RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Today is 9 July 2011. There are 84 days (12 weeks) until RPI's next game.


This is based upon 1 October for the start of next season.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Commence 50 post discussion on the name of the **** thread.

A month late, but why the heck not.

RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part III: Not Immune from the BHHC Influence

 

[jstadts]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

I personally dont understand the allure of RPI joining HE. Having to get past the likes of BC, BU, UNH and Co. every year in order to get a whiff of the NCAAs isn't my idea of a road map to a NC...not to mention recruiting against them...uphill all the way. I'd much prefer facing them in a one game tourney game than in the HE playoffs. Toots and Sneddon have been slugging away in HE for a while now, with limited success.

WS, I agree that the top of HE would be a daunting task but to be brutally honest and not counting the championships won by the 85 team which was assembled prior to the HE split, RPI has had 1 league championship in the past 25 years playing the role of ivy league wannabe. With regards to recruiting, I feel we are already recruiting against them . I think one of the key questions that would have to be answered by SA is how many talented players that could get admitted to RPI are we losing out on due to their desire to play in hockey east.

 

[troyboy]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

WS, I agree that the top of HE would be a daunting task but to be brutally honest and not counting the championships won by the 85 team which was assembled prior to the HE split, RPI has had 1 league championship in the past 25 years playing the role of ivy league wannabe. With regards to recruiting, I feel we are already recruiting against them . I think one of the key questions that would have to be answered by SA is how many talented players that could get admitted to RPI are we losing out on due to their desire to play in hockey east.

Agree 100% HE may help our recruiting and as far as getting players in school I don't believe RPI is a heavier lift than Boston College and they seem to be the yard stick as of late.

 

[troyboy]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

If the Ivies had wanted to split, they've had numerous numerous opportunities before this point. What are you proposing would cause that sudden change of heart?

The whole avalanche is dependent upon two things (which Tom has been covering very well in the tsunami watch)... Notre Dame's willingness to move from the remnants of the CCHA to wherever they choose and RPI's administration's opinions on the benefits of the greater competition vs deficits of not being associated with the Ivies.

I would like to see what we can do in the HEA, but I doubt that Shirley will let us find out. Just my opinion.

Please explain to me exactly what the defecit is by not being associated w/the Ivies...Is RPI one of the formost Engineering Programs in the country or are We Ivy wannabe's...The last 4 presidents have been Ivies and a good argument could be made that they have all in their own little way just about ruined the Country,so maybe its high time we disassociated w/the Ivies on multiple levels.The Question we need to be asking is when all this re-alignment is said and done it is most likely that some programs are going to left on the outside looking in... will we be one of those programs ?...It appears when the dust settles there will most likely be 3 major conferences who will be the deciders of all things NCAA Hockey.As luck would have it We are in the geographic wheelhouse of 1 of those conferences and would be remiss not to take advantage of it.Its good for the Institution...Good For the Hockey program...and good for the fan base...Putting Ivy Envy aside HE is not only a wise choice it may be the only choice to continue RPI Hockey tradition..If SA and the Col. could pull this move off and it is an IF I contend that they just might be saving the program...JMO

 

[fishcore12]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Will Coach Appert even be around for this moving of leagues if it was to happen ever? For all we know he could be gone within a couple of years given all this movement.

 

[fishcore12]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Please explain to me exactly what the defecit is by not being associated w/the Ivies...Is RPI one of the formost Engineering Programs in the country or are We Ivy wannabe's...The last 4 presidents have been Ivies and a good argument could be made that they have all in their own little way just about ruined the Country,so maybe its high time we disassociated w/the Ivies on multiple levels.The Question we need to be asking is when all this re-alignment is said and done it is most likely that some programs are going to left on the outside looking in... will we be one of those programs ?...It appears when the dust settles there will most likely be 3 major conferences who will be the deciders of all things NCAA Hockey.As luck would have it We are in the geographic wheelhouse of 1 of those conferences and would be remiss not to take advantage of it.Its good for the Institution...Good For the Hockey program...and good for the fan base...Putting Ivy Envy aside HE is not only a wise choice it may be the only choice to continue RPI Hockey tradition..If SA and the Col. could pull this move off and it is an IF I contend that they just might be saving the program...JMO

At least your ok with change...and that is good. If everyone else is changing leagues why dont we just go back to the old ECAC with like 20 teams or whatever it was....please note this was before I was born so I may and will get facts wrong.

