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RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

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Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Timmah! said:
Then again, Hockey East could be cloning Terry Pegula to find a way to fund Syracuse's new team....only time will tell.
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I haven't heard anything about rich alumni funding out here. However, I do know that they had to drop swimming and diving, and there is a rumor that they will be replacing the natatorium. Will they replace it with a hockey rink? I'm not sure, but I don't think they would unless SU were serious about moving a men's team up to varsity. As small as Tennilly Ice Pavillion is, it's actually a halfway decent location for a women's team. It does remind me of Northford, though (for those that remember Q-Pac's old location), with exception being that it is on the campus.
 
Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Timmah! said:
I am, however, concerned that the conference power brokering going on is going to create a rift so vast that ECAC teams will rarely get a sniff of tourney success.
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In a couple years when the new conferences start up the days of seeing 3 maybe 4 ECAC teams in the NCAA's will be over and you will be lucky to get 2 in. With the possibility of having 7 conferences, if the CCHA can survive, that will only leave 9 at-large spots and guess who those 9 spots are going to...the schools that play in the power conferences such as B10, unnamed conf., HEA and maybe the WCHA. Also if some schools close up shop there is the chance the tournament will drop back to 12 teams and then you will almost certainly see only 1 ECAC team in the tournament.
 
Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

some tid-bits on teams staying/leaving by Julie Robenhymer at hockeybuzz.com Also, some developments in the Super League Saga:

- BC and BU were invited to join, but declined and are sticking with Hockey East.
- It appears Northern Michigan and Alaska will leave the CCHA and join the remaining members of the WCHA.
- It also appears Western Michigan and Notre Dame are somehow a package deal or at least they're trying to be since they are so close to each other and would make for convenient travel. We'll see how that works out, but while Notre Dame is taking their time weighing options between Hockey East and the Super League, Western is being aggressive about finding a new, competitive conference to join.
- It would be interesting to see if Lake State, Ferris State, Bowling Green recruit Alabama-Huntsville and some of the AHA schools like Mercyhurst, Robert Morris, and RIT to keep their conference alive. Just a thought!
 
Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

turk181 said:
- It also appears Western Michigan and Notre Dame are somehow a package deal or at least they're trying to be since they are so close to each other and would make for convenient travel. We'll see how that works out, but while Notre Dame is taking their time weighing options between Hockey East and the Super League, Western is being aggressive about finding a new, competitive conference to join.
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I'm not sure I buy that. WMU brings nothing attractive for Hockey East. Superconference might want them, since someone has to be the doormat.


- It would be interesting to see if Lake State, Ferris State, Bowling Green recruit Alabama-Huntsville and some of the AHA schools like Mercyhurst, Robert Morris, and RIT to keep their conference alive. Just a thought!
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Wodon says RMU, Niagara, Mercyhurst, and Canisius are looking pretty hard at the CCHA.

In other news... I'm laughing myself silly watching the bedwetters shift their focus from Appert to Hockey East. Seriously, it's like this place isn't normal unless someone's whining about something.
 
Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

FlagDUDE08 said:
I haven't heard anything about rich alumni funding out here. However, I do know that they had to drop swimming and diving, and there is a rumor that they will be replacing the natatorium. Will they replace it with a hockey rink? I'm not sure, but I don't think they would unless SU were serious about moving a men's team up to varsity. As small as Tennilly Ice Pavillion is, it's actually a halfway decent location for a women's team. It does remind me of Northford, though (for those that remember Q-Pac's old location), with exception being that it is on the campus.
Click to expand...

As much as I would love to see 'Cuse, URI, Navy, and all of the other long-rumored schools make the jump to D1....I'm not going to hold my breath. The Pegula crack was mostly tongue in cheek....
 
Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Timmah! said:
As much as I would love to see 'Cuse, URI, Navy, and all of the other long-rumored schools make the jump to D1....I'm not going to hold my breath. The Pegula crack was mostly tongue in cheek....
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I quite figured it was, but given their ascension of a women's team recently, perhaps there were some ideas floating around.
 
Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

FlagDUDE08 said:
I quite figured it was, but given their ascension of a women's team recently, perhaps there were some ideas floating around.
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I'm of the understanding that Syracuse would need to work out some Title IX issues if they wanted a men's varsity hockey team.
 
Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

JCrawford said:
I'm of the understanding that Syracuse would need to work out some Title IX issues if they wanted a men's varsity hockey team.
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Sounds about right, given they had to dump swimming and diving in order to be compliant.
 
Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Red Cloud said:
In other news... I'm laughing myself silly watching the bedwetters shift their focus from Appert to Hockey East.
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Maybe what I have written has come across incorrectly - I think one of the principal reasons that a shift to HE makes sense for us and we can succeed at is precisely because of Appert and Knowlton. We have some fantastic recruits, and as Knowlton has always told me, they are looking for the "right" kids. I think we have that and I think that we would have the ability to compete for talent from a larger pool if we sat in HE. My view is that we have al the right pieces in place to really compete at the very highest levels, and SA aand JK have been there before. Lets give them the tools to really and truly go after a national championship - and I again think that belonging to HE and its level of competition is nothing but a benefit.
 
Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

That was interesting. I watched PK at the Caps' rookies camp. He definitely did not look out of place and appeared to be better than most of the d-men there.

I saw someone wearing an RPI shirt and figured it was another alum. It turned out to be PK's father.

Goinng to a cold rink when the temperature is in the upper 90's is a great idea. :D
 
Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Senna said:
Maybe what I have written has come across incorrectly - I think one of the principal reasons that a shift to HE makes sense for us and we can succeed at is precisely because of Appert and Knowlton.
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I totally agree with this statement - the latter part, anyway. I wasn't directing that previous comment toward you.
 
Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Ralph Baer said:
That was interesting. I watched PK at the Caps' rookies camp. He definitely did not look out of place and appeared to be better than most of the d-men there.

I saw someone wearing an RPI shirt and figured it was another alum. It turned out to be PK's father.

Goinng to a cold rink when the temperature is in the upper 90's is a great idea. :D
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Why did I think you were watching Pat Cullen... -_-
 
Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Hey, how come marty74 never posts anymore?

Oh, that's right, it's because he's a Cornell fan.
 
Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Timmah! said:
I have to agree with Senna yet again, the Ivies have very little incentive to abandon anyone at this point, so I am not terribly worried about being stuck with some Liberty League abomination. I am, however, concerned that the conference power brokering going on is going to create a rift so vast that ECAC teams will rarely get a sniff of tourney success.

As for HE accepting us, again, their perogative. If Notre Dame joins HE, chances are good that HE will be looking for a 12th team. Who do they pick? Miami is off the table. Schools like WMU and BGSU have D1 programs, but don't carry nearly enough weight (in my opinion) to warrant looking so far out of the geographic envelope. Looking eastward...I don't see anyone in Atlantic Hockey having the facilities or commitment to hockey to warrant a spot in HE (UConn included). In ECAC, there are two that make sense to me, RPI and Q. Q has the commitment to hockey, and extends the HE footprint to CT. Unfortunately, their arena, however beautiful it is, would be one of the smallest in HE next to PC and Merrimack, and they have limited history, with moderate success.

RPI has the commitment to hockey, recent resurgence in the national scene (which seems to be carrying some weight right now (see WMU)), the largest eastern arena outside of HE, not to mention close proximity to UMass/UVM, and a common history/rival tradition with many of Hockey East's members going back to the early days of the ECAC. You can choose to look at RPI as an undesirable D3 school, but when you compare it with the other choices available, I would think that if we put our best foot forward, that we would at least get a serious look.

The ECAC is a stable league, frankly, so is Hockey East. If we make a play for Hockey East, we will always have the ECAC to fall back on. It's a win-win for us.

Then again, Hockey East could be cloning Terry Pegula to find a way to fund Syracuse's new team....only time will tell.
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I didn't say we were an undesirable D-III school. I think we are a very desirable D-III school. However, in an era where everyone seems to be panicking about the big boys taking over, it's logically inconsistent to then say the only other stable league (albeit one that was targeted by the supposed Super League trying to pluck off its two leading members) will respond by adding a small school because of some perceived need. Of course they'll take ND if available, what league wouldn't be seduced by the Irish' marketing propaganda, but I don't see how that suddenly incents them to take on anyone else just because it is the best of the remaining options. This is not football where you need 12 to have a championship game. Nor does HE have a Fri/Sat travel partner system - it's unnecessary when 8/10 of your members are located within 80 miles of Boston. They went for many years with 9 members and I see no reason why they couldn't go many more with 11. The only problem a twelfth member would solve involves travel costs, and we do not help in that regard (nor does QU).

The sky is not falling. RPI is well-positioned for success within its league and that will present opportunities to show itself on a national stage. There's no need to over-react to every event and spend hours speculating without any basis in fact or reality.
 
