SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

[Red Cloud]

Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

Now you're just calling out random players on opposing teams?

What did Bruneteau do? You might be thinking of the Corban Knight hit on Connolly, but maybe you see different things in that world of yours.

Either way, the Knight hit was reviewed by the WCHA as an example of a clean hit that could still cause injury. So no hit to the head. Sorry. Plus, Connolly was right back playing the next weekend.

Nope! Just noting that he took a penalty for contact to the head against Duluth. Sicatoka keeps going on and on about how contact to the head is a penalty and thus we should all be happy that Marvin was suspended three games.

If I read you correctly, you're saying that contact to the head is perfectly OK as long as the guy doesn't get hurt from it. Phew! Good to know in the future!

This is *not* about cracking down on dangerous plays. This is A) the league being embarassed that they were light on Marvin for the Genoway hit (which I still haven't seen SCSU fans defend, much to your chagrin), and B) found an excuse to make up for it retroactively, plus tacking on more since it was a Hobey candidate he took down this time.

Oh, I'm sorry, I was supposed to say Genoway was a Hobey candidate too. My bad. Two Hobey candidates.

There. Now are you happy?

 

[bik4u62]

Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

When you begin a question with a false supposition, that's strawman.(facepalm)

Or when you word a question so that it forces an unintended answer -

Reporter: <i>"Senator, is it true you no longer beat your wife?"</i>
Senator: <i>"Beat my wife?? No, it's not true! I mean, Yes, I don't. I mean... wait, 'no longer'? No! Wait..."</i>

Marvin's hit on geno was an unfortunate mistake....

Marvilous guns for heads.

 

[PCM]

Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

Says you. When you begin a question with a false supposition, that's strawman.

So tell me, in which NCAA sport are players allowed to repeatedly engage in dangerous in-game conduct in violation of the rules without being subject to additional discipline?

Also, which of these suppositions is false?

1. Contact to the head is a penalty

2. The NCAA has a "zero tolerance" policy against hits to the head

3. Marvin made contact with Geoffrion's head in violation of the rules

4. Marvin also made contact with Genoway's head in violation of the rules

5. Marvin's contact to the head resulted in concussions to both players

6. The WCHA has the authority to assess additional discipline to players who repeatedly violate the rules in a dangeorus manner

Forgive me for setting up all these strawmen. I'm simply trying to discern which alternate reality you live in.

 

[brianvf]

Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

If I read you correctly, you're saying that contact to the head is perfectly OK as long as the guy doesn't get hurt from it. Phew! Good to know in the future!

This is *not* about cracking down on dangerous plays. This is A) the league being embarassed that they were light on Marvin for the Genoway hit (which I still haven't seen SCSU fans defend, much to your chagrin)

Wow, man, you're really reaching here. Funny to read.

No, contact to the head is not ok. And it's a penalty. I have no clue where you're reading that I said it was ok to hit the head as long as an injury didn't occur. The Knight incident didn't hit the head or result in injury. The Bruneteau penalty was just that...a penalty...since it was called as intended.

Much to my chagrin? I'm impressed at how the SCSU fans aren't defending Marvin over the Genoway hit, almost all that I have seen are saying it was cheap. I have no issue with that at all.

But, please...keep going. It makes for great reading. It's like our very own USCHO Soap Opera!

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

Wow, man, you're really reaching here. Funny to read.

I like to make you feel comfortable with a style you're used to.

PCM, if there was really a "zero tolerance" policy on CTH, there'd be far more suspensions handed out. Which is what I'm trying to illustrate and which you seem to be too thick to understand. So that's where your strawman begins.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

Nope! Just noting that he took a penalty for contact to the head against Duluth. Sicatoka keeps going on and on about how contact to the head is a penalty and thus we should all be happy that Marvin was suspended three games.

Contact to the head is a penalty. Don't like it? Change the book.

Show me the pattern of devastating hits to the head by a UND player and I'll advocate sitting the UND player.

And there's the key: Number of hits, types of hits, those will trigger further review and sanction. Like I said, if the league would've done it's job in November (and sat Marvin for more than a Saturday in Grand Forks) maybe none of us would be worring about Geoffreon's* future.

The NCAA made this a point of emphasis for a reason. I wonder if the reason didn't include input from their insurance carrier.

* Don't think that name, the grandson of "Boom Boom", didn't play into this. And when the "friends of Boom Boom" found out it was the second time in a season ... remember Ciskey's tweet: three games is a downgrade of what was planned.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

Contact to the head is a penalty. Don't like it? Change the book.