 

[troyboy]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Will Coach Appert even be around for this moving of leagues if it was to happen ever? For all we know he could be gone within a couple of years given all this movement.

Your right he could be.....but if we don't act in the best interst of the hockey program and explore our options(if any...its not written anywhere that HE is ready to do anything) He WILL be gone.Its not in his best interest to be running a mid major hockey program or even possibly a D-III program.That I can assure you.

 

[fishcore12]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Your right he could be.....but if we don't act in the best interst of the hockey program and explore our options(if any...its not written anywhere that HE is ready to do anything) He WILL be gone.Its not in his best interest to be running a mid major hockey program or even possibly a D-III program.That I can assure you.

As much as Coach Appert seems to be a program guy, if a bigger offer or dream school came calling it wouldnt take much for him to go. We would just hope that the program is setup nicely before he left so we dont end up being mid-major or DIII.

 

[troyboy]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Will Coach Appert even be around for this moving of leagues if it was to happen ever? For all we know he could be gone within a couple of years given all this movement.

f12 this is not a couple years down the road this is happening in real time.Its not going to drag on.Once its on paper its game over...when it is going to take place is inmaterial once its decided your either in or your out.Were @ the fork in the road right now ! Its concievable that the 3 new "super leagues" could demand more than 1 auto bid to the tourney and suck up the lions share of the at large bids by limiting ther non conference schedule to the 3 leagues thus negating any chance for anyone other than themselves for a strong rpi thus leaving only auto bids for the remaining leagues...in that scenerio it makes sense for the Ivies to split so the are guarunteed a spot in the tournament...where does that leave us..somewhere between a s**t and a fart...remember we are relying on the people that brought us league officials verbally attacking press members in public and Atlantic City to sheppard us thru this process...good luck with that !!!!...we need to control our own destiny !!!

 

[rpi82]

Please explain to me exactly what the defecit is by not being associated w/the Ivies...Is RPI one of the formost Engineering Programs in the country or are We Ivy wannabe's...The last 4 presidents have been Ivies and a good argument could be made that they have all in their own little way just about ruined the Country,so maybe its high time we disassociated w/the Ivies on multiple levels.The Question we need to be asking is when all this re-alignment is said and done it is most likely that some programs are going to left on the outside looking in... will we be one of those programs ?...It appears when the dust settles there will most likely be 3 major conferences who will be the deciders of all things NCAA Hockey.As luck would have it We are in the geographic wheelhouse of 1 of those conferences and would be remiss not to take advantage of it.Its good for the Institution...Good For the Hockey program...and good for the fan base...Putting Ivy Envy aside HE is not only a wise choice it may be the only choice to continue RPI Hockey tradition..If SA and the Col. could pull this move off and it is an IF I contend that they just might be saving the program...JMO

Playing in a league with Ivies doesn't make us "wannabe Ivies" any more than playing in a league with BC, PC, and Merrimack would make us "wannabe Catholics" or playing with Maine, UNH, UVM, UML and UMA would make us "wannabe publics." BTW, not that it matters, but several Of those Ivies have engineering programs that are superior to anything in HE.