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Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

rpi82 said:
I didn't say we were an undesirable D-III school. I think we are a very desirable D-III school. However, in an era where everyone seems to be panicking about the big boys taking over, it's logically inconsistent to then say the only other stable league (albeit one that was targeted by the supposed Super League trying to pluck off its two leading members) will respond by adding a small school because of some perceived need. Of course they'll take ND if available, what league wouldn't be seduced by the Irish' marketing propaganda, but I don't see how that suddenly incents them to take on anyone else just because it is the best of the remaining options. This is not football where you need 12 to have a championship game. Nor does HE have a Fri/Sat travel partner system - it's unnecessary when 8/10 of your members are located within 80 miles of Boston. They went for many years with 9 members and I see no reason why they couldn't go many more with 11. The only problem a twelfth member would solve involves travel costs, and we do not help in that regard (nor does QU).

The sky is not falling. RPI is well-positioned for success within its league and that will present opportunities to show itself on a national stage. There's no need to over-react to every event and spend hours speculating without any basis in fact or reality.
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These are all fine points you make. Hockey East could certainly function with 11 teams. My point was that if they look to go to 12 teams, we would be a natural fit.

As for the sky falling, I am not worried about the imminent doom of RPI hockey. I am convinced that RPI could stay in the ECAC through this whole mess and still maintain their program for years to come. RPI is positioned well to succeed in the ECAC, but based on what is happening everywhere else, that might not be worth as much as it used to. (frankly, it's not worth very much now from an NCAA tourney perspective...) To redhead18's point, creating numerous small superleagues puts us further down the totem pole. The opportunities to appear on the national stage will be far more limited. Fewer opportunities don't necessarily prevent success, but certainly hurt us in the long run.

Hockey East may not have much incentive to expand to 12 teams, but if ND makes the move to join HE, RPI should be one of the first in line inquiring about a spot. That's not over-reaction, it's opportunistic self improvement.
 
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Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Timmah! said:
These are all fine points you make. Hockey East could certainly function with 11 teams. My point was that if they look to go to 12 teams, we would be a natural fit.

As for the sky falling, I am not worried about the imminent doom of RPI hockey. I am convinced that RPI could stay in the ECAC through this whole mess and still maintain their program for years to come. RPI is positioned well to succeed in the ECAC, but based on what is happening everywhere else, that might not be worth as much as it used to. (frankly, it's not worth very much now from an NCAA tourney perspective...) To redhead18's point, creating numerous small superleagues puts us further down the totem pole. The opportunities to appear on the national stage will be far more limited. Fewer opportunities don't necessarily prevent success, but certainly hurt us in the long run.

Hockey East may not have much incentive to expand to 12 teams, but if ND makes the move to join HE, RPI should be one of the first in line inquiring about a spot. That's not over-reaction, it's opportunistic self improvement.
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I get it, although I don't see a batch of tiny leagues being sustained into the future. One of the things that killed the CHA was the unattractiveness of being in a 5 or 6 team league where you keep seeing the same opponents far too often. Even the Big 10, with its over-glorified opinion of itself, may ultimately find that out and either add teams or utilize a scheduling alliance to accomplish the same goal.

If the good colonel or Seth feel it is in our best interests to quietly inquire about HE plans beyond next year that's fine with me. However, I'm not convinced that is our best path as we have more in common and are likely to be more competitive with our current league mates. More importantly, I don't want to sell ourselves for something that probably won't happen for reasons I've stated previously.

We certainly have a role model for how not to do it. While everyone was sure last year that NCAA football was going to undergo massive upheaval that really never came about, there was one sure loser - Missouri. They sold their souls for an invitation to the Big 10 (even having the governor publicly pitching for it) that never happened. They came across as unrealistic, opportunistic fools and ended up crawling with their tiger tails between their legs back to the Big 12. They will be a pariah in that league for a generation or more. I don't want to hear one word about HE from anyone at RPI, not even a well-sourced rumor of interest, unless the thing is virtually in the can. Then we can disagree whether it was the right thing to do, but at least it will be cast in stone.

In the meantime much of this thread (not necessarily your comments) comes across as a bit desperate and I really don't see why that is necessary. Our future hasn't been this bright for over a decade and I'm looking forward to seeing the Cherry and Red near the top of the ECAC standings for years to come.
 
Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Just throwing this out there since Ive seen it floating around on a couple different blogs but what if Notre Dame is in the process of forming their own 6-7 team "super league" inviting WMU and 4-5 of the powerful Hockey East teams? BC and BU already said no to an invite to join the western super league but could there be a eastern super league on the way? Would RPI want to be in Hockey East without the usual power house teams?
 
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