Save Uah Hockey!

[streaker]

Re: Save Uah Hockey!

Speculation, this is a message board, almost 85% of the stuff written here is such, so your point is? The fact remains is that the CCHA exception for Michigan, Miami (recently), MSU (except last year), Norte Dame (recently) the CCHA is a league stuffed full of teams (that some might call cup cakes) that for no better words SUCK and the reason we have seen for UAH being denied are weak at best and come off as being snobby and pompous when frankly they honestly don’t have the right to be. Come on. What have the weak sisters of the CCHA done in the last 15 years? Last season UAH drew better in attendance than some of the current members of the CCHA with teams from the CHA. I am still smelling bull ****.

Michigan 19 6714 6,637 101.2
Michigan State 15 5473 6,470 84.6
Ohio State 20 4181 17,500 23.9
Northern Michigan 19 2932 3,754 78.1
Alaska 20 2708 4,324 62.6
Notre Dame 18 2703 2,667 101.3
UAH 10 2688 7,000 38.4
Miami 19 2491 3,200 77.8
Lake Superior 18 2257 3,373 66.9
Western Michigan 21 2112 3,667 57.6
Bowling Green 20 2044 5,000 40.9
Ferris State 18 1424 2,493 57.1
[from where I pulled it out of]

So, by your logic, the league is stuffed full of teams that suck, little sisters of the poor, et. al. All the more reason that UAH should join, right?

It's because:

1. If they suck as bad, then what's the difference if they add another suck team (that the WCHA will snicker about) that will also drown down the PWR and SoS of the league. It can not be any worse than it is;

or

2. If they don't suck as bad and are at least as competitive as UNO, then they won't help your league's PWR much, but at least you gave an orphan program a home that actually might raise the league's average attendance;

or

3. If they don't suck at all, and actually do pretty well and fill their arena, it's not on the merits of the program but more on the merits of the league that they are joining with all of the suck teams. They'll still suck even if they make an odd NCAA appearance and not be as good as teams in the WCHA, but that's your problem;

I get it. Nothing like the arrogance of the WCHA to tell our league how snobby they are and judge what is in their best interests.

 

[CammieBuckeye]

Re: Save Uah Hockey!

I don't buy the argument about the long bus rides, etc. The trip to UNO is pretty much the same to UAH. The argument is that with UNO gone, it cuts down on big travel, with the exception of Alaska. The athletes may be passing their classes, but they were strained with the big travel. Well no sh*t sherlock. Travel is not glamorous or fun most of the time. But these athletes knew that when they signed up to play hockey at this level. If they are good students, they will be alright. They will learn how to manage their time and do their best on the ice and in the classroom. That's a good life lesson they are learning. If they struggle with managing time, then I'm am sure these schools have resources to help them out. It may be harder for them, but again, it's a good life lesson to learn about managing time and priorities.

 

[Goon]

Re: Save Uah Hockey!

So, by your logic, the league is stuffed full of teams that suck, little sisters of the poor, et. al. All the more reason that UAH should join, right?

I am saying they shouldn't be looking down their noses at UAH.

 

[4four4]

Re: Save Uah Hockey!

I don't think you can really expect them to be more specific than they were without damaging members by publicly stating a lack of confidence in their ability to stay afloat. Perpetuating the idea that certain programs are on the ropes (in an official statement from the league, no less) makes it that much harder for them to recruit, garner support, and rebuild themselves.

Thanks.

You basically showed the CCHA is in awful shape and are having a hard time promoting hockey.

 

[kdilks]

Re: Save Uah Hockey!

Speculation, this is a message board, almost 85% of the stuff written here is such, so your point is?

I guess my point is the other 15% of stuff written on here with evidence and analysis to back it up is a little more convincing than speculation from people who seem to have nothing better to do than trash-talk the CCHA so they can feel better about themselves.

Great, so UAH had higher average attendance than some teams last year. They also would have had one of the lowest attendance percentages in the league. It might not be a major thing, but it does generally look bad when you're playing in a barn that's less than half full (I count OSU as an exception because they're clearly playing in a facility with capacity beyond their means, and they do curtain off the upper bowls). Even the schools in the CCHA with low attendance can manage to fill up and have a good environment for the "big" games, and have something to show recruits. I don't know if Huntsville is capable of that (partially doubt, but more not taking the time to check their individual game attendances over the past few years).

