RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

UVM is an interesting example. They have had a tough road in Hockey East, but look at the results. In 2008 they played in the HE tourney finals. They made the Frozen Four in 2009 despite only finishing tied for 3rd in the regular season, and getting knocked out of the HE quarterfinals. I have to think that running the HE gauntlet prepared them well for making that tourney run.

Terrific point. Plus, weren't they middle-of-the-pack ECAC when they made the jump? They still also play a number of their NC games with ECAC teams as well (typically schedule SLU and Dartmouth every year, obviously we played them in Quebec a few years ago plus we were invited to the Catamount Cup if I recall correctly), so there's no reason we can't.

I'd say if there's an opportunity for the bigger and better, let's go for it. Admissions will present itself whether we are in Hockey East, ECAC, even if somehow we made it into the BHHC.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Terrific point. Plus, weren't they middle-of-the-pack ECAC when they made the jump? They still also play a number of their NC games with ECAC teams as well (typically schedule SLU and Dartmouth every year, obviously we played them in Quebec a few years ago plus we were invited to the Catamount Cup if I recall correctly), so there's no reason we can't.

I'd say if there's an opportunity for the bigger and better, let's go for it. Admissions will present itself whether we are in Hockey East, ECAC, even if somehow we made it into the BHHC.

I have often wondered how a connection to the Ivies in hockey improves the preception of RPI's academics in anyone's eyes. Are any potential freshmen or their parents influenced by this? Does the NSF look at a proposal by an RPI Prof and give points because we play 6 Ivies in hockey?

 

[Timmah!]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

I have often wondered how a connection to the Ivies in hockey improves the preception of RPI's academics in anyone's eyes. Are any potential freshmen or their parents influenced by this? Does the NSF look at a proposal by an RPI Prof and give points because we play 6 Ivies in hockey?

I think it may have a reasonable influence on potential non-player students. When I went on the campus tour way back when, we walked by the Field House and I was told, "This is the home of our hockey team. We've won two national titles......our team plays in the ECAC conference along with Harvard, Cornell, and Yale." Ivy by association. At the time I was a college hockey neophyte, and I remember that this did resonate with me. I thought it was kind of cool that we regularly played the Ivies, and if we did, it must mean that institutionally we are similar. I'm sure that RPI still mentions this factoid on campus tours, and waves the article calling RPI one of the New Ivies. As for its bearing on NSF grants....I guess that depends on if the reviewers are hockey fans.

 

[Senna]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Folks who think entering HE would be slam dunk move need to think long and hard about how they'd feel about the possibility of being middle of the pack in a league that is absolutely stacked with talent.

Does joining HE mean that the RPI Admissions Dept. is suddenly going to find religion and start admitting marginal kids? If not, then the RPI faithful best be prepared for several years of tough sledding in a very tough league. I guarantee you there are kids getting admitted to UNH, Maine, UVM and other HE schools that have zero shot of getting into RPI.

Take a hard look at UVM -- some excellent recruiting classes, favorable admissions, beautiful campus -- but they are still slugging it out in HE. Sneddon's record at UVM the last two seasons: 25-35-15.

As long as folks are considering this reality, then press on if you must.

I am just getting to the boards since Firday so sorry for the later reply on this.....

I think that you are absolutely right, BUT this could be the time to make the move. All that has been posted over the past couple years is how we want to get back to NCAA tournaments and how the strength of our OOC games helped us. I also remember all of the discussion last year about just packing it in and going to HE because we all felt like we were getting screwed during the regular season. We may need this if we want the program to get better, have access to an even greater level of talent, and eventually be able to progress further in the NCAA tournament (if we even get there). You describe the downsides quite well - are we at risk of being just a midtier team in this league, will the recruiting be just as difficult given the academic standards and possibly the view of the recruit to go to a BC rather than us given that we are in the same league, etc. My 2 cents are that if we do end up finding ourselves in this "new world" should all of this realignment happen, that we would likely be behind the 8 ball in trying to build a national championship caliber team if we dont move - so I say, if the option comes, lets be prepared and make the move without hesitation. Again, just my view....

