The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

And for pity's sake can the GOP please propose something that might look like a compromise? Not enamored with the Dems but I am less enamored with the GOP having it's main talking point be "NO~!" or so extreme that the general public won't like it.

Compromise is a dirty word.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Compromise is a dirty word.

If Obama would just do what Mitch McConnell and Eric Cantor (Boehner's a puppet) tell him to do he'd be fine.

 

[Foxton]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Compromise is a dirty word.

Liar, they have compromised, after all they are talking about things. See they compromised, if they weren't great comprisers they wouldn't talk about it at all. We'll consider doing something if you consider doing everything that we want.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

If Obama took a Republican plan and wrote his name on it, Republicans would reject it.

IF? Where have you been half the crap he tries to pass is just old Republican Bills they now reject. Hell much of the new Jobs plan is just recycled ideas from the Bushes and we all know his "Health Care Reform" was actually written by Bob Dole.. If he had brain one in how to play politics at this point he could make an hour long special about it and show the hypocracy of the current GOP members. I mean the Daily Show does it almost every day and they barely have to try. Since he and his staff are just whiny jellyfish though he runs away from it.

I mean at this point even Olbermann is calling him out...

 

[Handyman]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

This is what's wrong with this country. The relevance to my posting wasn't that it was "someone", as you flippantly described it. The relevance was "who" that someone was.

Course your plan is the same as all the Republicans. Slash government spending and 0% taxes for job creators. It's an amazing world where someone asks rich people to pay the same percentage as poor people and the poor people are the ones playing the class warfare card. Gotta love it. No different then when we have a huge DEMAND problem in the economy and the solution is SUPPLY side.

Scooby, you are talking about a group of people that truly believe that teachers who make 50k a year are overpaid and destroying the economy and that white collar businessmen who make 250k a year are not making that much and need tax breaks because that is hardly a living wage. The propaganda has become the truth to these guys there is no rationalization. If there was rational members left in the GOP why werent they out front the night of the debate denouncing the idiots who yelled "Let Him Die" about a person in a coma without insurance? The reason, they dont exist anymore. They have been bullied to the point that they no longer just fear what will happen if they talk against the platform (be branded a Dem "by accident" on Fox, have Rush denounce them to his mouthbreathers, be called a Socialist and a traitor by Breitbart and his cronies) they have bowed under and just take it.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Why Republican politics works.

In a word: innumeracy.

In song:

"Don't forget that most men with nothing would rather protect the possibility of becoming rich than face the reality of being poor." -- John Dickinson, 1776.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

This is what's wrong with this country. The relevance to my posting wasn't that it was "someone", as you flippantly described it. The relevance was "who" that someone was.

Course your plan is the same as all the Republicans. Slash government spending and 0% taxes for job creators. It's an amazing world where someone asks rich people to pay the same percentage as poor people and the poor people are the ones playing the class warfare card. Gotta love it. No different then when we have a huge DEMAND problem in the economy and the solution is SUPPLY side.

There's plenty of people who are criticizing the jobs bill also. It's nonsense for you to pick out someone, even someone very credible, throw their endorsement out there, and ignore all the criticism. But, as usual, you're trying to carry Obama's water for him. As I've said before, I believe we need both significant spending cuts and some tax increases. But, your knee-jerk reaction to defend Obama as usual shows me you're not serious about the subject.

 

[leswp1]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

There's plenty of people who are criticizing the jobs bill also. It's nonsense for you to pick out someone, even someone very credible, throw their endorsement out there, and ignore all the criticism. But, as usual, you're trying to carry Obama's water for him. As I've said before, I believe we need both significant spending cuts and some tax increases. But, your knee-jerk reaction to defend Obama as usual shows me you're not serious about the subject.