 

[fishcore12]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

f12 this is not a couple years down the road this is happening in real time.Its not going to drag on.Once its on paper its game over...when it is going to take place is inmaterial once its decided your either in or your out.Were @ the fork in the road right now ! Its concievable that the 3 new "super leagues" could demand more than 1 auto bid to the tourney and suck up the lions share of the at large bids by limiting ther non conference schedule to the 3 leagues thus negating any chance for anyone other than themselves for a strong rpi thus leaving only auto bids for the remaining leagues...in that scenerio it makes sense for the Ivies to split so the are guarunteed a spot in the tournament...where does that leave us..somewhere between a s**t and a fart...remember we are relying on the people that brought us league officials verbally attacking press members in public and Atlantic City to sheppard us thru this process...good luck with that !!!!...we need to control our own destiny !!!

Im sure talks are happening behind the scenes over at RPI with this whole situation. Yes we need to look out for ourselves but in a way we need to look out for the rest of college hockey as well. RPI has always had a good connection with hockey east schools so yes there is a good way to get into the league if asked. Unless RPI decides to go DI in everything....which I have said for years they should, then they might not have a big say in things sadly. Tradition and winning a national title twice in the last 50 years doesnt mean much these days. College Hockey is slowly becoming like football and basketball where the big dogs run the show and everyone else gets whats left.

 

[troyboy]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Playing in a league with Ivies doesn't make us "wannabe Ivies" any more than playing in a league with BC, PC, and Merrimack would make us "wannabe Catholics" or playing with Maine, UNH, UVM, UML and UMA would make us "wannabe publics." BTW, not that it matters, but several Of those Ivies have engineering programs that are superior to anything in HE.

You missed the point...fishcore12 stated that we have to weigh the "benifit of the greater compitition" vs "deficits of not being associated with the Ivies" and I was wondering what that deficit was.I agree w/you we shouldn't wannabe anybody so that shouldn't factor in the decision.The Admin.and the Alumni (who by the way will ultimitly be the deciders) need to decide how important the program is to the vitality of the Institution regardless of what schools are in the league we play in.Do we want to continue to compete on the highest levels in Ice Hockey or don't we...thats the decision they have.

 

[burgie12]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

You missed the point...fishcore12 stated that we have to weigh the "benifit of the greater compitition" vs "deficits of not being associated with the Ivies" and I was wondering what that deficit was.

That was me, not fishcore, and I said it wasn't your or my opinion, it was Shirley's.

She is the pivot in what direction we move.

Of course, before that, it falls to whether HEA will admit Notre Dame (if they even choose to go the Eastern hockey route) and who they want to look at for a 12th team (if they even go to 12).

We're speculating about things that "are going to happen" when we're skipping four steps in between. And, don't go around fear-mongering by saying that Appert's going to leave for a D-III program. That's foolish talk and you know it. At this point, I really only see Appert leaving for Denver or Ferris State. He has made a commitment to RPI and the administration has made a significant investment and commitment back to him.

Edit: I mis-read your post originally. My apologies. I'm very sorry that I did not correctly read what you wrote. I don't see us moving down to D-III, mainly because of the huge fight that occurred a few years ago to keep scholarships available for teams that were playing up (I wasn't around / paying attention, so I don't have details / links). That fight showed particular dedication by Clarkson, Colorado College, St. Lawrence, and us and I tend to doubt that we would move down to D-III after making such a big hullabaloo. As to whether Appert stays around if we become a designated "mid-major" school, I think you might be surprised. He knows the limitations that he has currently and is able to fight through them fairly effectively. I think that he will continue to excel even if the team is designated as competing in a "mid-major" conference. Will he become frustrated? Probably. But, I still wouldn't expect him to jump ship before his contract expires unless it is DU or FSU that comes calling at his door. Would he leave after seven years? Maybe. But, that's also seven years down the road and any number of things could / will happen in that time period.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

That was me, not fishcore, and I said it wasn't your or my opinion, it was Shirley's.

She is the pivot in what direction we move.

Of course, before that, it falls to whether HEA will admit Notre Dame (if they even choose to go the Eastern hockey route) and who they want to look at for a 12th team (if they even go to 12).

