RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

[engineerhockeyfan]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

Jeeeeeeeez !!!!!!!!! thats a bit harsh.

Is it really? The numbers don't lie.
But I see it from the other side.
We tie a game or get a lead goal and then nothing. We have no second gear. We don't capitalize on the momentum shift that those goals get us. No killer instinct.
Then we take a penalty and all momentum is gone.
I don't see it as shrinking, it is just not adjusting to the push back. JMO

 

[hockeymascot]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

that doesn't quite match what I've seen or heard on the radio....it appears to me more often than not (with a few notable exceptions, of course; that always happens when one generalizes) that when the team faces adversity two things happen: they start to press, and they stop thinking clearly. In other words, they are putting more energy into their effort when the energy needs to go into their play. I do not see / hear them 'going away' so much as tightening up.

That indeed is related to confidence, if you define confidence as the experience that comes from mastering a difficult situation under duress. One builds that over time. There is a fine line based on ability and maturity. With some people, you give them a challenge and they expand themselves to meet it, since they believe they can do it, since they've done that before. It's my guess this thinking underlies the challenging out of conference schedule.

At first you react, then you think too much, then you learn to internalize so that you react but from an entirely different plane of awareness. It's too soon to say for sure but it is my surmise that we are in stage two and definitely are NOT packing it in because we simply feel overwhelmed.

This is very in depth, and to the normal young adult, too dynamic for them to even comprehend. As for your definition of confidence, are you speaking from an individual or team perspective? Confidence is a very personal mental belief that you will succeed.....and it depends on an individual's mental toughness to determine how easlily one can lose confidence. Team confidence is more collective..........and so is team chemistry and each individual understanding their role on the team, which idenifies you as a team.

This team is still searching for their identity!

 

[engineerhockeyfan]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

This team is still searching for their identity!

Yes, that totally sums up the problem.
Watching them, you don't know what kind of team they are, so how can they know?

 

[FreshFish]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

This is very in depth, and to the normal young adult, too dynamic for them to even comprehend.

What?? Aren't these exactly the kinds of life skills people go to college to learn? Don't you rehearse sophisticated detailed techniques in practice over and over so that when it comes time to execute in a game situation, you do it reflexively?

That's how we learned the fundamentals of our sports when I was in college. Granted that was a while ago, and standards across the board are lower now than they were back then; however I don't think the situation is that bad yet!

 

[hockeymascot]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

What?? Aren't these exactly the kinds of life skills people go to college to learn? Don't you rehearse sophisticated detailed techniques in practice over and over so that when it comes time to execute in a game situation, you do it reflexively?

That's how we learned the fundamentals of our sports when I was in college. Granted that was a while ago, and standards across the board are lower now than they were back then; however I don't think the situation is that bad yet!

If you played the sport of hockey at the Division 1 level, you do learn life skills, however, you do not learn "sophisticated detailed techniques in practice"! There are mental techniques some players use for game preparation, but in practice, you create GOOD habitats and learn concepts which I would hardly define as detailed! You are teaching concepts because this is a game which allows for creativity, and depending on the creativity of each player and their thought process, how they think and react to certain situations will vary.

You can learn all the systems you want, the trick is getting the individual and team as a whole to execute on a consistent basis.......a challenge for any coaching staff!

 

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

Now that the drama's over, maybe I can mention this without getting jumped...

The last time RPI lost a lead and regained it later in the game... February 4 at Quinnipiac, the game ended in a 3-3 tie.

That was 28 games ago. Since then, they have won a total of 6 games and have lost a lead 6 times. They are 6-20-2 since then.

One thing the four lead losses this season seem to have in common - Clarkson, Union, Princeton, and Union again - there came a time when the other team battled back and we shrunk in response. Perhaps it's just me, but RPI seems to be getting a deserved reputation as a shrinking violet. Give them a little adversity and they'll go away.

Can't argue with the numbers-but i find it hard to believe that all 20+ players in the game can quit at once. Doesn't this argue for the problem right now being higher up? Bench strategy and coaching?

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

Can't argue with the numbers-but i find it hard to believe that all 20+ players in the game can quit at once. Doesn't this argue for the problem right now being higher up? Bench strategy and coaching?

