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Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

Ding ding ding... Go through the appropriate measures and you won't have any problems...

And you think the use of these new devices will be limited? As I understand it, the plan is that their use will become pretty universal. Again, if you get past the issue of the nude photos, and these drooling morons sharing them with one another, there's the little matter of concealing explosives in body cavities, which they can't pick up. Should TSA hire five thousand proctologists? BTW, that method was used in an effort to kill a high ranking Saudi. The bomb killed the guy carrying it (of course) but didn't kill the target. And it would seem to be possible for someone to mule a bomb on a plane in his arse, then head to the men's room to retrieve it, so as to get maximum efficiency when he set it off.
 
Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

I'd fly naked if it guaranteed my plane wouldn't blow up. :rolleyes:
 
Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

On the bomb up the butt guy, how do you stop someone like that though? I'm all for profiling, but unless you do a rectal exam, that's not getting caught.
 
Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

It's pretty naive to say "well since they haven't caught anyone yet, we don't need them". Yet that seems to be the basis of your argument. You don't offer much in the way of solutions. Which is pretty standard for these kind of rants.

This will ALWAYS be the case, no matter what systems are in place for security. There is no fail safe plan, and there never will be.

I'll say it again, but this time I will speak very slowly okay? We're spending hundreds of millions of dollars on "security" which, in fact, doesn't make us more "secure." The Israelis seem to have developed a system which offers more "security," and I'm suggesting we get past our knee jerk reactions about "profiling" and see if there's anything we can learn from how they do it. As to expense, we've already hired 65-thousand morons in the TSA, so we're already spending a lot of money and getting practically nothing for it.

I'm not saying we don't need security, I'm saying we need different security. BTW, Richard Reed got his shoe bomb on a plane, it just failed to work. Same thing with the panty bomber, he got it on the plane, it just failed to work.
 
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Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

On the bomb up the butt guy, how do you stop someone like that though? I'm all for profiling, but unless you do a rectal exam, that's not getting caught.

Well, the kind of questioning the Israelis do goes far beyond: "did you pack your own bag" and "have you left your bag unattended." I've always wanted to answer that first question,"no, I didn't pack my bag, I called Abdul's bag packing service and he sent some guys over to pack my bag, after they told me to leave the room." But I'd be arrested.

The Israelis use highly trained interrogators who throw lots of questions, seemingly with no purpose, very quickly. And you better have the right answers, don't even think about lying to them. They're also looking at body language, eye movement and other indicators. These are very highly trained, professionals, not drop outs from some "Rent a cop" school.

Understand, the Israelis used technology too. And if butt bombs became more prevalent, I'm sure they'd have proctologists in the airport. They just wouldn't subjecrt grandmothers to the search. They make the determination that you present a risk first.
 
Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

I'll say it again, but this time I will speak very slowly okay? We're spending hundreds of millions of dollars on "security" which, in fact, doesn't make us more "secure." The Israelis seem to have developed a system which offers more "security," and I'm suggesting we get past our knee jerk reactions about "profiling" and see if there's anything we can learn from how they do it. As to expense, we've already hired 65-thousand morons in the TSA, so we're already spending a lot of money and getting practically nothing for it.

Isreal has like 12 airports. Thats not much of a system to have to keep secure. So I don't really see any correlation. Alaska alone has more than that.
 
Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

Isreal has like 12 airports. Thats not much of a system to have to keep secure. So I don't really see any correlation. Alaska alone has more than that.

No question. On the other hand, they face threats all day long, every day.And we have 300 million citizens. But, like I say, TSA already has 65 thousand Barney Fifes on the payroll. A cost/benefit ratio would need to be done certainly. But we ramped up this gigantic national "security" effort pretty quickly. I'm guessing we could change the protocols pretty quickly, too. Training of the interrogators would take some time and cost a lot of money. But what's the value we'd attach to a jetliners blown out of the sky? Certainly TSA isn't doing much to reduce the likelihood of THAT.
 
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Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

Right, you can also just request a search (same as refusal). Almost no one is asked to use the scanner in the first place. The old detectors are still used most of the time.

Those who fail the standard detectors are the most common people asked to use a scanner.