Also, does that mean they'd maintain that attendance level as a regular member of the CCHA? I can think of a few reasons why people might think that's not the case. First of all, they only had 10 home games last year (over 5 weekends). It's not at all obvious that this would scale to a full conference schedule. Last year, if you went to handful of UAH games, you went to a significant percentage of the games. If you spread out these people that only go to a handful of games over a larger number of home games, average attendance drops. Of course, more people might come to games with more opportunities to attend the games, but how much those balance each other out is a judgment call. Also, UAH was playing in a league where they were (generally) competitive, and vying for a bid to the national tournament. Would there be the same level of interest if they're suddenly a league doormat, and the best they can reasonably hope for is home ice in the first round before getting crushed by Michigan/Michigan State/Notre Dame/Miami?

I admit that most of that is more or less speculation, but it's the kind of speculation that league administrators may have done, and has some reasoning behind it. Personally, I think it would be far more productive to try and legitimately understand what type of thinking the CCHA may have used and honestly address those points, rather than antagonizing the CCHA and quickly dismissing their reasoning because everybody's so optimistic and hopeful that everything would work out.

 

[kdilks]

Re: Save Uah Hockey!

Thanks.

You basically showed the CCHA is in awful shape and are having a hard time promoting hockey.

Yeah, a couple schools are. You realize the economy hasn't been doing well in CCHA country lately, right?

 

[kdilks]

Re: Save Uah Hockey!

I don't buy the argument about the long bus rides, etc. The trip to UNO is pretty much the same to UAH. The argument is that with UNO gone, it cuts down on big travel, with the exception of Alaska. The athletes may be passing their classes, but they were strained with the big travel. Well no sh*t sherlock. Travel is not glamorous or fun most of the time. But these athletes knew that when they signed up to play hockey at this level. If they are good students, they will be alright. They will learn how to manage their time and do their best on the ice and in the classroom. That's a good life lesson they are learning. If they struggle with managing time, then I'm am sure these schools have resources to help them out. It may be harder for them, but again, it's a good life lesson to learn about managing time and priorities.

Maybe schools found out from experience that the additional bus trip put more strain on students than they would like to have. Personally, I don't think I'd be able to get much work done on a bus, not to mention that you're SOL if you need to work in a group or have internet access. You can get by having weekends like that every so often, but it's not the kind of thing I'd like to deal with more often than I had to as a student.

 

[gfmorris]

Re: Save Uah Hockey!

Great, so UAH had higher average attendance than some teams last year. They also would have had one of the lowest attendance percentages in the league. It might not be a major thing, but it does generally look bad when you're playing in a barn that's less than half full (I count OSU as an exception because they're clearly playing in a facility with capacity beyond their means, and they do curtain off the upper bowls). Even the schools in the CCHA with low attendance can manage to fill up and have a good environment for the "big" games, and have something to show recruits. I don't know if Huntsville is capable of that (partially doubt, but more not taking the time to check their individual game attendances over the past few years).

Also, does that mean they'd maintain that attendance level as a regular member of the CCHA? I can think of a few reasons why people might think that's not the case. First of all, they only had 10 home games last year (over 5 weekends). It's not at all obvious that this would scale to a full conference schedule. Last year, if you went to handful of UAH games, you went to a significant percentage of the games. If you spread out these people that only go to a handful of games over a larger number of home games, average attendance drops. Of course, more people might come to games with more opportunities to attend the games, but how much those balance each other out is a judgment call. Also, UAH was playing in a league where they were (generally) competitive, and vying for a bid to the national tournament. Would there be the same level of interest if they're suddenly a league doormat, and the best they can reasonably hope for is home ice in the first round before getting crushed by Michigan/Michigan State/Notre Dame/Miami?

We filled our barn when we were playing in the D-II days. Obviously, we've got our share of front-running fans in town. I think that attendance figure is pretty good for a terrible, five-win season.

We draw for name teams. Army and Air Force were always our biggest draws when we played them regularly---admittedly, partially because of a strong military influence in town. Yale's trip here was our biggest attendance weekend in 2007-8.

JOE BAMA is always asking me when some Big Ten football school is coming to Huntsville to play. The rednecks around here want to see us mix it up with the big boys. Admittedly, that's the situation that everyone's in around here, though. When Northern came to Huntsville in 2004-5, it was our best non-Bemidji home crowds of the season.

GFM

 

[CHAfan]

Re: Save Uah Hockey!

I guess my point is the other 15% of stuff written on here with evidence and analysis to back it up is a little more convincing than speculation from people who seem to have nothing better to do than trash-talk the CCHA so they can feel better about themselves.

