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The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

Because a National Sales Tax screws the poor disproportionately.

Not to mention, why would the rich not just buy said item somewhere else where it will be cheaper since they wont have to pay the tax?

Which is exactly what happened when the Democrats gleefully passed their "luxury tax" on cars, boats and jewelry. Not only did the wealthy buy their boats off shore, the market for new boats dried up significantly and thousands of skilled artisans in the boat building industry lost their jobs. Take THAT 1%.
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

Which is exactly what happened when the Democrats gleefully passed their "luxury tax" on cars, boats and jewelry. Not only did the wealthy buy their boats off shore, the market for new boats dried up significantly and thousands of skilled artisans in the boat building industry lost their jobs. Take THAT 1%.

Leona Helmsley was right. And there's not a damm thing we can do about it.
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

Because a National Sales Tax screws the poor disproportionately.

Not to mention, why would the rich not just buy said item somewhere else where it will be cheaper since they wont have to pay the tax?
Ever hear of customs duties? If they buy it in Italy and bring it back to the USA, they have to pay an import duty and can't get around the NST.

Looks like 45 or 46 is getting new airplane: http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=56048148-8192-4583-a4ab-cceb5df298db
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

Jon Stewart's response. Which is my response.

<table style='font:11px arial; color:#333; background-color:#f5f5f5' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='512' height='340'><tbody><tr style='background-color:#e5e5e5' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com'>The Daily Show with Jon Stewart</a></td><td style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; text-align:right; font-weight:bold;'>Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c</td></tr><tr style='height:14px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;' colspan='2'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-16-2012/daily-show--democalypse-2012---cockblock-the-vote'>Daily Show: Democalypse 2012 - Cockblock the Vote</a></td></tr><tr style='height:14px; background-color:#353535' valign='middle'><td colspan='2' style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; width:512px; overflow:hidden; text-align:right'><a target='_blank' style='color:#96deff; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/'>www.thedailyshow.com</a></td></tr><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><embed style='display:block' src='http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:comedycentral.com:418032' width='512' height='288' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' wmode='window' allowFullscreen='true' flashvars='autoPlay=false' allowscriptaccess='always' allownetworking='all' bgcolor='#000000'></embed></td></tr><tr style='height:18px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><table style='margin:0px; text-align:center' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='100%' height='100%'><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/'>Daily Show Full Episodes</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.indecisionforever.com/'>Political Humor & Satire Blog</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.facebook.com/thedailyshow'>The Daily Show on Facebook</a></td></tr></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

Well, at least you admit John S. Liebowitz (the 15 million dollar man) does your thinking for you. You might try to branch out, do some reading, and form your own opinions. Weekly Reader might be a good place to start.
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

Not really, you want something from the same place, you pay the same amount. If you want to become rich by stealing from the rich, that's plain thievery and greed.

Right, I get what a National Sales tax is, I am just saying unless you exempt all the essentials the poor are gonna get bent over a table because the hike in price will basically take away any discretionary spending they have. The middle class and rich can bat an eye at it but the poor not so much. Mind you I am not giving you my opinion on the matter, just what the argument is. There is some poster who every few months starts talking about the VAT and a National Sales Tax and both sides (right and left) pretty much assassinate him over this stuff. Then when someone brings up exemptions for food and clothes it leads into the "Well once you start adding exemptions it just goes down the slippery slope and we are right back where we started".

And Old Pio explains what I am saying about buying elsewhere. If you think that the rich wont find a way to pay less for whatever it is they are buying if available overseas then I have oceanfront property in North Dakota to sell you.
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

National Sales Tax is terrible idea. It runs counter to progressive tax rate system we've had since 19th amendment was passed.



btw, I saw that Paul Ryan played ice hockey for Miami (OH) when he went to school there.....
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

haha! what a bunch of whiners, crying over what a horrible burden it would be to have to reach all the way back and drag out your wallet to show your driver's license. COME ON! don't be such babies. It's not quite the same as "putting you all back in chains", or whatever Biden is screaming about. :rolleyes:
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

Right, I get what a National Sales tax is, I am just saying unless you exempt all the essentials the poor are gonna get bent over a table because the hike in price will basically take away any discretionary spending they have. The middle class and rich can bat an eye at it but the poor not so much. Mind you I am not giving you my opinion on the matter, just what the argument is. There is some poster who every few months starts talking about the VAT and a National Sales Tax and both sides (right and left) pretty much assassinate him over this stuff. Then when someone brings up exemptions for food and clothes it leads into the "Well once you start adding exemptions it just goes down the slippery slope and we are right back where we started".

And Old Pio explains what I am saying about buying elsewhere. If you think that the rich wont find a way to pay less for whatever it is they are buying if available overseas then I have oceanfront property in North Dakota to sell you.