 

[Senna]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

I think it may have a reasonable influence on potential non-player students. When I went on the campus tour way back when, we walked by the Field House and I was told, "This is the home of our hockey team. We've won two national titles......our team plays in the ECAC conference along with Harvard, Cornell, and Yale." Ivy by association. At the time I was a college hockey neophyte, and I remember that this did resonate with me. I thought it was kind of cool that we regularly played the Ivies, and if we did, it must mean that institutionally we are similar. I'm sure that RPI still mentions this factoid on campus tours, and waves the article calling RPI one of the New Ivies. As for its bearing on NSF grants....I guess that depends on if the reviewers are hockey fans.

I grew up in Rensselaer County and used to go to RPI games all the time as a kid and remember it resonating with me then that we were playing BU and BC. My son starts there this year as a freshmen, and the attachment to the Ivys had absolutely no bearing or consideration in his decision. I just dont think that it matters as much as one might think. If a kid wants to go to an Ivy, he'll go to an Ivy. If a kid wants a world class technical education, he considers going to RPI irrespective of who we play in hockey.

 

[Timmah!]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

I grew up in Rensselaer County and used to go to RPI games all the time as a kid and remember it resonating with me then that we were playing BU and BC. My son starts there this year as a freshmen, and the attachment to the Ivys had absolutely no bearing or consideration in his decision. I just dont think that it matters as much as one might think. If a kid wants to go to an Ivy, he'll go to an Ivy. If a kid wants a world class technical education, he considers going to RPI irrespective of who we play in hockey.

I see your point. Obviously a lot goes into any college decision. I thought the Ivy league ties in hockey were cool, but they certainly were not make or break in my decision to attend RPI. It merely created the illusion of institutional alignment with the Ivies that contributed to my overall impression of the school. It may not have been a factor for you personally, but it is a factor for some. If, when I toured, we were in Hockey East, I would have been excited that we were in conference with some of the heavy hitters in college hockey. It would have had a similar positive effect to the Ivy affiliation in my decision. Most importantly, I wanted to go to a school that provided outlets to top tier college sports in addition to the world class technical education that was my baseline requirement.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Who's to say Hockey East wants to expand at all?

Hockey East.

 

[Senna]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

I see your point. Obviously a lot goes into any college decision. I thought the Ivy league ties in hockey were cool, but they certainly were not make or break in my decision to attend RPI. It merely created the illusion of institutional alignment with the Ivies that contributed to my overall impression of the school. It may not have been a factor for you personally, but it is a factor for some. If, when I toured, we were in Hockey East, I would have been excited that we were in conference with some of the heavy hitters in college hockey. It would have had a similar positive effect to the Ivy affiliation in my decision. Most importantly, I wanted to go to a school that provided outlets to top tier college sports in addition to the world class technical education that was my baseline requirement.

Very well said and I think that we are in violent agreement.

 

[Timmah!]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Very well said and I think that we are in violent agreement.

Indeed.

 

[Senna]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Indeed.

So - that would mean that we should have been be considering / pursuing a move to HE all along....and we should use all that is transpiring around the rest of college hockey with realignment as a conduit to seriously reopen that discussion and move. I just dont see us being able to acheive the objectives which have been set forth and discussed if we stay. I thnk that the level of talent will become more concentrated making those objectives that much more difficult to acheive, and if we dont place the program in that concentrated environment, then we will never be able to seriously compete at the level we say we want. Look - I'll always follow the program, regardless. But here we are, on the precipice. We have the right coach, the right AD. The program has made massive strides. I wish my kid could be part of this program - I just think its that special. Maybe my thought process is flawed, but its a now or never ever ever for us to a.) move, and b.) become the top tier team that we have the potential to become.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

FWIW, I intend to watch PK at the Caps' rookie camp tomorrow. I didn't want to go today because I did not know if he was going to skate with Group A or Group B, but now that info is public http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...elopment-camp/2011/07/11/gIQACWro8H_blog.html.