Perhaps I misread but I got the same knee jerk impression from you both. It would be helpful if people would acknowledge the parts that would appeal rather than just dismissing everything or accepting everything. It isn't very productive to keep listing what won't work. More productive to take the pieces that would be acceptable and build on them.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

There's plenty of people who are criticizing the jobs bill also. It's nonsense for you to pick out someone, even someone very credible, throw their endorsement out there, and ignore all the criticism. But, as usual, you're trying to carry Obama's water for him. As I've said before, I believe we need both significant spending cuts and some tax increases. But, your knee-jerk reaction to defend Obama as usual shows me you're not serious about the subject.

Knee jerk reaction? Really? No, not really. I'm not knee jerking anything. And I'm not defending Obama either. What I am defending is that we have a DEMAND problem and the REPUBLICANS are offering their same old same old supply side solution. Obama has been an idiot cause he's listened to them OVER AND OVER and that's why the economy is still crap.

But, yeah Bob. I'm not serious about the subject.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

There's plenty of people who are criticizing the jobs bill also. It's nonsense for you to pick out someone, even someone very credible, throw their endorsement out there, and ignore all the criticism. But, as usual, you're trying to carry Obama's water for him. As I've said before, I believe we need both significant spending cuts and some tax increases. But, your knee-jerk reaction to defend Obama as usual shows me you're not serious about the subject.

Scooby is carrying water for Obama? Better check it for poison....

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Perhaps I misread but I got the same knee jerk impression from you both. It would be helpful if people would acknowledge the parts that would appeal rather than just dismissing everything or accepting everything. It isn't very productive to keep listing what won't work. More productive to take the pieces that would be acceptable and build on them.

That's a nice sentiment. It's also the way the country used to do politics. Not anymore. It's now 'my way or the highway'

"What's mine is mine and what's yours is negotiable."

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Knee jerk reaction? Really? No, not really. I'm not knee jerking anything. And I'm not defending Obama either. What I am defending is that we have a DEMAND problem and the REPUBLICANS are offering their same old same old supply side solution. Obama has been an idiot cause he's listened to them OVER AND OVER and that's why the economy is still crap.

But, yeah Bob. I'm not serious about the subject.

No, you aren't. The economy is in trouble because Obama listens to Republicans? That's bizarre from so many angles, I don't know where to start.

Just finished seeing a brief list of Obama's "cuts". Includes things like saving $1.1 trillion from Iraq and Afghanistan and $430 billion in interest savings. This is worse than smoke and mirrors.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Perhaps I misread but I got the same knee jerk impression from you both. It would be helpful if people would acknowledge the parts that would appeal rather than just dismissing everything or accepting everything. It isn't very productive to keep listing what won't work. More productive to take the pieces that would be acceptable and build on them.

Yes, my knee-jerk reaction is to not buy into an argument Scooby throws out there simply because he finds one business person who endorses it. I read and analyze what's being proposed and form my opinion based on the information in front of me. The fact that businessman endorses Obama's jobs plan is interesting, but only one of many bits of information on the subject.

 

[unofan]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I read and analyze what's being proposed and form my opinion based on the information in front of me. The fact that businessman endorses Obama's jobs plan is interesting, but only one of many bits of information on the subject.

You say that, Bob, but I'm finding it harder and harder to believe since your opinions over the last few months have moved closer and closer to lockstep with the Fox News brigade.

I would've believed you even 6 months ago, but your latest postings have taken on an Old Pio-lite temperment.

Quid pro quo. I'm pro-death penalty, pro free trade, and pro second amendment, to name just a few of the numerous traditionally right-wing positions I hold despite your protestations that I'm a lefty. Could you please name one or two positions of yours that are not also present day GOP talking points? Bonus points if any of them are budgetary in nature.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Yes, my knee-jerk reaction is to not buy into an argument Scooby throws out there simply because he finds one business person who endorses it. I read and analyze what's being proposed and form my opinion based on the information in front of me. The fact that businessman endorses Obama's jobs plan is interesting, but only one of many bits of information on the subject.

That we have a demand side economic problem and the GOP's only proposals have been supply side?

