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Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Where should UMD expect to finish, given its competition, academic status, location, pool of local talent ... ?
I would think that as far as women's hockey goes, and given the early success, UMD and their fans should really expect the UMD women's team not to take a back seat to anyone, except perhaps the U of M.
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

The AD should have walked into her office, shook Miller's hand, thanked her for her year's of service, but told her they were not going to renew her contract because of the team's performance, and that would have been that. Her supporters in the Duluth, UMD and women's hockey community would have complained, briefly, but it would have been over.
Technically the AD really did not have to give a reason because it was a non-renewal, just that they want to go in another direction. The AD did handle this rather amateurishly and from reading the court document the Dept did act bush-league. I have this question.....are there any more gay coaches currently under contract besides Schuller? They are contending there is an anti-gay culture, so that question does come to mind.
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

The AD should have walked into her office, shook Miller's hand, thanked her for her year's of service, but told her they were not going to renew her contract because of the team's performance, and that would have been that. Her supporters in the Duluth, UMD and women's hockey community would have complained, briefly, but it would have been over.
Technically the AD really did not have to give a reason because it was a non-renewal, just that they want to go in another direction. The AD did handle this rather amateurishly and from reading the court document the Dept did act bush-league. I have this question.....are there any more gay coaches currently under contract besides Schuller? They are contending there is an anti-gay culture, so that question does come to mind.

Sure, but this is a common mistake people make.

He didn't need a reason because it was a non-renewal. Just like you don't need a reason to fire someone who is an "at-will" employee.

But, really, you should have a reason and shouldn't act unless you do. If you don't have a reason, then what kind of a decision maker are you? You're just making decisions like this for no reason at all?

Second, if you don't have a reason that is truthful and supported by the facts, then you leave the employee free to perceive what the reason is, and in their minds perception quickly becomes reality.

If the AD had acted as I suggested, Miller could have still sued. She still may have perceived sexual preference discrimination, and maybe that in fact existed. But UMD's defense would be so much easier if the AD had a clear, articulated reason for his actions, conveyed those and only those to Miller and the media, and acted accordingly.
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Sure. Let me amend my statement: in order to come to any sort of strong conclusion as to whether Miller's suit has merit, you need to know the answers to these questions. No one on these boards has done anything to do that, and so they really ought to state their belief that the lawsuit is without merit with a lot less certainty than they do. Mostly, they seem to be under the impression that it takes a lot less to disprove Miller's claims than it actually does. This is a frequent problem with the assessment of discrimination claims.

in addition to what ARM said, the reason it is mainly about W-L here is because that is what she made the argument about originally, it wasn't until after it was painfully aware she didn't deserve a contract extension that she came up with the university wasn't supporting her program, ... then it became the hostile environment, .... or as many have said she just throws stuff at a wall to see what sticks

I do agree with your statement about hiring another woman isn't going to matter, if they hired the new coach for any reason other than she was the best person for the job ... big fail, it hasn't helped with PR, those who think Miller got a raw deal still do, and I doubt it will make any difference in court

If the AD had acted as I suggested, Miller could have still sued.

and she would have,
Miller was not going to go silent into the night, …It’s always easy to say what somebody should have done in hindsight.
 
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Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

From the evidence, it appears that UMD had many good reasons to make the change, and also that the AD is a knucklehead. It wouldn't surprise me if he also found himself with enough free time to do some lawyering-up of his own.
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

I don't think anyone that's been around the game a long time would say that she ran the program into the ground. That's a pretty foolish statement to make. They seem to always be in the top 4 of the WCHA which I think most observers would agree is the top D1 women's hockey league. With the U and Wisco being the perennial top two powerhouses ever year I'd say being in the top 4 of the WCHA is pretty darned good because it's not an easy accomplishment to achieve every year.
 
