early 80's, 50,000 people a month were moving to the city! You can just imagine what that did to the DMV offices, which are never staffed for the convenience of the public anyway. You had to get appointments. But nobody suggested because the offices located outside the city were less crowded that it was a plot or a problem or something that needed to be fixed. That's just what happens when you have a huge influx of people.
So although I wouldn't want to stand in line for two minutes, let alone two hours, if that's what I had to do to vote, I'd do it. Especially since you'd only have to do it once. We've eliminated in person voter registration and replaced it with post cards. Motor voter is another step "forward." Now asking voters to identify themselves is an insurmountable burdon and evidence of Jim Crow. Bollocks. Calling it "voter suppression" doesn't make it so. That's just more libstain b.s.
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mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August
sign 'em up!! (of course, when i was a holder of a college id i was in another state and mailed back my ballot to PA. so this wouldn't have helped moi)
sign 'em up!! (of course, when i was a holder of a college id i was in another state and mailed back my ballot to PA. so this wouldn't have helped moi)
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August
I'm all about this. The U of M's U Card serves this exact purpose. Meal card, ID, means to log on to library computers, a charge card at the bookstore, a charge card for printing, an actual library card, access to the buildings, a card to verify your student football ticket was legit. It might have even been a bus pass.
national smart card? use for airport security. use for food stamps. use for voting. picture id.
let haliberton bid for the contract!
I'm all about this. The U of M's U Card serves this exact purpose. Meal card, ID, means to log on to library computers, a charge card at the bookstore, a charge card for printing, an actual library card, access to the buildings, a card to verify your student football ticket was legit. It might have even been a bus pass.
G
Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August
Horrific problem? There's more actual evidence of global warming and alien visitors than there is voter fraud, but of course voter fraud solutions need to be fast tracked coz it's such a pressing issue.
Blather all you want. Call people names. But don't expect anyone who can actually think for themselves to see this as anything other than voter suppression for political gain.
I mean, even that moron in the Pennsylvania legislature admitted as much, not that we needed anyone to admit it.
And of course, this isn't a wider political strategy by those who pull the puppets' strings. No WAY! It's just a big coincidence that all of those states decided it was a big deal at the same moment in history. Right? Just a coincidence.
Win however you have to. Just don't complain when you get what these people are shooting for. At some point, they won't need your vote anymore and if you aren't rich, they won't need you for anything anymore.
Except to buy their products and services, of course.
Horrific problem? There's more actual evidence of global warming and alien visitors than there is voter fraud, but of course voter fraud solutions need to be fast tracked coz it's such a pressing issue.
Blather all you want. Call people names. But don't expect anyone who can actually think for themselves to see this as anything other than voter suppression for political gain.
I mean, even that moron in the Pennsylvania legislature admitted as much, not that we needed anyone to admit it.
And of course, this isn't a wider political strategy by those who pull the puppets' strings. No WAY! It's just a big coincidence that all of those states decided it was a big deal at the same moment in history. Right? Just a coincidence.
Win however you have to. Just don't complain when you get what these people are shooting for. At some point, they won't need your vote anymore and if you aren't rich, they won't need you for anything anymore.
Except to buy their products and services, of course.
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Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August
Meet the Majority Leader of the PA House (at about 1:58)
<table style='font:11px arial; color:#333; background-color:#f5f5f5' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='512' height='340'><tbody><tr style='background-color:#e5e5e5' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com'>The Daily Show with Jon Stewart</a></td><td style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; text-align:right; font-weight:bold;'>Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c</td></tr><tr style='height:14px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;' colspan='2'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-august-8-2012/wizards-of-i-d----jessica-williams---voter-i-d--laws'>Wizards of I.D. - Voter I.D. Laws</a></td></tr><tr style='height:14px; background-color:#353535' valign='middle'><td colspan='2' style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; width:512px; overflow:hidden; text-align:right'><a target='_blank' style='color:#96deff; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/'>www.thedailyshow.com</a></td></tr><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><embed style='display:block' src='http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:comedycentral.com:417578' width='512' height='288' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' wmode='window' allowFullscreen='true' flashvars='autoPlay=false' allowscriptaccess='always' allownetworking='all' bgcolor='#000000'></embed></td></tr><tr style='height:18px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><table style='margin:0px; text-align:center' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='100%' height='100%'><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/'>Daily Show Full Episodes</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.indecisionforever.com/'>Political Humor & Satire Blog</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.facebook.com/thedailyshow'>The Daily Show on Facebook</a></td></tr></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