Oh, ok... So if you aren't a dumbass, and pack stuff that's actually allowed on the flight in your carry on and go through the proper procedures in checking your other bags/belongings, things will be fine... Oh good... That smart people like me will only be inconvienienced by morons who don't use common sense... Good to know!!!

Honestly, I'm not a huge flyer, but the few times I have flown, I've breezed through security by following procedure and packing things in the right manner... I don't get what is so hard about that??? Again, it sounds like people that are dumbasses are the ones that are getting singled out here... And if that's true, I am in full support... Stupid people deserve to have their rights violated...

(Note: Take the last comment with a grain of salt... This is a case where 99% of problems could be avoided by using common sense, but most people find that using said sense is inconvienient, so we can't have things the way they are...)
 
Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

Gloria Allred thinks you should sit back and enjoy your groping.
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(30 second mark)

Boy, talk about hazardous duty pay!
 
Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

If you want to find a needle in a haystack, a good place to start is to reduce the size of the haystack. As long as we continue to think that Sister Theresa and a young Muslim dude wearing a "death to the Great Satan" tee present identical risks, we wll continue to subject millions of Americans to avoidable risks of being murdered, and ever more humiliating "security" procedures.
 
Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

I ask again: is there anything you wouldn't want to put up with in the name of "security?" Whatever indignity they can devise, you'll just submit to it?

I have an artificial knee and have been subject to patdowns for years. One guy even patted my knee while I had shorts on and he could see it. That being said, I love the scanner. I get through in no time. If you moved to Iran I'm sure you could fly without indignities. Me? I call it safety, not indignity. But of course I'm not a paranoid pu$$y afraid of everything.
 
Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

I have an artificial knee and have been subject to patdowns for years. One guy even patted my knee while I had shorts on and he could see it. That being said, I love the scanner. I get through in no time. If you moved to Iran I'm sure you could fly without indignities. Me? I call it safety, not indignity. But of course I'm not a paranoid pu$$y afraid of everything.

Well, notwithstanding your juvenile name calling or your willingness to submit yourself without question to any government "security" procedure, no matter how far removed it is from providing actual "security" the relevant question is: can we do a better job? And the answer is obviously yes.

You're evidently so in love with "the government" that you're not even willing to consider, let alone concede that there might be a better way.

And I'm thinking if you'd stop reminicing about Barney Fife putting his hand on your knee (did you at least get dinner out of him?) you might be able to do a little better than your "iran" crack. Pretty middle schoolish, you ask me.
 
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Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

You have higher odds of dying from the radiation exposure from the back scatter scanner than you do from a terrorist attack, but security theatre is totally worth it.
 
Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

If you want to find a needle in a haystack, a good place to start is to reduce the size of the haystack. As long as we continue to think that Sister Theresa and a young Muslim dude wearing a "death to the Great Satan" tee present identical risks, we wll continue to subject millions of Americans to avoidable risks of being murdered, and ever more humiliating "security" procedures.

But why is it ok to inconvenience the Muslim if he is doing nothing wrong? I am sorry but that just doesnt seem right. Yes if he is giving you a reason then feel free to search and question, but if a guy happens to be of darker skin and dressed in Muslim garb and is standing in line that is not enough to just pull them aside and violate their liberties, not in this country I am sorry. That is why we are better than most, because you can be dark skinned and Muslim and not be discriminated against because of it.

And make no mistake, what you are suggesting is full on discrimination. Maybe it is justified in your mind and that is cool, but I am against discrimination in all of its forms and while I agree the measures we take now are ceremonial and dont really protect us it is unconstitutional to just walk through a line filled with people, pull aside anyone who looks Muslim and assume they are terrorists and move forward.
 
Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

You have higher odds of dying from the radiation exposure from the back scatter scanner than you do from a terrorist attack, but security theatre is totally worth it.

3 studies, including one by Johns Hopkins showed minimal rads.

I just shake my head. Can any gov't win? First we we hear there isn't enough attention to security and the gov't is weak. Everywhere else has better security, etc. They institute measures to address the possibility of a breach in security that they have proven is possible and they are invasive. I would rather have someone 'grope me' then have the alternative which is a lot more drastic if someone succeeds in blowing something up. These people do hundreds of pat downs. Maybe this would excite you but I doubt they much care except to get the person out of their face and move the line along. Of course there is the option of chartering a private jet so no one 'invades' your privacy~ or don't fly. The nonsense about people not flying is silly. How many complaints have there been compared to how many have flown. This is like my kid looking for some injustice to go off about.
 
Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

But why is it ok to inconvenience the Muslim if he is doing nothing wrong? I am sorry but that just doesnt seem right. Yes if he is giving you a reason then feel free to search and question, but if a guy happens to be of darker skin and dressed in Muslim garb and is standing in line that is not enough to just pull them aside and violate their liberties, not in this country I am sorry. That is why we are better than most, because you can be dark skinned and Muslim and not be discriminated against because of it.

And make no mistake, what you are suggesting is full on discrimination. Maybe it is justified in your mind and that is cool, but I am against discrimination in all of its forms and while I agree the measures we take now are ceremonial and dont really protect us it is unconstitutional to just walk through a line filled with people, pull aside anyone who looks Muslim and assume they are terrorists and move forward.

Actually, as I've indicated several times already, I basically agree. You're begging the question that "only" or "primarily" Muslims would be caught up in a system which emphasizes profiling, rather than one size fits all. Israel has many Muslim citizens and it's my understanding they pass through Israeli airports with ease.

I read an article recently by an American (WASP) who was pulled out of line for interrogation. Why? Because he had a significant number of passport stamps from middle eastern countries and Israeli security wanted to know why. He said the interrogation was intense, lasted maybe 15-20 minutes, and when the questioning was done, he was escorted to the head of the line.

Unless and until we can wrap our minds around the concept that not all "profiling" involves evil "racial profiling," then we'll never be able to intelligently discuss improving our security measures. Flip your assertions around, since all of these would-be terrorists come from certain countries, and since they all are followers of a certain religion, that means we should be concerned about Catholics? From France? Certainly any profiling regime would have to consider race, religion and country of origin. But not to the exclusion of other indicators that a traveler is up to no good or at least needs another look. How about considering age, sex, physical limitations and other factors? Police use common sense and their experience to pick out people who "don't look right" everyday and give those people a little extra attention. The Isreali's have just refined that process by several orders of magnitude.

What you're talking about is a crude, "round up the usual suspects" approach, which I'm not advocating.

If the police get a radio call about an armed robbery, and the suspect is described at looking like Conan O'Brien, what should the cops do? Stop AA, Latino and Asian dudes? Or start looking for guys with the map of Ireland on their puss? And if they do that, are they "racially profiling?"

So in your desire to avoid "violating the rights of Muslim Americans," you'd refer to violate the rights of ALL Americans? Apart from how silly that is, it doesn't improve our security, which is what this effort is supposed to be about.

Remember those Muslim dudes tossed off an airplane because: they were changing seats, talking loudly to each other in Arabic and requesting seatbelt extenders (which they didn't need) that could be used as weapons? They were tossed off the airplane and it was subsequently learned that these were "clerics" and their behavior was a stunt, designed to "prove" that there was a problem with "Islamophobia." Tell you what, these people SHOULD have been tossed off their flight, and it wouldn't have bothered me much if they'd been put on a no fly list (they could have taken Teddy Kennedy's slot). This is serious business. Lots of people have been murdered. And the Islamists would like to kill many more. It's not a game. And it's not a stunt.
 
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Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

You have higher odds of dying from the radiation exposure from the back scatter scanner than you do from a terrorist attack, but security theatre is totally worth it.

Can't we agree that if nuns are getting felt up by TSA drones, Osama has won?
 
Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

3 studies, including one by Johns Hopkins showed minimal rads.

Correct, thats how small the odds are of being killed in a terrorist attack. The radiation dose is minimal, but that adds up for frequent travelers, and a small percentage of the population are more susceptible to radiation damage. If you are only doing it on a few people it isn't a big risk, but if you add it up over the however many million airplane travelers per year, it starts to add up to a real risk. We are much better off spending the money on intelligence and actually stopping the attackers before they get to the airport, which is the only way we have ever actually managed to stop an attack. At this point the terrorists can either hide it up their ***, or just go bomb the security line where there are frequently more people present than there are on an airplane. The only significant improvement we've made in airplane security since 2001 is reinforcing the cockpit doors, and arming the pilots/flight marshals.
 
Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

This thread is..

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Someone throw a pie!
 
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