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RPI & Union @ Harvard & Dartmouth (2/12 & 2/13)
- Thread starter Ralph Baer
- Start date
UnionHockeyManiac
Union Hockey fan for life
Re: RPI & Union @ Harvard & Dartmouth (2/12 & 2/13)
I appreciate the points you make here, but I have to side with GLM here
eek: ). The fact that he cannot give out scholarships far outweighs the points you brought up. I'd say that he's at a major disadvantage in comparison to other ECAC schools. I am really impressed with what Nate has done with the team since I arrived at Union in 2006 and I hope he continues to improve. I am very happy to have him as our coach!
I appreciate the points you make here, but I have to side with GLM here
eek: ). The fact that he cannot give out scholarships far outweighs the points you brought up. I'd say that he's at a major disadvantage in comparison to other ECAC schools. I am really impressed with what Nate has done with the team since I arrived at Union in 2006 and I hope he continues to improve. I am very happy to have him as our coach!
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Re: RPI & Union @ Harvard & Dartmouth (2/12 & 2/13)
Mazzoleni's last three years were winning seasons with NCAA trips at the end of them. Donato's had 2 good seasons - his first two, with Mazzoleni's guys. Since then, Harvard's had 1 winning season, zero NCAA trips, and just completed its second year in a row without a non-conference win. At this point, they'd have to sweep the rest of the regular season and win the ECAC tournament to get back to a .500 records, so their next loss guarantees a 3rd losing season in the last 4 years.
Harvard fans should be praying to get Mazzoleni back.
Really? You think Harvard is a better hockey club today than it was in 2004?
Mazzoleni's last three years were winning seasons with NCAA trips at the end of them. Donato's had 2 good seasons - his first two, with Mazzoleni's guys. Since then, Harvard's had 1 winning season, zero NCAA trips, and just completed its second year in a row without a non-conference win. At this point, they'd have to sweep the rest of the regular season and win the ECAC tournament to get back to a .500 records, so their next loss guarantees a 3rd losing season in the last 4 years.
Harvard fans should be praying to get Mazzoleni back.
Re: RPI & Union @ Harvard & Dartmouth (2/12 & 2/13)
Nate Leaman is a great coach who has the respect of his players and of the Union community, but I too agree with UHM, having no scholarships really makes a difference in his and the other coaches recruitment efforts. Union does a great job meeting the financial aid needs of the students, in fact, they always meet full need, but not every player on our team gets money from the college. To me, it is so impressive that he can get those students to be a part of our program. And, for the record, Nate Leaman doesn't drive a beat up honda accord.
Nate Leaman is a great coach who has the respect of his players and of the Union community, but I too agree with UHM, having no scholarships really makes a difference in his and the other coaches recruitment efforts. Union does a great job meeting the financial aid needs of the students, in fact, they always meet full need, but not every player on our team gets money from the college. To me, it is so impressive that he can get those students to be a part of our program. And, for the record, Nate Leaman doesn't drive a beat up honda accord.
Re: RPI & Union @ Harvard & Dartmouth (2/12 & 2/13)
Don't disagree with you one bit. Though, one thing he has been able to do is offer playing time. A lot of the good talent he's brought in could probably play for more big-time schools, but usually get a lot of ice time here.
Don't disagree with you one bit. Though, one thing he has been able to do is offer playing time. A lot of the good talent he's brought in could probably play for more big-time schools, but usually get a lot of ice time here.
Re: RPI & Union @ Harvard & Dartmouth (2/12 & 2/13)
UnionHockeyManiac, Greatlaker ect.
You all right about the Advantage idea. The word's a little strong for this argument. However, I will still point out that using the already mentioned tactics for recruiting Union is able to compete with the IVY's and the scholarship schools in the ECAC.
Also keep in mind that the scholarship schools are limited to 18 full scholarships and most rosters contain 24-26 players on them. Not all players are given the full ride. However the players that are given partial cash are then not allowed to apply for financial aid. My guess is that there are a number of players at the scholarship schools that are paying more than the Union players without the scholarships. Union has found a way to hunt down the players that will qualify for large amounts of aid and still get the 50 grand education from a great academic school.