At least you're not one of those people that wants to price things based upon a percentage of income, which would lead to the greatest amount of class warfare profiling ever. Businesses would not be able to make money unless they catered to a specific group of people. Granted this person put it in terms of judicial sentencing, but then you'd start seeing rich people driving a Pinto in order to avoid being profiled, as it would no longer be fiscally sound for the cops to pull over a poor person.
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

Bob just dresses up like Sarah Palin. He's not actually her. ;)

Like Old Pio's neocon view of the world. Its sorta like watching that "Back to the 80's" show on VH1. I can almost hear the line "Murdoch.....I'm coming for YOU" from Rambo II playing in the background. Its even complete with the whole Clinton not serving thing, which is great because he never mentions Cheney's 4 deferrments, while also skipping over Kerry's heroic service which was slimed by sleazy conservatives. Then he wonders why military service doesn't command the respect it once did. Talk to your own party OP.

Okay, so Clinton AND Cheney were draft dodgers. But so far as I know only one of them lied to get a deferrmenrt. Anyone who didn't live through that period and wasn't vulnerable to the draft just can't understand what was going on then. Hundreds (thousands?) of Americans ran off to Canada. So many that in the J. Geils song "Hard Driving Man," Peter Wolf refers to "old 51."

You really ought to try reading my posts sometime. It will enlighten you and go a long way toward lifting the terrible burden of that ignorance you tote around like a hod carrier. Just a couple of days ago I said Kerry served honorably and even bravely in Vietnam. As did tens of thousands of others. He did, however, inflate his wartime CV just a tad. Such as claiming Nixon had sent him to Cambodia in December of '68, when Nixon didn't become president 'til January of '69.

One of the really durable myths to have emerged from that campaign was that the so-called "swift boating" of Kerry had any impact at all on the outcome. There's no evidence that it did. Kerry's problem was not his service, it was what he did when he returned that disqualified him, IMO, from ever being president.

He slandered and libeled tens of thousands of GIs who served just as honorably and just as bravely as he did, in order to advance his political career. He introduced false information (derived from the so-called Winter Soldier hearings) into the congressional record. He was given huge media coverage: anti-war, officer, hero, Yalie, etc. The fact that many of the pathetic losers who "testified" about so-called atrocities they'd seen in Vietnam had never served in our military, let alone in Vietnam, was another of Kerry's "mere details."

In order to impress the rubes, Kerry testified before the Senate out of uniform: wearing ribbons on a class C uniform. Later, in a gigantic anti-war photo-op he "gave back" his medals. It was later that we learned he was lying. He'd only given back the ribbons, not the medals. But, hey, he was onstage and he had a career to think about.

The guy made his service in Vietnam the centerpiece of his campaign. After twenty years or so in the Senate, we were supposed to look instead to what he did in his 20s as guidance for what kind of POTUS he'd make. You know, if we elected war heroes, then Audie Murphy and Sergeant York might have made good presidents. He was, as the saying goes, hoist on his own petard.

Military service always commands respect, except from people like you.
 
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Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

National Sales Tax is terrible idea. It runs counter to progressive tax rate system we've had since 19th amendment was passed.



btw, I saw that Paul Ryan played ice hockey for Miami (OH) when he went to school there.....

What does women's suffrage have to do with this?
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

I have nothing against the rich, I just think when times get bad they need to pay a bit more than usual and take it on the chin. If/when things turn around then we reward them for it with tax breaks or whatever. That is why I support going back to Clinton era tax levels for the foreseeable future.

Banks and bankers are a different story but the rich as a whole I have nothing against and certainly dont want to screw them over.
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

haha! what a bunch of whiners, crying over what a horrible burden it would be to have to reach all the way back and drag out your wallet to show your driver's license. COME ON! don't be such babies. It's not quite the same as "putting you all back in chains", or whatever Biden is screaming about. :rolleyes:

It's a very close call, but I think you're right. His Newtoneness and all the little Newtonenesses understand the polling data seem to show a lack of enthusiam among Democrats (especially the young and black Democrats) and greater enthusiasm among Republicans. The Ryan selection. So what's a guy whose signature "accomplishment" is rarely mentioned to do? Well, sliming the other guy is part of it. And, apparantly, dropping "g's" and using "y'all" and making slavery references is also part of it. BTW, that well known Republican Doug Wilder said Aunt Blabby's remarks were an insult to blacks.

The polling data also seem to show an unusually high number of voters have already made up their minds. Thus, this election is shaping up as a "turnout" election so anything that drives down the others guy's turnout or drives yours up is okay. The other guy is a killer, felon, tax cheat, etc. That's designed to drive down his turnout. While references (implicit or explicit) to slavery, lynching and Jim Crow are designed to drive up your turnout. It's all pretty obvious. And it might work.

Me? I'd still be willing to swap transcripts for tax returns.
 
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Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

I have nothing against the rich, I just think when times get bad they need to pay a bit more than usual and take it on the chin. If/when things turn around then we reward them for it with tax breaks or whatever. That is why I support going back to Clinton era tax levels for the foreseeable future.

Banks and bankers are a different story but the rich as a whole I have nothing against and certainly dont want to screw them over.

