SCSU and UW: Badger hunting

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: SCSU and UW: Badger hunting

Last time I checked, hits from behind are still illegal. All the NCAA did was give refs the option of calling them as major or minor penalties, depending on the severity of the hit.

There was a time in the NFL when clotheslining and spearing with the helmet was legal. But the league wisely realized that allowing these hits put players lives and careers in danger. So they implemented rules against those hits, which is exactly what the NCAA has done by adopting a zero tolerance policy for hits to the head.

It doesn't matter if it was okay in the past. It doesn't matter if you think it's a good rule or a good policy. The rule is in the book, and it's the role of WCHA officials to enforce the rules.

+1

 

[scsutommyboy]

Re: SCSU and UW: Badger hunting

Pat LaFontaine just gave you a big middle finger. It's obvious that you know nothing about concussions and head injuries and how serious they are.

I wasn't comparing hockey to a rape, I was trying to make my statement look as stupid as yours was saying that hits to the head should be legal. It's one thing to argue if the hit was intentional, dirty or whatever, but to say that head contact should be legal? That bothers me.

Of Course they are serious, but in a contact sport bad things happen on legal hits. Players learn at a very young age to keep your head up or things like we all saw last night will happen. That is why every coach over and over again tells his players to keep their head up. Every kid is taught to lead with your shoulder and that is what Marivin did. Unless you say you can't check in the open ice how do call that a penalty? Has Eaves commented on the hit yet? I doubt he would say it was a dirty hit.

 

[scsutommyboy]

Re: SCSU and UW: Badger hunting

Last time I checked, hits from behind are still illegal. All the NCAA did was give refs the option of calling them as major or minor penalties, depending on the severity of the hit.

There was a time in the NFL when clotheslining and spearing with the helmet was legal. But the league wisely realized that allowing these hits put players lives and careers in danger. So they implemented rules against those hits, which is exactly what the NCAA has done by adopting a zero tolerance policy for hits to the head.

It doesn't matter if it was okay in the past. It doesn't matter if you think it's a good rule or a good policy. The rule is in the book, and it's the role of WCHA officials to enforce the rules.

It wasn't from behind...

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: SCSU and UW: Badger hunting

Of Course they are serious, but in a contact sport bad things happen on legal hits. Players learn at a very young age to keep your head up or things like we all saw last night will happen. That is why every coach over and over again tells his players to keep their head up. Every kid is taught to lead with your shoulder and that is what Marivin did. Unless you say you can't check in the open ice how do call that a penalty? Has Eaves commented on the hit yet? I doubt he would say it was a dirty hit.

I'm still trying to figure out if your messing with me or not. I mean...you have to be right? You simply could not be stupid enough to believe that this was a legal hit. Have you read the definition of the penalty for contact to the head? I'm assuming either no, or again, your messing with me because no one could be that stupid.

And to turn this around by saying that what, Geoffrion had it coming because he had his head down? He got a pass in his skates bro. What was he supposed to do?

Your messing with me right? Tell me your not this stupid?
-----------------------------------------
Contact to the Head:

SECTION 8. A player shall not make contact with an opposing player’s head or neck area in any manner.

PENALTY—Minor or major or disqualification at the discretion of the referee. Contact to the head shall be assessed in front of the infraction (i.e., contact to the head – elbow).

Note: The rules committee instructs officials to use a zero tolerance policy in this area.
-----------------------------------------
Pretty clear cut to me bro.

 

[PCM]

Re: SCSU and UW: Badger hunting

It wasn't from behind...

That's not the point. You said:

A hit like this reminds me of checking from behind calls. When they first made the rule they said all hits are penalties. Then they realized that makes no sense so now they allow the ref a judgement on it.

This makes it sound as if the officials were given discretion on calling hits from behind, as if sometimes they're legal and sometimes they're not. The NCAA modified the rule to give officials discretion in assessing a major or a minor penalty on a hit from behind.

The NCAA gives no discretion in calling hits to the head. The official NCAA policy is "zero tolerance." But, as with checking from behind, the rule does give discretion for whether a hit to the head is a major or a minor penalty.

 

[motox]

Re: SCSU and UW: Badger hunting

Sorry for quoting you Dude Love, because I don't know where that Sloe Gin post came from.

Sloe Gin,

If one out of three girls that got raped that you know made it up, wouldn't that be 33%? I'm no math major you might have to check that.

I said the exact same thing. I'll chalk it up to poorly worded and still scary as hell that people think that way.