I'm not knocking Coach Leaman, in fact I've been very impressed. The single toughest task of a coach taking a job at a school with a tradition of losing is changing that into a tradition of winning. First off you need to figure out a way and pool of kids that you can recruit and then sell to them they can have success in that program. That is a tough nut to crack and many a college coach in all kinds of sports are unable to pull it off. The great thing about Union and Coach Leaman's recent success is that many more doors will be opened by families and players that would have politely said no thanks in the past.
Lynah,
Sorry to disagree, but Coach Mazz. was simply just an awful fit at Harvard. Teddy has been great for the program and great for the players. Like I said in an earlier post. The difference between 3rd and 9th is a couple of players and a little luck doesn't hurt.
UnionHockeyManiac, Greatlaker ect.
You all right about the Advantage idea. The word's a little strong for this argument. However, I will still point out that using the already mentioned tactics for recruiting Union is able to compete with the IVY's and the scholarship schools in the ECAC.
Also keep in mind that the scholarship schools are limited to 18 full scholarships and most rosters contain 24-26 players on them. Not all players are given the full ride. However the players that are given partial cash are then not allowed to apply for financial aid. My guess is that there are a number of players at the scholarship schools that are paying more than the Union players without the scholarships. Union has found a way to hunt down the players that will qualify for large amounts of aid and still get the 50 grand education from a great academic school.
I'm not knocking Coach Leaman, in fact I've been very impressed. The single toughest task of a coach taking a job at a school with a tradition of losing is changing that into a tradition of winning. First off you need to figure out a way and pool of kids that you can recruit and then sell to them they can have success in that program. That is a tough nut to crack and many a college coach in all kinds of sports are unable to pull it off. The great thing about Union and Coach Leaman's recent success is that many more doors will be opened by families and players that would have politely said no thanks in the past.
Lynah,
Sorry to disagree, but Coach Mazz. was simply just an awful fit at Harvard. Teddy has been great for the program and great for the players. Like I said in an earlier post. The difference between 3rd and 9th is a couple of players and a little luck doesn't hurt.
Re: RPI & Union @ Harvard & Dartmouth (2/12 & 2/13)
I know this has gone slightly off topic for which I apologize, but I think its a good discussion. I've heard that the Ivies often get around their non athletic scholarship policy by giving their kids big loan packages which with a wink are then "forgiven" when they graduate. Is this fact, fiction or perhaps something in between?
Ralph Baer
Let's Go 'Tute!
Re: RPI & Union @ Harvard & Dartmouth (2/12 & 2/13)
The key is that the athletes are getting money that others can apply for also, and they don't (at lest overtly
) have a competitive advantage.
There are a lot of other ways to give financial aid besides for athletic scholarships. To the best of my knowledge, what Union does with foreign students would also be legal elsewhere. So long as an athlete doesn't have an advantage it is legal. RPI has hockey players receiving minority student funds. That type of aid is available to any minority student, so it is OK in the eyes of the NCAA for athletes to compete for it also.
The key is that the athletes are getting money that others can apply for also, and they don't (at lest overtly
) have a competitive advantage.Wicked Slappaahs
I miss Tie Domi
Re: RPI & Union @ Harvard & Dartmouth (2/12 & 2/13)
You mean Momma's gotta pawn her Escalade ????
You mean Momma's gotta pawn her Escalade ????
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: RPI & Union @ Harvard & Dartmouth (2/12 & 2/13)
I thought she did that 4.5 years ago and now has an Audi.
Oh wait, wrong Momma.
You mean Momma's gotta pawn her Escalade ????
I thought she did that 4.5 years ago and now has an Audi.
Oh wait, wrong Momma.Wicked Slappaahs
I miss Tie Domi
Re: RPI & Union @ Harvard & Dartmouth (2/12 & 2/13)
Baby Momma ??
I thought she did that 4.5 years ago and now has an Audi.
Baby Momma ??
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: RPI & Union @ Harvard & Dartmouth (2/12 & 2/13)
This post reminds me of the movie "Blue Chips". I know it's about bouncyball, but the whole storyline reminds me a bit of what you're talking about.
This post reminds me of the movie "Blue Chips". I know it's about bouncyball, but the whole storyline reminds me a bit of what you're talking about.
Re: RPI & Union @ Harvard & Dartmouth (2/12 & 2/13)
I will agree that Union does have a certain advantage not having scholarships in that they don't get burned as bad if a recruit does not work out. They can mostly just go out and bring in someone else instead of having to hope that a player gives up their scholarship.