I don't think they're all quitting at once. I would venture a guess that it's happening by one or two people per line, per shift, and happens at a gradual pace. Still shrinking, but not a Jenga collapse. The confidence, or lack thereof, of whomever stops believing needs to be addressed.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

I don't think they're all quitting at once. I would venture a guess that it's happening by one or two people per line, per shift, and happens at a gradual pace. Still shrinking, but not a Jenga collapse. The confidence, or lack thereof, of whomever stops believing needs to be addressed.

Thanks to Google for helping me translate "Jenga collapse".

 

[Senna]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

Can't argue with the numbers-but i find it hard to believe that all 20+ players in the game can quit at once. Doesn't this argue for the problem right now being higher up? Bench strategy and coaching?

Havent posted in a bit as I cant wrap my head around what might really be going on with the team. I also dont think that all 20 players are quitting at the same time. I also agree with the comments that there have been way to many turnovers which have led to scoring opportunities and goals. We do take way to many penalties for the way that we are currently playing. The team sometimes doesnt demostrate a huge sense of urgency - I have felt this from the beginning of the season when we have the power play and seemingly cant get the puck out of our own zone. I do also notice that some of the better teams we have played transition fast and hard in every circumstance. If we are building a team for speed, we should be doing the same.

Also interesting listening to the SA interview after the last Union game and him saying that the team either just doesnt know how to win or is conditioned to losing (or something to that effect). I do believe in this at times and we have all seen teams unacheive for completely unknown reasons. This is where I think we are.

Here's another fact - Colgate, who had a record similar to ours last year (I think something like 3-13-1) is now something like 11-4-2 and has something like a #5 power rating overall. How does that happen, and should we maybe start to view this season in that lens a bit ? Probably in my opinion. All that being said, nothing will come without massive effort and then the question is whether we are sufficiently aggravated by where we are at and play with a style leaving nothing on the table every night.

More later...

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

Havent posted in a bit as I cant wrap my head around what might really be going on with the team. I also dont think that all 20 players are quitting at the same time. I also agree with the comments that there have been way to many turnovers which have led to scoring opportunities and goals. We do take way to many penalties for the way that we are currently playing. The team sometimes doesnt demostrate a huge sense of urgency - I have felt this from the beginning of the season when we have the power play and seemingly cant get the puck out of our own zone. I do also notice that some of the better teams we have played transition fast and hard in every circumstance. If we are building a team for speed, we should be doing the same.

Also interesting listening to the SA interview after the last Union game and him saying that the team either just doesnt know how to win or is conditioned to losing (or something to that effect). I do believe in this at times and we have all seen teams unacheive for completely unknown reasons. This is where I think we are.

Here's another fact - Colgate, who had a record similar to ours last year (I think something like 3-13-1) is now something like 11-4-2 and has something like a #5 power rating overall. How does that happen, and should we maybe start to view this season in that lens a bit ? Probably in my opinion. All that being said, nothing will come without massive effort and then the question is whether we are sufficiently aggravated by where we are at and play with a style leaving nothing on the table every night.

More later...

Colgate was a young team last year that just didn't get things clicking until late in the season. I am not going to even go close to that lens until we start seeing the players discipline their game. I could see where you'd think this is true given that our offense is now starting to gel, but there's too many stupid penalties and stupid mistakes. And that's not just this team; it has been happening all throughout the time I have been following RPI hockey (which includes a couple years of Fridgen).

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

Can't argue with the numbers-but i find it hard to believe that all 20+ players in the game can quit at once.

Definitely not the entire team quitting at once, but enough that those who are working hard will find their efforts fruitless. Hockey's a team sport - if the whole team isn't on the same page, nothing gets accomplished.

 

[engineerhockeyfan]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

Definitely not the entire team quitting at once, but enough that those who are working hard will find their efforts fruitless. Hockey's a team sport - if the whole team isn't on the same page, nothing gets accomplished.