Part of it will actually have the opposite effect. One misconception about the 2003 tax cuts, especially with capital gains and dividends, is that it was a cut across the board. It's not. In fact, if you day trade, you didn't see any change in your taxation whatsoever, aside from your final bracket. What is rewarded is keeping your money with these companies for long periods of time so they can invest with it. If you remove that, you will see extraordinarily heavy volume trading, even to the point where these companies may not even be able to get long-term investors at all because it isn't feasible.

As for the final brackets, I still do believe we're beyond the apex of the Laffer parabola, so I don't think it's a good idea to raise bracket rates, unless we want to address the 48% of Americans that don't even pay any income taxes at all, especially if you want to talk about Americans paying their fair share.
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

Part of it will actually have the opposite effect. One misconception about the 2003 tax cuts, especially with capital gains and dividends, is that it was a cut across the board. It's not. In fact, if you day trade, you didn't see any change in your taxation whatsoever, aside from your final bracket. What is rewarded is keeping your money with these companies for long periods of time so they can invest with it. If you remove that, you will see extraordinarily heavy volume trading, even to the point where these companies may not even be able to get long-term investors at all because it isn't feasible.

As for the final brackets, I still do believe we're beyond the apex of the Laffer parabola, so I don't think it's a good idea to raise bracket rates, unless we want to address the 48% of Americans that don't even pay any income taxes at all, especially if you want to talk about Americans paying their fair share.

:rolleyes:
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

I have nothing against the rich, I just think when times get bad they need to pay a bit more than usual and take it on the chin. If/when things turn around then we reward them for it with tax breaks or whatever. That is why I support going back to Clinton era tax levels for the foreseeable future.

Banks and bankers are a different story but the rich as a whole I have nothing against and certainly dont want to screw them over.

I think the problem is not the tax rate but the image that he and Ryan have no empathy or sympathy who are not as fortunate as them. They don't have to live from paycheck to paycheck, deal with healthcare costs, unemployment, large debts for housing, tuition, etc. because they're both don't have that problem. I don't know if they can actually talk about issues when they're on the defensive and having always to explain tax returns, accepting stimulus when denying it, and on and on. People can see through their rhetoric and half truths, distortions, etc. Right now they have a PR problem and it's not going away unless they can talk and explain their way out of this problem. It's not small minded to people and the GOP is struggling to regain control of this campaign whether you want to believe it or not.
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

I think the problem is not the tax rate but the image that he and Ryan have no empathy or sympathy who are not as fortunate as them. They don't have to live from paycheck to paycheck, deal with healthcare costs, unemployment, large debts for housing, tuition, etc. because they're both don't have that problem. I don't know if they can actually talk about issues when they're on the defensive and having always to explain tax returns, accepting stimulus when denying it, and on and on. People can see through their rhetoric and half truths, distortions, etc. Right now they have a PR problem and it's not going away unless they can talk and explain their way out of this problem. It's not small minded to people and the GOP is struggling to regain control of this campaign whether you want to believe it or not.
Romney and Ryan live paycheck to paycheck as much as Obama and Biden do. None of them live a life that equates at all closely to those in America that struggle to make ends meet. But, one pair have the media spinmeisters behind them, which makes a big difference in what perceptions are of the candidates.
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

Romney and Ryan live paycheck to paycheck as much as Obama and Biden do. None of them live a life that equates at all closely to those in America that struggle to make ends meet. But, one pair have the media spinmeisters behind them, which makes a big difference in what perceptions are of the candidates.

I find that hard to believe when he has an estimated 200 to 250 million in his name. Ryan comes from wealth inherited from the family business. None of us has that to fall on if we lose our jobs, houses, and measly savings. Their yearly income is nowhere near what the average joe makes. Obama and Biden are incumbents, they don't to have to explain or have this problem. Ryan makes a good salary in the house of representatives with perks and more than adequate free healthcare that the politicians give themselves.
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

Romney and Ryan live paycheck to paycheck as much as Obama and Biden do. None of them live a life that equates at all closely to those in America that struggle to make ends meet. But, one pair have the media spinmeisters behind them, which makes a big difference in what perceptions are of the candidates.

:rolleyes:

Yes, its the spinmeisters. That's why Ryan and Romney have no logical answers to the simple questions they have been asked.
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

I find that hard to believe when he has an estimated 200 to 250 million in his name. Ryan comes from wealth inherited from the family business. None of us has that to fall on if we lose our jobs, houses, and measly savings. Their yearly income is nowhere near what the average joe makes. Obama and Biden are incumbents, they don't to have to explain or have this problem. Ryan makes a good salary in the house of representatives with perks and more than adequate free healthcare that the politicians give themselves.
Sure Obama and Biden have to, or should have to if the media did their jobs, answer the question of whether they can related to the common folk, which is the issue you raised. And if people want to talk about the wealth of Ryan or Romney, they should talk about Obama and Biden, who certainly also have much more means than the common folk. To pretend otherwise is simply partisan sniping.
 
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