 

[scsutommyboy]

Re: SCSU and UW: Badger hunting

That's not the point. You said:

This makes it sound as if the officials were given discretion on calling hits from behind, as if sometimes they're legal and sometimes they're not. The NCAA modified the rule to give officials discretion in assessing a major or a minor penalty on a hit from behind.

The NCAA gives no discretion in calling hits to the head. The official NCAA policy is "zero tolerance." But, as with checking from behind, the rule does give discretion for whether a hit to the head is a major or a minor penalty.

So every hit from behind is a penalty? I have seen plenty of hits from behind not called. I will give a perfect example. If a player turns his back on purpose at the last second in hopes of drawing a penalty it is not called. That happens all the time.....Just like Every hit to the head is not cheap or a penalty. If a guy has his head down like last night, it should not be a penalty. And before you say it, yes I realize he wasn't trying to draw an penatly last night.... Life is not black and white and neither is hockey.

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: SCSU and UW: Badger hunting

So every hit from behind is a penalty? I have seen plenty of hits from behind not called. I will give a perfect example. If a player turns his back on purpose at the last second in hopes of drawing a penalty it is not called. That happens all the time.....Just like Every hit to the head is not cheap or a penalty. If a guy has his head down like last night, it should not be a penalty. And before you say it, yes I realize he wasn't trying to draw an penatly last night.... Life is not black and white and neither is hockey.

Tommy, did you eat a lot of paint chips as a kid?

Contact to the Head:

SECTION 8. A player shall not make contact with an opposing player’s head or neck area in any manner.

PENALTY—Minor or major or disqualification at the discretion of the referee. Contact to the head shall be assessed in front of the infraction (i.e., contact to the head – elbow).

Note: The rules committee instructs officials to use a zero tolerance policy in this area.

 

[scsutommyboy]

Re: SCSU and UW: Badger hunting

Tommy, did you eat a lot of paint chips as a kid?

Contact to the Head:

SECTION 8. A player shall not make contact with an opposing player’s head or neck area in any manner.

PENALTY—Minor or major or disqualification at the discretion of the referee. Contact to the head shall be assessed in front of the infraction (i.e., contact to the head – elbow).

Note: The rules committee instructs officials to use a zero tolerance policy in this area.

I realize that is the rule. I said back a number of posts ago that the wording needed to be changed. The refs do not call it black and white like the rule.

 

[cg_siouxfan]

Re: SCSU and UW: Badger hunting

"He turned his head at the last second, so it's his fault"



Wrong, you have to be in control of your body when you're on the ice. You have to be able to adjust to changing conditions.

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: SCSU and UW: Badger hunting

I realize that is the rule. I said back a number of posts ago that the wording needed to be changed. The refs do not call it black and white like the rule.

I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall here. I'm hanging up the skates on this subject.

 

[PCM]

Re: SCSU and UW: Badger hunting

So every hit from behind is a penalty?

What is it about this rule that makes you think it's not?

Hitting From Behind
SECTION 23. a. A player shall not push, charge, cross-check or body check
an opponent from behind in open ice.
PENALTY—Minor or major at the discretion of the referee.
b. Hitting from behind into the side boards, end boards or goal cage is a
flagrant violation.
PENALTY—Major and game misconduct or disqualification at the
discretion of the referee.
Note: The committee reminds coaches and players that the responsibility
remains with the player approaching an opponent along the boards in this
rule. While players turning to draw penalties are a concern, the positive
change in behavior the committee observed outweighs this issue. Any penalty
in relation to this rule along the boards or into the goal cage must be a major
penalty and a game misconduct or disqualification.

I think it could be reasonably argued that Marvin's hit on Geoffrion also meets the definition of charging. I count at least three steps by Marvin before he hits Geoffrion from the side.

ChargingSECTION 6. a. A player shall not skate more than two steps or jump into or
charge an opponent. Charging is the action of a player, who as a result
of distance traveled, checks an opponent violently in any manner from
the front or side.
Note: A fair body check is one in which a player checks an opponent who is in
possession of the puck, by using the hip or body from the front or diagonally
from the front or straight from the side.
PENALTY—Minor or major at discretion of the referee.

Or how about this one?

Excessive Roughness
SECTION 13. A player shall not commit an action not permitted by the rules
that may cause or causes an injury to an opponent, to team personnel or to
a game official.
PENALTY—Disqualification.

 

[Pucky-Bucky Backer]

Re: SCSU and UW: Badger hunting

I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall here. I'm hanging up the skates on this subject.

I think our opponents were somehow switched. I expect this sort of insanity from 'kato not St. Cloud.

 

[Red Till I'm Dead!]