Great, so UAH had higher average attendance than some teams last year. They also would have had one of the lowest attendance percentages in the league. It might not be a major thing, but it does generally look bad when you're playing in a barn that's less than half full (I count OSU as an exception because they're clearly playing in a facility with capacity beyond their means, and they do curtain off the upper bowls). Even the schools in the CCHA with low attendance can manage to fill up and have a good environment for the "big" games, and have something to show recruits. I don't know if Huntsville is capable of that (partially doubt, but more not taking the time to check their individual game attendances over the past few years).

Also, does that mean they'd maintain that attendance level as a regular member of the CCHA? I can think of a few reasons why people might think that's not the case. First of all, they only had 10 home games last year (over 5 weekends). It's not at all obvious that this would scale to a full conference schedule. Last year, if you went to handful of UAH games, you went to a significant percentage of the games. If you spread out these people that only go to a handful of games over a larger number of home games, average attendance drops. Of course, more people might come to games with more opportunities to attend the games, but how much those balance each other out is a judgment call. Also, UAH was playing in a league where they were (generally) competitive, and vying for a bid to the national tournament. Would there be the same level of interest if they're suddenly a league doormat, and the best they can reasonably hope for is home ice in the first round before getting crushed by Michigan/Michigan State/Notre Dame/Miami?

I admit that most of that is more or less speculation, but it's the kind of speculation that league administrators may have done, and has some reasoning behind it. Personally, I think it would be far more productive to try and legitimately understand what type of thinking the CCHA may have used and honestly address those points, rather than antagonizing the CCHA and quickly dismissing their reasoning because everybody's so optimistic and hopeful that everything would work out.

UAH drew 4300 against Bemidji State last year, and that was in the middle of a really bad season for them. Ask anyone who has been there - the atmosphere is good even with 2000 in attendance. Your logic on more home games diluting the attendance pool is also off. The fact is with only 5 home weekends on the schedule the non-diehard fans don't even know when games are because they are so irregular. "Come back in two weeks" from the announcer is something people will remember - "Come back in seven weeks" is not. With regular home games there gets to be a rhythm and people know UAH hockey is something to do on the weekend.

 

[fangers]

Re: Save Uah Hockey!

Maybe schools found out from experience that the additional bus trip put more strain on students than they would like to have. Personally, I don't think I'd be able to get much work done on a bus, not to mention that you're SOL if you need to work in a group or have internet access. You can get by having weekends like that every so often, but it's not the kind of thing I'd like to deal with more often than I had to as a student.

You've obviously never played hockey at an advanced level...by the time most these guys get to college level they've played several years of juniors, often preceded by midgets...both chock full of bus trips nd balancing schoolwork...they have their routines, it's not as bad as you make it out to be...

 

[kdilks]

Re: Save Uah Hockey!

You've obviously never played hockey at an advanced level...by the time most these guys get to college level they've played several years of juniors, often preceded by midgets...both chock full of bus trips nd balancing schoolwork...they have their routines, it's not as bad as you make it out to be...

If you're trying to do more than just scrape by, college is also considerably more work than high school. Sure, the players that are just doing the bare minimum won't have much of a problem, but you start to hurt the players that chose the college route to get an education (and I actually mean an education, not just a degree).

 

[Goon]

Re: Save Uah Hockey!

Personally, I think it would be far more productive to try and legitimately understand what type of thinking the CCHA may have used and honestly address those points, rather than antagonizing the CCHA and quickly dismissing their reasoning because everybody's so optimistic and hopeful that everything would work out.

Again this is a college hockey message board pontificating and antagonizing is what people do on these boards, this is their very existence. There would be really no reason to be here if we couldn't.

The fact remains is, if your league commissioner had actually came out and explained why they rejected UAH's bid instead of giving a bunch of reasons that a five year old could have shot holes in, maybe just maybe we would be past this point. Again, on it's face the Bravo Sierra your league commish has shoveled has been, shall we say "weak." The reason for rejecting them are bush league. I hope next time a CCHA team needs to be a team to fill out its schedule I hope the other leagues remember this vote that took place last week. If I was an AD from say a WCHA school I might decline.

 

[Goon]

Re: Save Uah Hockey!

Maybe schools found out from experience that the additional bus trip put more strain on students than they would like to have. Personally, I don't think I'd be able to get much work done on a bus, not to mention that you're SOL if you need to work in a group or have internet access. You can get by having weekends like that every so often, but it's not the kind of thing I'd like to deal with more often than I had to as a student.

We have a little thing called airplanes in the WCHA and the distances weren't an issue to the CCHA when UNO was in the league. Actually UAH is probably a better fit geographically.