I don't think anyone that's been around the game a long time would say that she ran the program into the ground. That's a pretty foolish statement to make. They seem to always be in the top 4 of the WCHA which I think most observers would agree is the top D1 women's hockey league. With the U and Wisco being the perennial top two powerhouses ever year I'd say being in the top 4 of the WCHA is pretty darned good because it's not an easy accomplishment to achieve every year.

Going from a perennial powerhouse to a program that can't get out of the first round of conference playoffs qualifies as running things into the ground if you ask me. Her teams couldn't shake the demons presented by Minnesota, UW & UND and somehow struggled even worse in the classroom.

If she was half the coach she says she is, UMD would never have missed an NCAA Tournament let alone four straight. All the talk about how much she cares about her athletes is painful to read. What athletes? It was always only about Shannon because she loves herself so much that she flat-out refuses to accept that she wore out her welcome at a place where she built the program up from scratch.
 
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Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

UMD will finish higher than "it should" this year. In the foreseeable future it will most likely be similar to Bemidji, St. Cloud State and Mankato. It is very common for the best players in MN to want to go to the main campus - there is no reason for that to change. UMD has never been on the same footing (same kinds of resources) as UM, UW or other bigger schools. UMD students are required to have higher TOFL scores than UM, UW and UND. UMD did well because Miller was the first to bring in recruits from other countries and her status as a national coach helped to bring players in. Without that UMD will fade away. Said as a huge UMD fan. And, Miller flat out could coach. She did more with the players she had in recent years than most coaches would have been able to. I think it's a sad time for the WCHA from a competitive point of view.
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

I think it's a sad time for the WCHA from a competitive point of view.
There was a time when that would have been true. With the emergence of teams like UND and Bemidji State in recent years, the competitive balance is still quite strong. Also, it remains to be seen what Crowell can do with the program. She may try other recruiting strategies that will pay off better than bringing in players from places like Australia did.
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Please God let this be true. I mean on the surface it makes enough sense. "Coach" Miller's favorite four-letter words should translate across all languages, and she loves touting her track record of coaching/developing Olympians and players who compete on the international stage.

Anyone seen Coach Miller around Marlborough MA as the Chinese Olympic team is currently training in that area. Exhibition game coming up for further info
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

From the evidence, it appears that UMD had many good reasons to make the change, and also that the AD is a knucklehead. It wouldn't surprise me if he also found himself with enough free time to do some lawyering-up of his own.

" Knucklehead"... such a comparison is an insult to knuckleheads everywhere!


Never go into a battle of wits unarmed:D
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

After watching the Bulldogs this weekend I have to admit I really enjoyed the new coach and her kids. They will be competitve and they sure looked like they were having fun out there. Is was so nice to watch a good women's hockey game and not have to watch the side show of Miller beating everyone up from he rplayers, officials and the opposing team. The WCHA is better without her for sure!
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

Madison Kolls?

she got booted by two different teams, is it discriminatory to throw a crappy player off the team?
seems to me her beef should be against Miller

McParland?
seems to me she should be suing Miller too, pretty much the poster child for underachieving UMD Bulldog hockey players under Miller

Villila:
pretty much the same as above, how did she make Finland's Olympic team?
are her parents big shots in Finland or something?
can't believe she made it based on her play in the WCHA
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

$10,000 for snacks? Are they eating caviar?

figure 21 players times 4 practices a week times 30 weeks and you end up around $3 a serving. Given the energy output that seems reasonable, a small rice krispie treat aint gonna cut it.
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?


"Lynne Williams, director of university marketing and public relations at UMD, said university officials haven't had time to fully review the specific allegations but said UMD denies the allegations."

I don't know what you said but it's not true!

What's this director of marketing...marketing? Dead brain cells?
 
Re: Shannon Miller out at UMD?

figure 21 players times 4 practices a week times 30 weeks and you end up around $3 a serving. Given the energy output that seems reasonable, a small rice krispie treat aint gonna cut it.

apparently it does for the women though :P
 
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