Re: SCSU and UW: Badger hunting

"He turned his head at the last second, so it's his fault"



Wrong, you have to be in control of your body when you're on the ice. You have to be able to adjust to changing conditions.

Your right, Marvin cannot control his body or it was intentional. Sorry the argument that he "just" happened to hit JUST Geoffrion's head coming from slightly behind him DOES NOT hold any water. If that argument does work for you, than you have an asst. captian that cannot control his body and should be a liability on the ice.

So SCSU fans, is Marvin a liability because he has poor body control? Or do these unfortunate hits only happen when he goes after your opponents best players?

Riddle me that?
Now lets here the BS excuses

 

[The Boomer]

Re: SCSU and UW: Badger hunting

How 'bout this: Geoffrion at center ice gets a pass in his skates, looks down to find the puck and Marvin throws a shoulder check at him. Said check hits him in the head and injures #5. Marvin should have been called for a 2 minute "hit to the head" penalty. There wasn't a call.

Wisco wins the game, 7-4. Marvin's reputation as a cheap player continues. You play Tech next weekend--the Huskies have a bye. SCSU has to now figure out how Marvin's reputation (hit on Genoway and hit on Geoffrion) all plays in on prepping for possibly one of SCSU's best seasons.

Why don't you just worry about the Tech Huskies.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: SCSU and UW: Badger hunting

How 'bout this: Geoffrion at center ice gets a pass in his skates, looks down to find the puck and Marvin throws a shoulder check at him. Said check hits him in the head and injures #5. Marvin should have been called for a 2 minute "hit to the head" penalty. There wasn't a call.

Wisco wins the game, 7-4. Marvin's reputation as a cheap player continues. You play Tech next weekend--the Huskies have a bye. SCSU has to now figure out how Marvin's reputation (hit on Genoway and hit on Geoffrion) all plays in on prepping for possibly one of SCSU's best seasons.

Why don't you just worry about the Tech Huskies.

I don't think SCSU fans would feel this cavalier if Wisconsin had a player who viciously checked say Jordan Schroeder from behind ending his season, on a hit that could have ended his career or worse, then said player takes a shot at Garret Roe or Ryan Lasch's head in a series about 2 months later adding to a reputation built from his high school days of playing near or over the edge.

You guys would be calling for this x player to be shown the door. just be honest about this.

 

[Pucky-Bucky Backer]

Re: SCSU and UW: Badger hunting

I don't think SCSU fans would feel this cavalier if Wisconsin had a player who viciously checked say Jordan Schroeder from behind ending his season, on a hit that could have ended his career or worse, then said player takes a shot at Garret Roe or Ryan Lasch's head in a series about 2 months later adding to a reputation built from his high school days of playing near or over the edge.

You guys would be calling for this x player to be shown the door. just be honest about this.

We might get a chance to see this in the semis at the WCHA Final Five.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: SCSU and UW: Badger hunting

We might get a chance to see this in the semis at the WCHA Final Five.

If you mean the part about running Lasch or Roe I hope not. If UW meets up with SCSU at any point from here forward I'd just like to see UW play as hard as they can until the whistle and the goalie (whomever it is) better have his head out of his *** and make the saves he's supposed to make or it could be a hell of a short post-season

 

[Scottyp]

Re: SCSU and UW: Badger hunting

Watching the replay closely, Marvin comes from behind and to the right of Geoffrion, who is trying to handle a puck in his skates, drops his left shoulder to duck under Geoffrion's, and then uses his shoulder to nail him right in the head/face. I suppose, trying to put down my Wisconsin colored glasses, you could argue he was trying to avoid a check from behind by trying to get in front of him. But once he got in front of him by going under his shoulder, he chose to hit him in the head. Geoffrion's head was not moving. In other words, he didn't "aim at his shoulder and miss because Geoffrion dropped his head".

You could argue it wasn't his intention to hurt him. Its tough to prove intent. But its just as hard to argue that the hit was innocent. Given his hit on Chenoway - a hit by the way where he took 5 or 6 picking up speed strides to absolutely drill Chenoway into the boards with his elbow to the back of his neck - he doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt. He forfeited it by what looked like a hit to almost intentionally injure Chenoway. Time for him to lie in his own bed.

Its also time for SCSU fans to maybe acknowledge there's a legitimate issue here.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: SCSU and UW: Badger hunting

Its also time for SCSU fans to maybe acknowledge there's a legitimate issue here.

Wake up. You obviously haven't been reading the reactions. I'm sorry we aren't condemning Aaron Marvin to hell the way you want us to.