 

[Timmah!]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

So - that would mean that we should have been be considering / pursuing a move to HE all along....and we should use all that is transpiring around the rest of college hockey with realignment as a conduit to seriously reopen that discussion and move. I just dont see us being able to acheive the objectives which have been set forth and discussed if we stay. I thnk that the level of talent will become more concentrated making those objectives that much more difficult to acheive, and if we dont place the program in that concentrated environment, then we will never be able to seriously compete at the level we say we want. Look - I'll always follow the program, regardless. But here we are, on the precipice. We have the right coach, the right AD. The program has made massive strides. I wish my kid could be part of this program - I just think its that special. Maybe my thought process is flawed, but its a now or never ever ever for us to a.) move, and b.) become the top tier team that we have the potential to become.

Senna, completely agree. We will definitely be at the precipice if there is any opportunity for us to make the switch to Hockey East.

For those that lived through it, please correct me if I am wrong, but it strikes me that the original HE/ECAC split was quite a bit different than the decision that could be ahead of us now. The ECAC was one huge conference, and there were power teams on either side of the split. At the time, who was to say that HE would become one of the top conferences in the league, and the ECAC would become a mid-major. It seems as if there was a lot more appeal to maintaining our conference ties, and making a go of it. Afterall, we were still at the top of the game, AND could maintain our Ivy ties while doing it.

Today, we are on the opposite side of things. We know that we are in a weaker, less competitive conference, and that that is unlikely to ever change. If HE extends us the invitation to join their conference, and we are serious about the growth of our program, why would we refuse? Holding on to the Ivy ties might make admins happy, but at the expense of us being truly competitive. If the chasm between haves and have-nots grows, and success from conference positioning truly becomes the modus operandi of college hockey, then the ECAC will become a sinking ship in no time. Better to be proactive now, than left behind later.

 

[fr joe]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Am just catching up with all the alignment/right conference/best fit talk... I'm finding there's much to be said for a long , hard look at Hockey East. It's time! And realigment will mean that the chasm between the stronger and weaker leagues will only widen. Where do we want to be when the landscape shifts?
But for BRO watchers, courtesy YouTube & Fear the Tringle (UMass hockey)... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkvbwo8a8Zc

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Today is 12 July 2011. There are 81 days until RPI's next game.


This is based upon 1 October for the start of next season.

 

[rpi82]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

For all the talk about HE in this thread, is there any evidence that they will even consider adding a D-III school to the roster at this point? I think many in that league already consider their two D-II schools (UM-L and Merrimack) to be boat anchors. If the sky is truly falling and college hockey will consolidate in the hands of the big players, why would they look to add another small school? I think many are over-reacting as I don't believe the Ivies are ready to abandon us nor do I think HE is ready to take us with open arms. We are actually in the most stable league in the country, and while it is not churning out national championship contenders it still provides a good level of hockey and is a very good fit for our school and program.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

For all the talk about HE in this thread, is there any evidence that they will even consider adding a D-III school to the roster at this point? I think many in that league already consider their two D-II schools (UM-L and Merrimack) to be boat anchors. If the sky is truly falling and college hockey will consolidate in the hands of the big players, why would they look to add another small school? I think many are over-reacting as I don't believe the Ivies are ready to abandon us nor do I think HE is ready to take us with open arms. We are actually in the most stable league in the country, and while it is not churning out national championship contenders it still provides a good level of hockey and is a very good fit for our school and program.

Why is the BHHC adding a D-III school to their roster?