I just don't think that quitting is the correct terminology.
Deflated might be a better word. No one on this team is giving up during a game. They are losing focus for a time and it is killing them.
The penalties and the complaining about the penalties has to stop. We get no where with the officials, and they really don't seem to like us. So lets just stop the complaining.
Go out and play hockey. If we get called, sit in the box and come out playing.
I really believe that it is an attitude problem with both the team and the officials and it needs to be fixed.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

I just don't think that quitting is the correct terminology.
Deflated might be a better word. No one on this team is giving up during a game. They are losing focus for a time and it is killing them.
The penalties and the complaining about the penalties has to stop. We get no where with the officials, and they really don't seem to like us. So lets just stop the complaining.
Go out and play hockey. If we get called, sit in the box and come out playing.
I really believe that it is an attitude problem with both the team and the officials and it needs to be fixed.

I think that is correct. They haven't looked like they have been quitting, and we do have that perennial problem with officials, due to the officials' perception of RPI built up over decades..

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

No one on this team is giving up during a game.

Disagree completely.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

I just don't think that quitting is the correct terminology.
... They are losing focus for a time and it is killing them. .....lets just stop the complaining.
Go out and play hockey. If we get called, sit in the box and come out playing.
I really believe that it is an attitude problem.

Yes. It is partly a problem of conditioning (it is hard work to maintain mental focus!), not just physical conditioning but also psychological conditioning if you will.

It also is partly an attitude problem. I remember once having a doubles partner in beach volleyball who just whined and complained all the time. My first thought was to strangle him. I decided to play such a perfect game that there would be nothing he could possibly complain about. I pretty much refused to talk to him at all during our matches, I just ignored him and played my part with silent furious intensity. We did wind up finishing second and I never played with him again.

You can complain about the ref or you can elevate your game to show him he's just a jerk by ignoring him entirely. That takes a certain amount of maturity and we are still developing that.

In this regard I think SA himself has to take on a stronger leadership role. He's got to stop complaining about the referees too.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

A sizable segment of the penalties we've taken this year have been very much deserved, in my view. Appert seized on the separation we're seeing between being lax on the ice and taking too many dumb penalties. There needs to be controlled intensity out there, and we just haven't seen that.

With regards to complaints about the refs... we all know they suck. If there's some kind of institutionalized bias against RPI (I kind of doubt it, but given Stewart's comments last year you never know), that's a great reason to get the hell out of the league. The important thing is to call a spade a spade. When the calls are legit, say so. It gives you credibility down the road when you're getting hosed.

I did disagree with the call against AAG that led to the five on three, and from most accounts Appert wasn't really crossing any lines when he got slapped with the bench minor.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

With regards to complaints about the refs... we all know they suck. If there's some kind of institutionalized bias against RPI (I kind of doubt it, but given Stewart's comments last year you never know), that's a great reason to get the hell out of the league. The important thing is to call a spade a spade. When the calls are legit, say so. It gives you credibility down the road when you're getting hosed.

That makes sense, but I doubt that any coach does it,

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

Disagree completely.

Maybe in the last couple of minutes, but I really haven't noticed players giving up during most of the game. Poor play, but not giving up. I certainly will admit that since you attend games you can see things that I cannot catch on video, and most of the games are just too depressing to want to watch again after the fact.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

That makes sense, but I doubt that any coach does it,

Well of course, do you think they'll call out their players in public for that? I know there was a "puppy poop" comment a couple years ago...

 

[AspyDad]

Re: RPI 2011 - 12 Part IV: We ain't Bailen on this season yet, Go Red!!

They had to look to the younger guys for scoring (JL, Haggs and Zach) and naturally there is some adjustment to the college game. I think you see these players starting to find a grove and this is where we may see the improvement from this team in the second half. The defense was good at the beginning of the year and has slid into a rough patch. Some of the upper classmen are struggling and IMO that has been the problem in this little stretch. Last year the leadership was with the forwards, CP and TH and this year the leadership needs to come from D. It is harder to impact the offense which is our deficient area in the first half from the blueliners. I really do believe that the slump in the upperclassmen Dmen is from them trying to do too much. They saw how Chase dominated and might want to do that but again it is diffucult from the Defense. Diebold has been outstanding and should see more time, no slight towards anyone but right now he is the hot guy and you need to ride him.