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The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

ScoobyDoo said:
Romney and now Ryan pay a lower effective rate than me..
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Adjust for their charitable contributions compared to yours (is the point to pay tax or to help others in need, whether it be through tax or through sharing in other venues?); I'll bet it's a push.

Based on Romney's disclosed returns, if you are single using standard deduction, your income has to exceed $108,000 which puts you in the top 10%.

If you are married using standard deduction, your joint income has to exceed $196,000 to equalize to Romney.


Are you saying the top earners have to contribute more as long as it's not you personally?
 
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Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

Dear God... This tax return is is getting annoying.

WE ALL KNOW HE DIDN'T PAY A HIGH PERCENTAGE. STOP B*TCHING ABOUT IT AND REST OF YOU STOP PRETENDING LIKE HE DIDN'T

No wonder we can't have anything nice in this country. We're caught up in *****ing about the tax returns and transcripts from our presidential candidates and hardly focusing on the substantive issues. Guess what? Obama is smarter than you and Romney is richer than you. Get over it.
 
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Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

FreshFish said:
Adjust for their charitable contributions compared to yours (is the point to pay tax or to help others in need?)
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I have no doubt Romney tithes his 10% to the Mormon Church. I'm not so sure I'd go so far as to call that someone in need, however. The Mormon Church is second only to the Vatican in terms of wealth among religious institutions.
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

unofan said:
I have no doubt Romney tithes his 10% to the Mormon Church. I'm not so sure I'd go so far as to call that someone in need, however. The Mormon Church is second only to the Vatican in terms of wealth among religious institutions.
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And?
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

The 0.5% and I am disgusted. Though I guess pre internet they had the society pages. The future leaders of tomorrow. Most, unfortunately, will be in the corporate elite floors with no sense of ethics or responsibility.

http://richkidsofinstagram.tumblr.com/
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

dxmnkd316 said:
Rich kids having fun... Such a terrible thing.
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Unless you're a Kennedy relative and you define "fun" as raping a woman underneath the window of the room in which your mother is sleeping. THAT's fun. And your elderly US Senator uncle is parading around the house with his pants around his ankles, asking the ladies if they "want to see it." That's ALSO fun.
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

Old Pio said:
Unless you're a Kennedy relative and you define "fun" as raping a woman underneath the window of the room in which your mother is sleeping. THAT's fun.
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That's a bit of a cheap shot. :)

What do we expect rich kids to do? Play kick the can? No, these are people of means and if they want to go out and buy gold iPhones, ride on yachts, and drink copious amounts of expensive champagne, they should be able to without the rest of us looking "down" our noses at them.

Maybe it's jealousy, maybe it's spite, I don't care and neither should anyone else. You were dealt your hand at birth, you aren't a billionaire. GET OVER IT.
 
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Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

dxmnkd316 said:
That's a bit of a cheap shot but anyways. What do we expect rich kids to do? Play kick the can? No, these are people of means and if they want to go out and buy gold iPhones, ride on yachts, and drink copious amounts of expensive champagne, they should be able to without the rest of us looking "down" our noses at them.

Maybe it's jealousy, maybe it's spite, I don't care and neither should anyone else. You were dealt your hand at birth, you aren't a billionaire. GET OVER IT.
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It's the Kennedys who are a cheap shot. Writ large. Who else but a Kennedy could have an automobile accident where his passenger died, leave the scene of that accident, report it 8 to 10 hours later (thus at a minimum dispensing with that pesky blood alcohol test) and get a slap on the wrist?

Buggering your minor baby sitter? Also a cheap shot.

Driving around the capital drunk, getting into accidents and taking drugs? Also a cheap shot.

Driving your ex-wife to suicide? Another cheap shot.
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

Old Pio said:
It's the Kennedys who are a cheap shot. Writ large. Who else but a Kennedy could have an automobile accident where his passenger died, leave the scene of that accident, report it 8 to 10 hours later (thus at a minimum dispensing with that pesky blood alcohol test) and get a slap on the wrist?

Buggering your minor baby sitter? Also a cheap shot.

Driving around the capital drunk, getting into accidents and taking drugs? Also a cheap shot.

Driving your ex-wife to suicide? Another cheap shot.
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I take your point. Just never want to pass up an opportunity to point out what lying, cheating, corrupt, drunken scumbags America's "first family" are. Not like that bastiche Romney, who gives millions to his church, and means it.
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

Old Pio said:
It's the Kennedys who are a cheap shot. Writ large. Who else but a Kennedy could have an automobile accident where his passenger died, leave the scene of that accident, report it 8 to 10 hours later (thus at a minimum dispensing with that pesky blood alcohol test) and get a slap on the wrist?