Meet the Majority Leader of the PA House (at about 1:58)
<table style='font:11px arial; color:#333; background-color:#f5f5f5' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='512' height='340'><tbody><tr style='background-color:#e5e5e5' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com'>The Daily Show with Jon Stewart</a></td><td style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; text-align:right; font-weight:bold;'>Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c</td></tr><tr style='height:14px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;' colspan='2'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-august-8-2012/wizards-of-i-d----jessica-williams---voter-i-d--laws'>Wizards of I.D. - Voter I.D. Laws</a></td></tr><tr style='height:14px; background-color:#353535' valign='middle'><td colspan='2' style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; width:512px; overflow:hidden; text-align:right'><a target='_blank' style='color:#96deff; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/'>www.thedailyshow.com</a></td></tr><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><embed style='display:block' src='http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:comedycentral.com:417578' width='512' height='288' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' wmode='window' allowFullscreen='true' flashvars='autoPlay=false' allowscriptaccess='always' allownetworking='all' bgcolor='#000000'></embed></td></tr><tr style='height:18px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><table style='margin:0px; text-align:center' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='100%' height='100%'><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/'>Daily Show Full Episodes</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.indecisionforever.com/'>Political Humor & Satire Blog</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.facebook.com/thedailyshow'>The Daily Show on Facebook</a></td></tr></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
unofan
Well-known member
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August
I have yet to meet anyone that's for it that can show any news story, court case, or other solid evidence that voter fraud actually occured in their jurisdiction. It's a scare tactic line of BS that I don't buy at all.
I have yet to meet anyone that's for it that can show any news story, court case, or other solid evidence that voter fraud actually occured in their jurisdiction. It's a scare tactic line of BS that I don't buy at all.
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August
How do you go about uncovering illegal voting? Isn't it better to try to stop it before it happens rather than pick up the pieces afterwards? The buried premise here is that any effort to curtail whatever amount of illegal voting that occurs just HAS to be racist. How convenient. Because no effort to "expand the franchise" is ever viewed as what it really is: putting a thumb on the scale.
And sending fraudulently elected people to Congress or the Senate or the State House or the White House may not seem like a big deal to you, but it does to me. Both the fact and the perception that our elections are on the up and up is very important to most Americans, even if it's not to you. Elections where just enough "votes" are "found" at the last minute to tip the outcome are far too frequent.
And you really ought to try to quote me accurately. The "horrific problem" I referred to was UNO fans' comparison of standing in line at the DMV for a couple of hours to get an ID to the Bataan Death March. I was being sarcastic.
Yes, of course, Republican controlled legislatures and Republican governors are trying to put an end to the stealing of elections in big cities. You would hardly expect Democrats, who benefit from watering down the requirements to register (after all, they've been trolling for votes in prisons) to get on board with that effort.
Don't fret about calling names, your side does an excellent job of demonizing anyone who even suggests that maybe voters should prove who they are before they cast a ballot. "Jim Crow," "poll tax," "racist," "voter suppression," and on and on. The typical litany of libs who can't win their argument with facts and resort instead to emotional name calling. And cryptic, conspiratorial references to those who are "pulling the puppets' strings" IMO doesn't strengthen the argument. It just shows libs will say anthing, do anything to avoid having an accurate vote count. One per registered voter. Cast by that voter. No less and certainly no more.
I think plenty of people "who think for themselves" see how desperate Democrats are that their stranglehold on certain precincts in certain cities and the resulting ability to generate huge numbers of votes may be in jeopardy. Your demagoguery doesn't change that.
How do you go about uncovering illegal voting? Isn't it better to try to stop it before it happens rather than pick up the pieces afterwards? The buried premise here is that any effort to curtail whatever amount of illegal voting that occurs just HAS to be racist. How convenient. Because no effort to "expand the franchise" is ever viewed as what it really is: putting a thumb on the scale.
And sending fraudulently elected people to Congress or the Senate or the State House or the White House may not seem like a big deal to you, but it does to me. Both the fact and the perception that our elections are on the up and up is very important to most Americans, even if it's not to you. Elections where just enough "votes" are "found" at the last minute to tip the outcome are far too frequent.
And you really ought to try to quote me accurately. The "horrific problem" I referred to was UNO fans' comparison of standing in line at the DMV for a couple of hours to get an ID to the Bataan Death March. I was being sarcastic.
Yes, of course, Republican controlled legislatures and Republican governors are trying to put an end to the stealing of elections in big cities. You would hardly expect Democrats, who benefit from watering down the requirements to register (after all, they've been trolling for votes in prisons) to get on board with that effort.