 

[Senna]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

For all the talk about HE in this thread, is there any evidence that they will even consider adding a D-III school to the roster at this point? I think many in that league already consider their two D-II schools (UM-L and Merrimack) to be boat anchors. If the sky is truly falling and college hockey will consolidate in the hands of the big players, why would they look to add another small school? I think many are over-reacting as I don't believe the Ivies are ready to abandon us nor do I think HE is ready to take us with open arms. We are actually in the most stable league in the country, and while it is not churning out national championship contenders it still provides a good level of hockey and is a very good fit for our school and program.

I also dont think that the Ivys are ready to abandon us and wasnt addressing the question of whether HE wanted us....The league is going to absolutely do what is in their best interest and we may have an opportunity and I just want us to have considered deeply and be ready to move immediately as the opportunity could come and go in a heartbeat. We do have some history with the HE teams, but that is principally from a while back. I would think that HE is considering all their options and I think would want ND, and if that happens potentially look to add 1 more. We may have opportunity present itself not because they are looking at us with open arms, but rather looking at ND that way.

 

[rpi82]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

The BHHC absolutely needs Colorado College to form even a small league. Does HE have a desperate need to add a D-III school? Besides, I hate to say it but the CC program is not viewed similarly to us in the grand scheme of college hockey. They are one of the top 5 drawing programs in the entire nation and have played in the NCAAs frequently in the last two decades. They also provide a reasonably close neighbor for Denver to help with travel costs.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

The BHHC absolutely needs Colorado College to form even a small league. Does HE have a desperate need to add a D-III school? Besides, I hate to say it but the CC program is not viewed similarly to us in the grand scheme of college hockey. They are one of the top 5 drawing programs in the entire nation and have played in the NCAAs frequently in the last two decades. They also provide a reasonably close neighbor for Denver to help with travel costs.

 

[Timmah!]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

For all the talk about HE in this thread, is there any evidence that they will even consider adding a D-III school to the roster at this point? I think many in that league already consider their two D-II schools (UM-L and Merrimack) to be boat anchors. If the sky is truly falling and college hockey will consolidate in the hands of the big players, why would they look to add another small school? I think many are over-reacting as I don't believe the Ivies are ready to abandon us nor do I think HE is ready to take us with open arms. We are actually in the most stable league in the country, and while it is not churning out national championship contenders it still provides a good level of hockey and is a very good fit for our school and program.

I have to agree with Senna yet again, the Ivies have very little incentive to abandon anyone at this point, so I am not terribly worried about being stuck with some Liberty League abomination. I am, however, concerned that the conference power brokering going on is going to create a rift so vast that ECAC teams will rarely get a sniff of tourney success.

As for HE accepting us, again, their perogative. If Notre Dame joins HE, chances are good that HE will be looking for a 12th team. Who do they pick? Miami is off the table. Schools like WMU and BGSU have D1 programs, but don't carry nearly enough weight (in my opinion) to warrant looking so far out of the geographic envelope. Looking eastward...I don't see anyone in Atlantic Hockey having the facilities or commitment to hockey to warrant a spot in HE (UConn included). In ECAC, there are two that make sense to me, RPI and Q. Q has the commitment to hockey, and extends the HE footprint to CT. Unfortunately, their arena, however beautiful it is, would be one of the smallest in HE next to PC and Merrimack, and they have limited history, with moderate success.

RPI has the commitment to hockey, recent resurgence in the national scene (which seems to be carrying some weight right now (see WMU)), the largest eastern arena outside of HE, not to mention close proximity to UMass/UVM, and a common history/rival tradition with many of Hockey East's members going back to the early days of the ECAC. You can choose to look at RPI as an undesirable D3 school, but when you compare it with the other choices available, I would think that if we put our best foot forward, that we would at least get a serious look.

The ECAC is a stable league, frankly, so is Hockey East. If we make a play for Hockey East, we will always have the ECAC to fall back on. It's a win-win for us.

Then again, Hockey East could be cloning Terry Pegula to find a way to fund Syracuse's new team....only time will tell.