And since when can't the Ivies bring in older kids?? Looks like Yale & Brown will have a couple of 20-year old freshmen next year.
Actually I thought that Harvard (and maybe Yale?) gave free rides to any student whose parents were under certain income levels. Bottom line is that the big endowment Ivies have a lot more ways to get cash to incoming athletes than Union does IF they choose to do so.
I will agree that Union does have a certain advantage not having scholarships in that they don't get burned as bad if a recruit does not work out. They can mostly just go out and bring in someone else instead of having to hope that a player gives up their scholarship.
And since when can't the Ivies bring in older kids?? Looks like Yale & Brown will have a couple of 20-year old freshmen next year.
hockeymascot
New member
Re: RPI & Union @ Harvard & Dartmouth (2/12 & 2/13)
Ok Slappy. Nate and his coaching staff just have to identify players who qualify for large amounts of financial aid, oh and by the way, they have to qualify for admissions, oh and I almost forgot, they have to be able to compete at the Division One college hockey level.....sounds pretty simple to me!
...and how would you know they fit that category?
Ok Slappy. Nate and his coaching staff just have to identify players who qualify for large amounts of financial aid, oh and by the way, they have to qualify for admissions, oh and I almost forgot, they have to be able to compete at the Division One college hockey level.....sounds pretty simple to me!
...and how would you know they fit that category?
Wicked Slappaahs
I miss Tie Domi
Re: RPI & Union @ Harvard & Dartmouth (2/12 & 2/13)
They've also failed to mention coach's salary at Harvard vs. Union...I've gotta think the package at H is double U's if not more...
Ok Slappy. Nate and his coaching staff just have to identify players who qualify for large amounts of financial aid, oh and by the way, they have to qualify for admissions, oh and I almost forgot, they have to be able to compete at the Division One college hockey level.....sounds pretty simple to me!
...and how would you know they fit that category?
They've also failed to mention coach's salary at Harvard vs. Union...I've gotta think the package at H is double U's if not more...
DisplacedCornellian
Let's Go Red!
Re: RPI & Union @ Harvard & Dartmouth (2/12 & 2/13)
Teddy's record through his first 5 complete seasons: 82-68-17, 1 ECAC title, 1 NCAA appearance.
Mazzoleni's record through his 5 seasons: 82-72-13, 2 ECAC titles, 3 NCAA appearances.
That's some turn around.
Teddy's record through his first 5 complete seasons: 82-68-17, 1 ECAC title, 1 NCAA appearance.
Mazzoleni's record through his 5 seasons: 82-72-13, 2 ECAC titles, 3 NCAA appearances.
That's some turn around.
Re: RPI & Union @ Harvard & Dartmouth (2/12 & 2/13)
Teddy's an alum. You have to account for grade inflation.
Teddy's record through his first 5 complete seasons: 82-68-17, 1 ECAC title, 1 NCAA appearance.
Mazzoleni's record through his 5 seasons: 82-72-13, 2 ECAC titles, 3 NCAA appearances.
That's some turn around.
Teddy's an alum. You have to account for grade inflation.
Re: RPI & Union @ Harvard & Dartmouth (2/12 & 2/13)
You couldn't be more wrong. You need to peel back the onion and look way beyond W-L records to understand what fully went on during the Mazz regime.
Harvard isn't BU who has proven that they are willing to sacrifice anything to win (Chris Bourque immediately coming to mind).
You couldn't be more wrong. You need to peel back the onion and look way beyond W-L records to understand what fully went on during the Mazz regime.
Harvard isn't BU who has proven that they are willing to sacrifice anything to win (Chris Bourque immediately coming to mind).
Re: RPI & Union @ Harvard & Dartmouth (2/12 & 2/13)
I think what Nate Leaman has been able to do at Union is one of the more exceptional coaching performances in the ECAC over the last few decades. Giving what he has to work with coupled with what he is up against - Wow is all I can say!
I think what Nate Leaman has been able to do at Union is one of the more exceptional coaching performances in the ECAC over the last few decades. Giving what he has to work with coupled with what he is up against - Wow is all I can say!
Re: RPI & Union @ Harvard & Dartmouth (2/12 & 2/13)
Not even close. Harvard is notorious for having some of the lowest paying head coaching salaries around. I bet Donato makes less than Leaman
Not even close. Harvard is notorious for having some of the lowest paying head coaching salaries around. I bet Donato makes less than Leaman