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St. Cloud State University HUSKIES!!

Re: St. Cloud State University HUSKIES!!

giwan said:
No such thing as natural high end talent.

It's almost all learned, save for size, maybe additional rods and cones to be able to see better etc. Even mix of muscle fibers for hockey players has been shown to be fairly typical not some huge percentage of fast twitch as several on this web site believe is the case.
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Any coach worth their salt will claim this. It justifies their efforts. By implication, of course, it also means the coach is 80% responsible for any success the team has. However, saying it does not necessarily make it true. Here's a recent article pointing this out: http://www.startribune.com/science/267608401.html
 
Re: St. Cloud State University HUSKIES!!

OldDave said:
Any coach worth their salt will claim this. It justifies their efforts. By implication, of course, it also means the coach is 80% responsible for any success the team has. However, saying it does not necessarily make it true. Here's a recent article pointing this out: http://www.startribune.com/science/267608401.html
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If interested, two decent books that I have read that support Giwan's premise are:

Malcolm Gladwell’s bestselling “Outliers” - in which he ballparks the 10,000-hour rule of "purposeful practice" to become an expert. It is an entertaining and easy read.

My recollection is Gladwell based his research on earlier and more comprehensive works such as Geoff Colvin's "Talent is Overrated".
 
Re: St. Cloud State University HUSKIES!!

96IllinoisDad said:
Malcolm Gladwell’s bestselling “Outliers” - in which he ballparks the 10,000-hour rule of "purposeful practice" to become an expert. It is an entertaining and easy read.
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It's also not very good. Among other things, it pretends that a collection of anecdotes constitutes real data.

With regards to the specific question of whether high end talent is "natural" or learned, the answer is that it's both. Yes, you need lots and lots of practice and experience to be at the top, but if you weren't at the extreme right of the distribution of inherent ability
 
Re: St. Cloud State University HUSKIES!!

Eeyore said:
It's also not very good. Among other things, it pretends that a collection of anecdotes constitutes real data.

With regards to the specific question of whether high end talent is "natural" or learned, the answer is that it's both. Yes, you need lots and lots of practice and experience to be at the top, but if you weren't at the extreme right of the distribution of inherent ability
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Bringing this back to hockey, what part of hockey is inherent ability? I would say close to zero. Raw skills and game sense are learned; and they're honed through many hours of practice and play.

I think there's not a single, simple answer. Or, as has been mis-attributed to H.L. Mencken: "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."

I think the 10,000 "rule" has some merit. It takes a lot of practice for folks to get good at stuff. Focused practice, or whatever label you want to call it. Harmonious passion is another huge ingredient, because without the passion and desire, it's hard to put in the time to learn and hone those skills. I don't think too many make it to D1 sports without harmonious passion. Those that do probably have obsessive passion.
 
Re: St. Cloud State University HUSKIES!!

AggiesHockey said:
Bringing this back to hockey, what part of hockey is inherent ability?
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Reaction times. Peripheral vision. Size. The basic musculature from which an athlete builds, which influences speed, strength, and other skills. This is hardly an exhaustive list.

All of it must be honed through practice but if you really think that everyone is starting from the same place with regards to basic abilities then you're deluded.
 
Re: St. Cloud State University HUSKIES!!

Eeyore said:
if you really think that everyone is starting from the same place with regards to basic abilities then you're deluded.
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so apparently then the ideal forward is 1" to either side of 5'5" judging from Gopher forwards

one thing you people are leaving out: parents

no, not for the inherited genes,
to be a college hockey princess you need parents who are willing to suffer by not buying a new Cadillac or Lexus, but instead pay for all the hockey equipment, practice, club teams ...
 
joehockey said:
Illikanen mostly played center at Providence very good at face offs. She was an outstanding freshman offensively. She struggled a bit as sophomore to match her freshman year offensively and had a very high +/-. If she trains hard this summer & stays healthy, happy and motivated she can have a big impact for SCSU Huskies.
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Great to hear she is a Center, SCWH need depth in all positions, but centre is key, I had LH#9 as their top line centre, that's a lot to ask from a sophomore in the tough WCHA.
 
pokechecker said:
one thing you people are leaving out: parents

no, not for the inherited genes,
to be a college hockey princess you need parents who are willing to suffer by not buying a new Cadillac or Lexus, but instead pay for all the hockey equipment, practice, club teams ...
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Of course a player who puts in the "10000" hours is going to be better than the player who has more natural ability and does not put in the require time to be at he/her best, but we are delusional to think natural talent/genes don't make up a lot of what it takes. Take some hockey families for instance, the 4 Staal brothers, the 5 Sutter brothers (and numerous sitter kids now playing in NHL), the 3 Reindhart brothers (all high end nhl prospects ) and etc, the list is long in many sports, don't tell me that they have all put in the so called "10000" hrs , and that's why they have made it. The % of society that makes professional sports is very very low, the % of society that is born from professional athletes whose kids make professional sports is much higher , coincidence ? I think not. It's not even close. Anyone who is playing professional sports, or playing Div1 or have reached a very high level of achievement in their sport, has not done it solely on hard work, that's ridiculous , Genes/ natural talent play a huge role! Yes, they still put in the hard work!
 