We're speculating about things that "are going to happen" when we're skipping four steps in between. And, don't go around fear-mongering by saying that Appert's going to leave for a D-III program. That's foolish talk and you know it. At this point, I really only see Appert leaving for Denver or Ferris State. He has made a commitment to RPI and the administration has made a significant investment and commitment back to him.

And when the smoke clears there may not be a FSU hockey team.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

I have vacillated over the years about whether RPI should be in the ECAC or HEA. Back when the HEA was formed I strongly felt that RPI should switch leagues -- there was no sense in playing up if we were not going to it as well as possible. A few years later, I decided that the ECAC was not so bad after all. Now I am leaning to switching again, but see both sides. IMHO, we have a better chance of being in the NCAA tourney in the ECAC, but would have a better chance of advancing if we are in the HEA.

The ECAC has evened out over the years. There used to be two good Ivies (CU, HU), and four bad ones. Now they are closer in ability. The problem is that the ECAC competition does not prepare us for playing the better teams in the current WCHA, CCHA, and HEA with all of the marbles on the line.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

Does anyone have a guess as to what the HEA schedule would be with 12 teams with ND and us added? They could go to a 22 game schedule, but not with travel partners since no one would match with ND. They might do a 22 game schedule but one year play both ND games away, and the next at home.

They could consider the league as 3 pods of 4 schools and play each school in the same pod an extra time (25 game schedule) or twice extra (28 games). Without looking a map perhaps the pods could be (Maine, UNH, Merrimack, UML), (BU, BC, NU, PC), and (RPI, ND, UMass, UVM).

 

[burgie12]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

They could consider the league as 3 pods of 4 schools and play each school in the same pod an extra time (25 game schedule) or twice extra (28 games). Without looking a map perhaps the pods could be (Maine, UNH, Merrimack, UML), (BU, BC, NU, PC), and (RPI, ND, UMass, UVM).

I find the 28-game structure very likely, and, looking at a map, that seems to be about the most reasonable pod structure. (Side note: If it was Quinnipiac instead of us, it could be the same pod structure or you could do a 3-way swap of Merrimack -> PC -> UVM, but that surmising is completely off-the-wall.)

I very much dislike dedicating so many games of a season to the conference slate, but I suspect that that is what will transpire (disclaimer: they have to go to 12 teams, blah blah blah), because I'm not sure how the athletic directors would like to be told that they have to fill five more non-conference games every year.

If I had a preference, it would be a 22-game schedule with a home-and-home with every team except for Notre Dame (and maybe Maine).

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

I find the 28-game structure very likely, and, looking at a map, that seems to be about the most reasonable pod structure. (Side note: If it was Quinnipiac instead of us, it could be the same pod structure or you could do a 3-way swap of Merrimack -> PC -> UVM, but that surmising is completely off-the-wall.)

I very much dislike dedicating so many games of a season to the conference slate, but I suspect that that is what will transpire (disclaimer: they have to go to 12 teams, blah blah blah), because I'm not sure how the athletic directors would like to be told that they have to fill five more non-conference games every year.

If I had a preference, it would be a 22-game schedule with a home-and-home with every team except for Notre Dame (and maybe Maine).

I agree that 28 games is most likely. I would like to keep home and home with UC, CCT, and SLU, and it won't happen with a 28 game-league schedule. Then again, those 3 schools might not want to play us if we leave.

 

[redhead18]

Re: RPI Off-Season Thread 2011 Part II: The Bryce is Right

I very much dislike dedicating so many games of a season to the conference slate, but I suspect that that is what will transpire (disclaimer: they have to go to 12 teams, blah blah blah), because I'm not sure how the athletic directors would like to be told that they have to fill five more non-conference games every year.

If im not mistaken, I believe that is one of the big reasons why they are looking to add 2 more schools to the conference, so they can reduce conference games to 22. The Boston based schools only get 5 non-conference games per season, since 2 of them are taken up with the Beanpot. Also, I think its likely HEA will look to get some kind of scheduling agreement with either the Big10 or the new conference to help fill in those extra games.