Don't fret about calling names, your side does an excellent job of demonizing anyone who even suggests that maybe voters should prove who they are before they cast a ballot. "Jim Crow," "poll tax," "racist," "voter suppression," and on and on. The typical litany of libs who can't win their argument with facts and resort instead to emotional name calling. And cryptic, conspiratorial references to those who are "pulling the puppets' strings" IMO doesn't strengthen the argument. It just shows libs will say anthing, do anything to avoid having an accurate vote count. One per registered voter. Cast by that voter. No less and certainly no more.
I think plenty of people "who think for themselves" see how desperate Democrats are that their stranglehold on certain precincts in certain cities and the resulting ability to generate huge numbers of votes may be in jeopardy. Your demagoguery doesn't change that.
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Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August
Your being willfully ignorant if you don't think Voter ID laws are not being used as a tool to suppress voting. On the other hand I don't have a lot of sympathy for those who can't be bothered to follow whatever election laws are put in place to make themselves eligible to vote. Bottom line is the Voter ID is just another example of Republicans choosing to expand government and regulations whenever possible.
Your being willfully ignorant if you don't think Voter ID laws are not being used as a tool to suppress voting. On the other hand I don't have a lot of sympathy for those who can't be bothered to follow whatever election laws are put in place to make themselves eligible to vote. Bottom line is the Voter ID is just another example of Republicans choosing to expand government and regulations whenever possible.
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August
Perhaps. But how do we know either way? Should we just take it on faith? Or should we put common sense safeguards in place to try to ensure that people who are voting are properly registered, live in the precinct in which they're attempting to vote and are who they say they are? No, certainly not. That would be racist!
Perhaps. But how do we know either way? Should we just take it on faith? Or should we put common sense safeguards in place to try to ensure that people who are voting are properly registered, live in the precinct in which they're attempting to vote and are who they say they are? No, certainly not. That would be racist!
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August
I have nonsense posing as irony in the balcony, Doctor.
I have nonsense posing as irony in the balcony, Doctor.
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August
And it comes so easily. I should be ashamed. But I'm not. Permit me a brief indulgence. On this matter of the allegation that voter ID laws are "voter suppression." Well, the idea certainly is to suppress ILLEGAL votes. I confess. But that term, as it is thrown around, is meant to imply a deliberate effort to suppress the votes of legal voters. Altogether now: "The poor, minorities and the young."
In 2000 in Florida, there were a lot of allegations from Ron Dellums and others about Jeb Bush's efforts to "suppress" the black vote. Well, whatever Jeb spent on that alleged effort, he should have gotten a refund. Because the black vote in Florida in 2000 was 60% HIGHER than it had been for Bill Clinton in '96. 60%! And it was that huge uptick in black voting that very nearly put Al Gore in the White House. But hey, why let pesky facts get in the way of cheap demagoguery?
And it comes so easily. I should be ashamed. But I'm not. Permit me a brief indulgence. On this matter of the allegation that voter ID laws are "voter suppression." Well, the idea certainly is to suppress ILLEGAL votes. I confess. But that term, as it is thrown around, is meant to imply a deliberate effort to suppress the votes of legal voters. Altogether now: "The poor, minorities and the young."
In 2000 in Florida, there were a lot of allegations from Ron Dellums and others about Jeb Bush's efforts to "suppress" the black vote. Well, whatever Jeb spent on that alleged effort, he should have gotten a refund. Because the black vote in Florida in 2000 was 60% HIGHER than it had been for Bill Clinton in '96. 60%! And it was that huge uptick in black voting that very nearly put Al Gore in the White House. But hey, why let pesky facts get in the way of cheap demagoguery?
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Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August
Interesting findings in a WaPo poll. Among other results: 74% of us support voter ID laws. Which I'm pretty sure is outside the margin of error. Strong support, incidentally, among the elderly and the poor.
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/08/14/why-do-voters-back-voter-id-laws-common-sense-fraud/
Here's the actual break out of the poll:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/page/...g/release_116.xml?uuid=E1kPqOQZEeGJ93biOpgtBg
Interesting findings in a WaPo poll. Among other results: 74% of us support voter ID laws. Which I'm pretty sure is outside the margin of error. Strong support, incidentally, among the elderly and the poor.
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/08/14/why-do-voters-back-voter-id-laws-common-sense-fraud/
Here's the actual break out of the poll:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/page/...g/release_116.xml?uuid=E1kPqOQZEeGJ93biOpgtBg
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Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August
Bilderbergers, Trilateralists, CFR.
Bilderbergers, Trilateralists, CFR.