Re: St. Cloud State University HUSKIES!!

No such thing as "natural high end talent"??? Uh, sure.

The notion that "hard work" or "another 10,000 hours" will turn a 4th line college player into a star is not realistic. Yes, there are some girls who have multiplied their natural talents significantly, and yes, there are some players whose hard work and dedication takes them to a whole new level as a player. And yes, there are perhaps some overlooked girls who could play on a high-level D1 team...but I'll bet there are less than 5 players a class who would fall into that category. I'm no expert, but I've watched *a lot* of women's college hockey over the last 15 years or so. It's clear as a bell there is a slope of talent in this sport, as in any other.

And "college hockey princess"? There were Cadillacs and rusty pickups in the rinks where our daughter played and practiced. Plenty of girls arrived in the older cars, and played with used gear. Pretty sure there are quite a few college players who can say their first pair of brand new skates were the ones they received as freshmen their first year playing in college....
 
Re: St. Cloud State University HUSKIES!!

BigSandy said:
Great to hear she is a Center, SCWH need depth in all positions, but centre is key, I had LH#9 as their top line centre, that's a lot to ask from a sophomore in the tough WCHA.
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Very shifty the way you try to restore the subject matter to the topic in the name of the thread right in the middle of this fascinating conversation.
 
Re: St. Cloud State University HUSKIES!!

Otter+ said:
Very shifty the way you try to restore the subject matter to the topic in the name of the thread right in the middle of this fascinating conversation.
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:) the conversation is fascinating, so much so that even after I tried to restore back on too topic, I myself got dragged back out. what I find fascinating is that people , who I presume watch womens/mens hockey/sports can have such opposite opinion on what the fundamental reason people make professional sports and or great high end talent..
 
Re: St. Cloud State University HUSKIES!!

96IllinoisDad said:
With respect to adding players at this stage, SCSU hired a guy with vitually no exposure to the women's game. I don't suspect Rud caught many u19 or girls HS hockey games when he was in Colorado. He doesn't have any familiarity with the 2014 grads. At this time, he can't see any of them play in competitive games. So, I think it is highly unrealistic to expect him to add "new" kids to the roster. If he does, he has no idea who he is adding. I suppose he could entertain some more transfers, but he is much better off planning for 2015 and beyond, which is my guess what he is doing --- visiting and meeting with the current players, announced transfers and NLI signees and finding 2 new assistant coaches.
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Your right on, Rudd has virtually no exposure to the womens game. I hope he brings a "agressive" style of recruiting to the huskies, they need a good recruiting year, where they can bring in a top (nation) prospect/s. The key to help achieve this might be with the Assistant coaches, the problem with this year, they dont have any yet, wich is fine, take your time and get the right coaches, the assistants will be key while this program builds up.
 
Re: St. Cloud State University HUSKIES!!

BigSandy said:
but we are delusional to think natural talent/genes don't make up a lot of what it takes.
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and that's one of the main reasons it does run in families, people assume there is a connection, so perception becomes reality
Chelsea Clinton getting big bucks for a speech, yeah, she knows something the rest of us don't
the Kennedy brats making it in politics
Britain hanging on to their royal family .... the sun never sets on ... oh wait a minute, it did set, that's why it isn't called Great ...

apparently they never heard of the nature/nurture debate at SCSU
 
Re: St. Cloud State University HUSKIES!!

I hear 2 assistant coaches have been hired, anyone's guess who they might be? I had a inside scoop on Duluths assistant hire but have nothing on St Clouds..
 
Re: St. Cloud State University HUSKIES!!

BigSandy said:
I hear 2 assistant coaches have been hired, anyone's guess who they might be? I had a inside scoop on Duluths assistant hire but have nothing on St Clouds..
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Guess:
jinelle siergiej (zaugg)
jamie wood
 
Re: St. Cloud State University HUSKIES!!

I've been poking my big butt around, trying to find out about the new female coach, all my source would tell me is that she played in the Olympics.
Guesses??
 
Re: St. Cloud State University HUSKIES!!

Seems most teams have announced their rosters, wonder why SCWH has not released anything, that includes press clippings of new players. I know it's a new coach etc, but c'mon already. Tomorrow will be one month to the first game.
 
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