Broken record! Alright!

You're the one changing the book here, not me. There's "zero tolerance," remember? If there's "zero tolerance," and that's why there's a suspension, then surely, a suspension needs to be added to the penalty in the book, which currently only calls for a minor, major, or game DQ at the discretion of the referee.

But I just have one question, Sicatoka... is contact to the head a penalty?

 

[TRITT22]

Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

IMO, what is being lost in this debate is the horrible officiating and the three-ring circus being run by McLeod. Marvin's hit to Geoffrion was illegal, albeit unintentional. It should have been called RIGHT THERE. Personally as an SCSU fan, I would have had no problem with a DQ and even a suspension. But this officiating after the fact epotomizes the ineptitude of the officials and the league. And it goes further than this incident. The CC player WAY offsides on a goal against SCSU, the waived off goal in the same game, the UAA hit on Leddy, which resulted in no penalty or suspension, numerous other hits to the head which resulted in no penalty (after the "memo"), and the list goes on and on. The timing for Marvin's hit on Geoffrion was terrible, and he is being used as an example to suddenly "enforce" a rule that has been, at best, sporadically acknowledged by the WCHA officials. If they are going to call it consistently, it shouldn't take a concussion and a subsequent review. It should be called on the ice.

Three games is excessive; two games would have been palatable if it had been assessed along with a penalty during the game and assessed immediately. McLeod should be embarassed.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

IMO, what is being lost in this debate is the horrible officiating and the three-ring circus being run by McLeod. Marvin's hit to Geoffrion was illegal, albeit unintentional. It should have been called RIGHT THERE. Personally as an SCSU fan, I would have had no problem with a DQ and even a suspension. But this officiating after the fact epotomizes the ineptitude of the officials and the league. And it goes further than this incident. The CC player WAY offsides on a goal against SCSU, the waived off goal in the same game, the UAA hit on Leddy, which resulted in no penalty or suspension, numerous other hits to the head which resulted in no penalty (after the "memo"), and the list goes on and on. The timing for Marvin's hit on Geoffrion was terrible, and he is being used as an example to suddenly "enforce" a rule that has been, at best, sporadically acknowledged by the WCHA officials. If they are going to call it consistently, it shouldn't take a concussion and a subsequent review. It should be called on the ice.

Three games is excessive; two games would have been palitable if it had been assessed along with a penalty during the game and assessed immediately. McLeod should be embarassed.

Dude, your common sense isn't welcome around here.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

Since you don't like CTH, try this ...

Supplementary Discipline

SECTION 10. The proper disciplinary authority may, at the conclusion of the game, and at its discretion, investigate any incident that occurs in connection with any game and may assess additional suspensions for any offense committed before, during or after a game by a player, coach or onplaying personnel, independent of whether such offense had been penalized by a referee. The proper disciplinary authority may not decrease any penalties assessed before, during or after the game by the on-ice officials.

Note: The proper disciplinary authority has a responsibility to identify the proper penalized player.

Allow me to translate for those of you from SCSU:

The WCHA can review any play from a game and hand out suspensions, whether or not it was called in a game.​

Apparently Marvin's hit didn't look good on McLeod's monitor, or Geoffreon's head.

 

[TRITT22]

Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

Dude, your common sense isn't welcome around here.

Sorry! I forgot where I was at. I'll back away slowly.........

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

I think what's lost is how amazing all the whining is about consistency. Red Cloud's apparent argument is two fold.

1. Contact to the head isn't always called on the ice.
2. Contact to the head isn't always given a suspension afterwards by the league.

Oh, and don't forget 3. You apparently only get suspended if your a Hobey candidate.

What's lost in that is that since the beginning of time the severity of the result has always mattered.

Fact is The Sicatoka has cited the proper references. No two ways about it.

See, it doesn't matter nor has it ever mattered that Marvin hit the guy in the head. What matters is the end result of that hit to the head. Wrong place, wrong time. Bad luck. Whatever. That's all that matters, and that's all that ever mattered. And it has nothing to do with whether or not contact to the head is always called, whether a suspension is always given, or who the player happened to be that got drilled.

 

[HumRsky]

Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

After some time away and looking back at the thread, I've realized two things (well, more than two, but I'm only interested in talking about two).