I'm anti-death penalty on economic grounds.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

You say that, Bob, but I'm finding it harder and harder to believe since your opinions over the last few months have moved closer and closer to lockstep with the Fox News brigade.

I would've believed you even 6 months ago, but your latest postings have taken on an Old Pio-lite temperment.

Quid pro quo. I'm pro-death penalty, pro free trade, and pro second amendment, to name just a few of the numerous traditionally right-wing positions I hold despite your protestations that I'm a lefty. Could you please name one or two positions of yours that are not also present day GOP talking points? Bonus points if any of them are budgetary in nature.

Was just thinking about the same way there are reputable people calling the jobs bill bad...there were a corresponding number who were calling Obama a socialist before he entered the white house.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

You say that, Bob, but I'm finding it harder and harder to believe since your opinions over the last few months have moved closer and closer to lockstep with the Fox News brigade.

I would've believed you even 6 months ago, but your latest postings have taken on an Old Pio-lite temperment.

Quid pro quo. I'm pro-death penalty, pro free trade, and pro second amendment, to name just a few of the numerous traditionally right-wing positions I hold despite your protestations that I'm a lefty. Could you please name one or two positions of yours that are not also present day GOP talking points? Bonus points if any of them are budgetary in nature.

I'm ok with taxes being part of the solution to the budget deficit, as I've noted in recent posts.
I'm against the death penalty.
I think some Republicans are too cozy with business interests and such coziness is reflected in their actions in Congress at times.
I'm generally not big with a lot of foreign entanglements.
I'm ok with cutting military spending. In fact, I think it would be unreasonable to not have military spending be part of a grand solution to the federal budget problem.

I could keep going, but that's way more than you even asked for.

I take you for a leftie because you take issue with conservative posters on issues, but don't go after liberals who push liberal views of things. I know you say differently, but your posting in sum reflects a liberal view of things.

 

[leswp1]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Was just thinking about the same way there are reputable people calling the jobs bill bad...there were a corresponding number who were calling Obama a socialist before he entered the white house.

Someone should create a program that could filter all the guff that is name calling and just let thru stuff that is thoughtful consideration of the issue. I imagine there would be very little to look at.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Scooby, you are talking about a group of people that truly believe that teachers who make 50k a year are overpaid and destroying the economy and that white collar businessmen who make 250k a year are not making that much and need tax breaks because that is hardly a living wage.

Accounting for their benefits, total teacher compensation averages out to nearly 100k per year. While we are in love with the idea of quoting our compensation to friends simply in terms of our salaries/hourly wages, the simple fact of the matter is most of us get some sort of benefits from our employers, and that dramatically increases our total pay. As far as education spending is concerned, there are other ways to cap it / control it that go beyond teacher pay, but I suspect those methods aren't discussed because it's easier (for both sides) to fixate on teachers. The GOP does it because most teachers are unionized and strongly support the Democrats (just as other government workers tend to do). The Democrats do it because it humanizes the issue and allows them to claim your kids' education will dramatically suffer if we dare cut education spending.

Regarding your second point about the job creators, that too is screwed up. The GOP would never argue something in terms of a "living wage" as that is common left-wing parlance (just as "job creator" is right-wing). Their argument - such as it is - focuses on allowing the wealthy to keep more of their money in order to free that money up to be invested / spent. In a weird sort of way, it's something like the education debate in reverse, where they argue that if we dare mess with the upper income tax cuts/incentives, we'll destroy the economy because businesses will instantly lay people off and stop spending.

The long and short of it is both sides will apply nutty logic on any issue that suits them and scares people into voting whatever way is necessary to protect the entrenched interests.

 

[geezer]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

I'm anti-death penalty on economic grounds.

I'm anti-death penalty because I'm pro-life. But does this argument work? I always thought it would be cheaper to off the guy than to feed and house him for 60 years, not to mention paying his guards, dentists, doctors, teachers, etc.