Buggering your minor baby sitter? Also a cheap shot.

Driving around the capital drunk, getting into accidents and taking drugs? Also a cheap shot.

Driving your ex-wife to suicide? Another cheap shot.
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Jeez, how could I have forgotten? Boning an East German spy. Knocking boots with a Chicago mob boss' girl friend.
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

Bob Gray said:
Romney and Ryan live paycheck to paycheck as much as Obama and Biden do. None of them live a life that equates at all closely to those in America that struggle to make ends meet. But, one pair have the media spinmeisters behind them, which makes a big difference in what perceptions are of the candidates.
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In part there's a reason for that (and as a result, its not strictly spin).

Obama had a middle income upbringing with his true father having died early. Romney we'll just say had a 'very comfotable' nicer upbringing. Obama took talent to get him to Harvard....which he put aside to do community sevice work focusing on training programs for the poor. If he needed them, Romney had the connections and took that to the lucrative corporate fast track with BCG and Bain. Not saying that there's anything wrong with Romney...as there is a place for both.

But don't be surprised if they are viewed differently.
 
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Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

5mn_Major said:
In part there's a reason for that (and as a result, its strictly spin).

Obama had a middle income upbringing with his true father having died early. Romney we'll just say had a 'very comfotable' nicer upbringing. Obama took talent to get him to Harvard....which he put aside to do community sevice work focusing on training programs for the poor. I he needed them, Romney had the connections and took that to the lucrative corporate fast track with BCG and Bain. Not saying that there's anything wrong with Romney...as there is a place for both.

But don't be surprised if they are viewed differently.
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There must be some sort of prize for working the most code words for "jealousy" and "envy" into one post. We should probably research it. Maybe we could ask a Kennedy.
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

FreshFish said:
"Wealth and poverty are catalysts for bringing the rich and the poor together in community, and community is the hallmark of the church's mission on Earth. Government is not community. Government is one of community's tools, a coercive one we use when it is necessary to force people to behave in ways they would not otherwise behave voluntarily.

That word — "voluntarily" — is key... Charity can only be charity when it is voluntary. Coerced acts, no matter how beneficial or well-intentioned, cannot be moral. If we force people to give to the poor, we have stripped away the moral component, reducing charity to mere income redistribution. And if one really is as good as the other, the Soviets demonstrated long ago that it can be done far more efficiently without the trappings of church and religion.

All people have the moral obligation to care for those who are less fortunate. But replacing morality with legality is the first step in replacing church, religion and conscience with government, politics and majority vote. Coercing people to feed the poor simply substitutes moral poverty for material poverty.[emphasis added]"



To me, this is the crux of difference between the old-fashioned liberal and today's progressives. The old-fashioned liberal used moral suasion and a sense of shared values to induce people to act with the common social good in mind; the "thousand points of light" trope for those who aren't very good at "the vision thing." Notice how many of our foundations were endowed by rich people to help the rest of society.
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The first sentence is awesome. Then it goes into the usual 'we rich are such victims' whining.

The status quo is pretty close to what it should be. What many fail to see is that the rich actually use waay more government services than anyone else and esp the poor. Many poor live in one bedroom apartments, without a car, and often work as a line cook or some such. The rich due to big salaries have larger stakes in larger companies (who may not being paying taxes to cover the govt services they use). The rich often have multiple residences, cars, boats and fly between them. Someone with toys all over uses far more govt resources than someone who lives most of their life in the confines of a one bedroom apartment. Are taxes paid on a dollar for dollar basis? I doubt it. But its not nearly of the magnitude that the complaining would have you believe. Likewise many other services that the poor get blamed for such as training and education...are services that are first and foremost in the US' best interest and the long term health of the economy inparticular.

So Charity from rich? Awesome. Good works from church toward those less fortunate? Awesome. But taxation status quo is pretty close...and any notion that 'the government is robbing the rich blind' is a total snow. So in my opinion, there is undue whining by a small number of rich ideologues...which for some reason is amplified by a large number of poor ideologues due to the fact they are getting sold a line of bs about how government services are used.

Just opinion. :)
 
Re: The 2012 Presidential Election Part I - The guns of August

Old Pio said:
There must be some sort of prize for working the most code words for "jealousy" and "envy" into one post. We should probably research it. Maybe we could ask a Kennedy.
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You should have waited to respond until you saw the direction of my next post. ;)
 
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