The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

[walrus]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

Those people don't want Erica's even dumber brother, Forest, to be the world's best electrician

Dumb and the worlds best Electrician probably isn't going to work out very well
Way back when lots of folks went into trades, not sure why its such a horrible thing now.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

I agree with all your points for the most part. I just think we need to proceed carefully if we're going to emulate the European education model. Education already has a large "self-fulfilling prophesy" effect and I can't help thinking that if we set it up to produce a certain result, rather than let it float more freely, we are hamstringing out future to our present, limited worldview.

America is the land of opportunity...not the land of limited opportunity. A surprisingly large amount of history's greatest minds were not great students in high school. Good in theory...but don't know that its what we want in practice.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

A public education campaign couldn't hurt. Rather than these idiotic PSAs that tell people to "talk to their kids" or other such BS

We all know why those PSAs are there.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

Dumb and the worlds best Electrician probably isn't going to work out very well

I did it myself. My whole point was he's not "dumb," he'd be a crack electrician who could not give a rat's ass about Of Mice and Men. But I'm an idiot and I fell into the whole trap.

Please interpret what I meant was Erica and Forest being as crappy a fit for the Ivy Prep course as I would be for metal shop. But the guy who finishes #1 in either should have the same pride and prospects. ( Edit: I've gone back and edited my statement to be more what I had in mind.)

 

[Bakunin]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

America is the land of opportunity...not the land of limited opportunity. A surprisingly large amount of history's greatest minds were not great students in high school. Good in theory...but don't know that its what we want in practice.

What exactly is stopping an electrician or plumber from deciding later on to go back to school for a degree and to pursue another career?

All I am saying is the current system has produced a significant number of debt-ridden young adults who have few (if any) job prospects in their chosen fields and who may have student loan debt hanging over them their entire working lives. Clearly something is wrong with our current approach.

 

[walrus]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

What exactly is stopping an electrician or plumber from deciding later on to go back to school for a degree and to pursue another career? .

Why can't he live the American dream as either one?

 

[Bakunin]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

Why can't he live the American dream as either one?

...which is the point - a good living can be had via either profession. 5mn_major is acting as though people tracked into these professions have no other options later on should they want to pursue them, though - which is wrong on its face.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

What exactly is stopping an electrician or plumber from deciding later on to go back to school for a degree and to pursue another career?

All I am saying is the current system has produced a significant number of debt-ridden young adults who have few (if any) job prospects in their chosen fields and who may have student loan debt hanging over them their entire working lives. Clearly something is wrong with our current approach.

Like these guys.

Poor bastiges.

Pouring more $$$ into higher education is not the answer. We already have plenty of people who go to college and grad school. Increasing the money available will not provide more opportunities, it will simply increase the cost of the existing supply - the first law of unnecessary subsidies. Professors would become richer, facilities would become nicer, but I don't think we'd be a much more educated society than we are today.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

All I am saying is the current system has produced a significant number of debt-ridden young adults who have few (if any) job prospects in their chosen fields and who may have student loan debt hanging over them their entire working lives. Clearly something is wrong with our current approach.

There is something wrong here with the jobs situation...and I'm not sure what the solution is.

I have always been a strong advocate of free trade and comparative advantage...ie each economy is best producing their specialty. In the case of the US, its technology, business innovation and content. Yet for the first time, I'm beginning to believe there is something wrong with this approach in the US.

The theory goes that each job lost in basic manufacturing, mining, etc is replaced with a job in another sector...in the US case, technology or innovation. The problem as I'm beginning to believe it...is that say a 100 manufacturing jobs that say have a value of a 10 million dollars. It appears those jobs are not being replaced by 100 cool technology jobs...but rather some bright entreprenuer who makes 10 million in some creative business innovation scheme.

So the theory is right...the outcome is not as expected. How does that get fixed? I have no idea.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

Like these guys.

Poor bastiges.

The great thing about being a lawyer is later you can write the law that lets you repudiate your debt.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

...which is the point - a good living can be had via either profession. 5mn_major is acting as though people tracked into these professions have no other options later on should they want to pursue them, though - which is wrong on its face.

I'm just saying that once someone who is too talented for that plumber position gets a few years in...has a family and mortgage...they may not have the will or opportunity to make that change.

Your general problem identification is spot on...I'm just don't know if the value add outweighs the costs like the comment I just made. Don't have anywhere near the info on that.

 

[unofan]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

The great thing about being a lawyer is later you can write the law that lets you repudiate your debt.

Yeah, I'm slightly concerned because my wife is counting on the feds maintaining the "go to income based repayment, do public service for 10 years, and whatever's left on your student loans is wiped out" program. She's a public defender, but I'm somewhat skeptical that the Feds will actually follow through when the bill comes due in 10 years.

Thankfully my student loan burden isn't nearly as bad, and I plan on paying it off early if possible.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

I'm just saying that once someone who is too talented for that plumber position gets a few years in...has a family and mortgage...they may not have the will or opportunity to make that change.

There's no perfect solution in an imperfect world. Lack of intellectual fulfillment for a small number is worth it in my view when considering the benefits of gainful employment for many thousands of people. My proposed solution would almost certainly better utilize our human capital than the current system does. Yes, it might come at the expense of a few brighter individuals who got tracked into the wrong profession. Then again, I'm willing to wager that this already happens in the current system, only instead of being tracked into the wrong profession, these people simply don't find a profession at all.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

Yeah, I'm slightly concerned because my wife is counting on the feds maintaining the "go to income based repayment, do public service for 10 years, and whatever's left on your student loans is wiped out" program. She's a public defender, but I'm somewhat skeptical that the Feds will actually follow through when the bill comes due in 10 years.

My wife is on track for this. If she can hold on for 4 more years we take $70k debt off our books. I would like to personally thank the taxpayers of the United States for this.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

My wife is on track for this. If she can hold on for 4 more years we take $70k debt off our books. I would like to personally thank the taxpayers of the United States for this.

So collectively, the republican districts are generally screwing the taxpayers, while individually the democrats are doing likewise?

**** you all.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

So collectively, the republican districts are generally screwing the taxpayers, while individually the democrats are doing likewise?

**** you all.

We count double. We live in a Republican district.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

Pliumbers and Electricians can make good money, better than alot of College Grads and good techs contined to work through this downturn

I often wish I had gone this route.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

Good.

Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-Fla.), chairwoman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, told The Hill that oversight would be a key function of the panel, particularly funding to the U.N. Human Rights Council (HRC) that is "a waste of taxpayer dollars."
"I'd like to make sure that we once and for all kill all U.S. funding for that beast," she said last month. "Because I don't think that it advances U.S. interests, I don't think that that's a pro-democracy group, it's a rogues' gallery, pariah states, they belong there because they don't want to be sanctioned."

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

Good.

Sounds like a horrible person for the house foreign affairs committee. Look for her to both overreach her role and aid in the suboptimization of foriegn policy. I'll agree with this as soon as we put a lifelong pacifist in charge of the dept of defense.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

Sounds like a horrible person for the house foreign affairs committee. Look for her to both overreach her role and aid in the suboptimization of foriegn policy. I'll agree with this as soon as we put a lifelong pacifist in charge of the dept of defense.

Parody died the day John Bolton became US Ambassador to the United Nations. These guys have a history of putting very silly people in charge of the things they most want to destroy. What can you expect from a group of politicians who spend all their time decrying politicians? Every Republican elected official is, to some degree, a self-hating Log Cabin Republican.

(Or a hypocrite only in it to make a buck...)