UM - UAH 651 miles
BGSU - UAH 585 miles
OSU - UAH 510 miles
MSU - UAH 672 miles
NMU - UAH 990 miles
ND - UAH 560 miles
LSSU - UAH 951 miles
NMU - UAH 657 miles
MU - UAH 442 miles
UAF - UAH 4137 miles
FSU - UAH 768 miles

Here is the distances from UNO to the various schools in the CCHA.

NMU - UNO 684 miles
UNO - MSU 672 miles
UNO - UM 692 miles
UNO - UMiami 707 miles
UNO - UAF 3270 miles
UNO - NMU 765 miles
UNO - FSU 684 Miles
UNO - ND 545 miles
UNO - OSU 781 miles
UNO - LSSU 903 miles
UNO - WMU 597 miles
UNO - BGSU 897 miles
[Goon's World]

 

[kdilks]

Re: Save Uah Hockey!

We have a little thing called airplanes in the WCHA and the distances weren't an issue to the CCHA when UNO was in the league. Actually UAH is probably a better fit geographically.

You must have missed the multiple times I've stated that just because teams in the CCHA have been making a long bus trip to UNO doesn't mean they'd necessarily want to "renew their contract" by signing up for a similar bus trip to UAH. But it's ok, I don't expect much in the way of reading comprehension from you.

BGSU begs to differ about long bus trips not being a problem (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh74WqVb4WI).

Good luck finding flights from Sault Ste. Marie or Marquette to Huntsville.

 

[4four4]

Re: Save Uah Hockey!

Yeah, a couple schools are. You realize the economy hasn't been doing well in CCHA country lately, right?

Absolutey CCHA country is really being hit hard by this recession.

In our neck of the woods many highschool teams sell out two to four thousand seats in a highschool arena. I wonder if our highschool arenas are on par with schools in the CCHA or ECHA? If it is no wonder CCHA team have a hard time consistently winning on a year in and year out basis.

 

[gfmorris]

Re: Save Uah Hockey!

Good luck finding flights from Sault Ste. Marie or Marquette to Huntsville.

Done it myself in 2002-3 when we played at Marquette. Huntsville-Memphis-Detroit-Marquette. Wasn't the greatest, but I got there in under 20 hours, unlike my friends who drove. Rode out on the same plane on Sunday with the CCHA refs.

GFM

 

[Spartanforlife4]

Re: Save Uah Hockey!

A bit of a reach here, but bus rides would be shorter to Huntsville than Omaha because of the lack of snowfall.

 

[fangers]

Re: Save Uah Hockey!

If you're trying to do more than just scrape by, college is also considerably more work than high school. Sure, the players that are just doing the bare minimum won't have much of a problem, but you start to hurt the players that chose the college route to get an education (and I actually mean an education, not just a degree).

yeah, ok, whatever you say....you are from Michigan, so what you say must be gospel...


But I will point out that by not having UAH in the league, each school is only saving ONE trip...yeah, that's really going to impact their education...

 

[leswp1]

Re: Save Uah Hockey!

Maybe schools found out from experience that the additional bus trip put more strain on students than they would like to have. Personally, I don't think I'd be able to get much work done on a bus, not to mention that you're SOL if you need to work in a group or have internet access. You can get by having weekends like that every so often, but it's not the kind of thing I'd like to deal with more often than I had to as a student.

My kid is 13 and plays hockey- not at an amazingly elite level but we travel every weekend. He figured out by second grade how to do homework in the car and to plan ahead. Last yr he was a 'group leader' in school (for pretty much the whole yr) and on more than one occassion had to run the groups while traveling. If he can do it then I think that a college level guy (who would have had years more experience at juggling)can, esp with internet being so accessable via phone and card.

Most of the college guys are out of commission for large amts of time for travel in every conference. If you want to use that argument then the Alaska players are either brilliant or are getting screwed for an education.

 

[mmf]

Re: Save Uah Hockey!

...Most of the college guys are out of commission for large amts of time for travel in every conference. If you want to use that argument then the Alaska players are either brilliant or are getting screwed for an education.

Travel is part of the game, and adversity is part of life. If it’s not one thing, it’s another. I never hear UAF teams complain about travel or hear it used as an excuse for on or off-ice troubles. And if they don’t…no one should.

Student-athletes at the UAF posted a cumulative 3.25 gpa for the 2008-09 academic year. I believe the hockey team carried a 3.4 gpa, and six were engineering majors. We’re not Harvard of the North, but respectable.

That "travel" dog does not hunt (sorry, that’s the only Alabama euphemism in my arsenal).