1. I did not make particular point clear, so here I go again...I'm not particularly upset by the 3 game suspension merely because I thought Marvin was under-punished for the Genoway hit (and I'm a little disappointed in Motzko for not doling out additional punishment himself). However, if the league decides to use this hit as a precendent for 3 game suspensions, I think that would be unfortunate. I DO believe contact to the head should be a penalty in all cases, if this was player X with no history of dirty play or suspensions making the exact same hit on Geoffrion, I think a suspension is going too far, but a minor penalty SHOULD be assessed and a major would be a judgement call on the refs' part. I am referring ONLY to this hit, of course there are hits that are more or less severe and should be dealt with appropriately. i would also like to see more punishment given to those with a clear intent to injure body parts other than the head.

2. I think a lot of people agree with each other on most parts of this discussion, everyone is just caught up in hating us, and us returning the hate

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

The WCHA can review any play from a game and hand out suspensions, whether or not it was called in a game.​

Boy, you're still striking out with this "I'm smarter than you are because I can read" game.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

IMO, what is being lost in this debate is the horrible officiating and the three-ring circus being run by McLeod.

You are way late to that party.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

Boy, you're still striking out with this "I'm smarter than you are because I can read" game.

No, you're upset that your guy is this season's "Trevor Bruess".

I'm pointing out that Marvin, per the rules, made it easy for McLeod. Marvin should've been smarter than that and learned back in November.

 

[TRITT22]

Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

Since you don't like CTH, try this ...



Allow me to translate for those of you from SCSU:

The WCHA can review any play from a game and hand out suspensions, whether or not it was called in a game.​

Apparently Marvin's hit didn't look good on McLeod's monitor, or Geoffreon's head.

And my point was the officiating. Why wasn't it called in the game? Did the officials on the ice at the time not believe it was a penalty? Were they not watching CENTER ICE where the puck was being played? Again, I wasn't debating whether or not it was a penalty - or even whether a suspension was appropriate. Can you agree that if there is an issue with a hit to the head, it should be addressed when it happens - and on a consistent basis?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

And my point was the officiating. Why wasn't it called in the game? Did the officials on the ice at the time not believe it was a penalty? Were they not watching CENTER ICE where the puck was being played? Again, I wasn't debating whether or not it was a penalty - or even whether a suspension was appropriate. Can you agree that if there is an issue with a hit to the head, it should be addressed when it happens - and on a consistent basis?

Irrelevant to the discussion. Refs have never nor will they ever "see" everything that happens in a game.

 

[motox]

Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

Wow. That was a lot to catch up on.

Let's summarize:

1. Everyone agrees Marvins hit on Genoway was dirty, cheap, etc etc and that he should've received a longer suspension. Aye.

2. Everyone agrees that Marvins hit on Geoffrion should've been a penalty but due to the inadequate officiating we have here in the WCHA nothing was called. Aye.

3. Some believe Marvin intended to injure Geoffrion with a malicious hit to the head. Nay.

4. Some believe Marvin intended for a big open ice hit with no intent to injure. Aye.

5. Most agree that the suspension of 3 games is excessive for that hit, however, is more than likely a make-up call for the inadequate punishment of the hit on Genoway and the fact that it came from the same guy. Aye.

6. There are a number of side arguments/tangents out there. Ugh.

7. Feel free to add on........

Now, since everyone else seems to want to give their interpretation of the play here's mine: If you play the video and pause it exactly at :32 seconds you will see Geoffrion's right shoulder in line with the check Marvin is about to deliver. Between :32 and :33 seconds you will see Geoffrion in the process of adjusting to the position of the puck (between his feet) and pulling his right shoulder BACK, thus removing it (the shoulder) from the point of contact and exposing his head. Can anyone please explain to me how someone moving at that speed and on skates is supposed to recognize and decipher the fact that the persons shoulder they were about to check has just been pulled back and their head is now the point of contact when they have UNDER 1 second?

I understand UND fans being upset with Marvin on the Genoway hit, and rightly so. I understand Wisco fans being upset that Geoffrion is out and the situation, but I don't understand the calling for Marvins head. Does anyone, including myself, really think any of our arguments are going to change the way someone else feels about the situation? Maybe, but most likely not.

 

[TRITT22]

Re: SCSU Season Thread 2-Do We Hate Everybody as Much as They Hate Us?

You are way late to that party.

Probably. I have a job and don't have time to review 10 pages of commentary for the short time I spend on here.