>>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

[blazer777]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

Not exactly. This system would be like ending the regular season in the NFL and having New England have to win a "tournament" between them, Buffalo, Miami, and the Jets in order to win a bid to the playoffs. The Patriots are clearly the best team in the AFC East (and have been for most of the last 15 years). They prove that by winning the most games over the course of the regular season. That, and that alone earns them a playoff bid. They don't have to go into a single elimination tournament against, and therefore rejuvenating hope for, three teams that essentially suck in comparison to earn the right to battle for the chance to win the Super Bowl.

Ah, but the NFL play-off's are essentially a single-elimination tournament with a couple of teams that should not be there. Granted, if only the top four teams were to play in those play-offs, you would have a pure contest where only the best were rewarded for their play during the season but since two wild-card teams were added to the mix, the NFL has turned it into a tournament for the best and for a couple of also-rans. Baseball has adopted the same setup and may expand and the NBA, everybody gets a trophy!

Why, well it's because of the money generated by the extra games.

Bottom line is that if you don't play in the tournament the way you were playing all season, you won't be going to the regionals.

 

[LtPowers]

Not exactly. This system would be like ending the regular season in the NFL and having New England have to win a "tournament" between them, Buffalo, Miami, and the Jets in order to win a bid to the playoffs. The Patriots are clearly the best team in the AFC East (and have been for most of the last 15 years). They prove that by winning the most games over the course of the regular season. That, and that alone earns them a playoff bid. They don't have to go into a single elimination tournament against, and therefore rejuvenating hope for, three teams that essentially suck in comparison to earn the right to battle for the chance to win the Super Bowl.
I completely understand the excitement (and $) that the conference tournaments generate. I also get that they're not going anywhere. It's just a shame that with rare exception, the regular season is essentially meaningless (aside from seeding) in the AHC and in all the so-called "mid-majors" in basketball. Your team can have a fantastic season and really prove themselves to be the best beyond a doubt (RMU), then get upset in a single game or two (which can happen at any time, btw) by a team that proved themselves to be not of championship caliber and the season is over.
As much as I think it's great that the RIT women are in the NCAA's and NU fans would be excited for the Eagles to get a chance to do the same, it's really just not right that teams that bad can move on over clearly superior teams that either had one bad game or two, or ran into a hot goaltender, or whatever. It's not a matter of Mercyhurst or Syracuse being "not able to" win a tournament as it is about that they didn't win this one. Does anyone think that aside from a miraculous performance by Binnington the Lady Tigers have any chance of upending Minnesota next weekend? At least Mercyhurst or SU proved over the course of the long season that they are more likely to put up a fight against the Lady Gophers.
In most conferences, none of this matters because the best teams are going to win at-large berths anyhow. But in "mid-majors", that's not the case.
Back in the day, the Big-10, PAC-10, and Ivy Leagues used the regular season to award their auto-bids in basketball. And way back when, there were no at-large bids to the NCAA's. That's just the way it went. If you were the best, you moved on, period. Obviously, both the B1G and the PAC-10 have submitted to the moneymaking benefits of having a tournament and will never go back. And we all know it's not about anything but the money, period. It has nothing to do with fan interest or giving everyone a chance. It's all about revenue. So for a few extra bucks, there is the chance that a 5 win, 59th ranked team in the regular season could make it to the tournament of 16. Really? Yeah, that's fair to all the teams that won games this year.

Look, if a team doesn't want to risk an NCAA bid to a one-and-done conference playoff, then all they have to do is play well enough to secure an at-large bid. Your New England example is ridiculous because we all know they'd make the playoffs regardless of what happened in the AFC East tournament.

Since you brought up the women's squad, do you really think we should hold their injury-riddled regular season against them if they're clearly the best team of the six /right now/? I don't think any team in the CHA has a better chance of succeeding in the tournament than RIT does, and RIT proved that by running the gantlet of the CHA Tournament.

You are also far too quick to dismiss the "fan interest" and "giving everyone a chance" factors. It's unlikely the league made much off of that Sacred Heart-Army series, for instance. Would an eight-team tournament really bring in that much less money than the 11-team tournament?


Powers &8^]

 

[Downstate_RIT_Fan]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

You are also far too quick to dismiss the "fan interest" and "giving everyone a chance" factors. It's unlikely the league made much off of that Sacred Heart-Army series, for instance. Would an eight-team tournament really bring in that much less money than the 11-team tournament?


Powers &8^]

I believe money is the biggest reason every team gets to play in the league championship tournament. Sure the league didn't make much off of the Sacred Heart - Army Series, but if it was held at West Point, both nights would of been close to sell outs (2000 +) as Tate Rink hasn't hosted a playoff series in a number of years and despite their record Army has a pretty strong fan base at West Point.

RIT could host Brick City at GPC if they wanted to, but that probably will not happen as long as RIT can sell out the BCA.

Anytime any televised sport, professional or otherwise goes into overtime, hockey, basketball, football, baseball (extra innings), etc., you likely have more commercials. More commercials equals more advertising revenue.

If you took money out of the equation, sure, I would like to see maybe only the top four teams in each league compete for a league championship. That could, however, inhibit the development of some of the younger players, if so much was riding on every single game and coaches opted to play there best team every game.

As long as there are folks like us who buy season tickets, or buy the online game packages, and want to go to every game whether it be opening night in October or senior night in March when a win means something in the seeding, all teams will and should compete in the tournament.

BTW, nice to see that a Mercyhurst thread started. Hopefully that will start a trend and will become a regular occurence, the more AH threads the better.

 

[dpm105]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

Bentley has announced their intention to build an on-campus arena. http://www.uscho.com/2015/03/10/bentley-evaluating-sites-for-a-new-on-campus-arena/ While obviously a great news item from Bentley, this is fantastic news for our whole league!

 

[Downstate_RIT_Fan]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

Bentley has announced their intention to build an on-campus arena. http://www.uscho.com/2015/03/10/bentley-evaluating-sites-for-a-new-on-campus-arena/ While obviously a great news item from Bentley, this is fantastic news for our whole league!

Great news coming from our friends at Bentley, now we wait and see if a few of the other programs in the league will consider upgrading their facilities as well.

 

[komey1]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

Great news coming from our friends at Bentley, now we wait and see if a few of the other programs in the league will consider upgrading their facilities as well.

This is another example of RIT leading the way in the conference. Mervyhurst and Bentley didn't want to be left behind in the arena department after the GPC was built. Atlantic Hockey is far better than they were when RIT joined the league in no small part to them winning conference titles and Final Four run.

 

[jflory81]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

Thus the debate: American soccer vs European Football. Should a title be earned by a knockout turnout or the earning of points over a long season?

Of course, European football also has Cup play where teams can win a single elimination tournament to qualify for European play the next season and win a trophy as well. So they kind of have both....and I would say the playoff style Champions League is more prestigious than winning your league title (by virtue of being a continental competition vs. a national one, granted), which is more prestigious than the FA Cup or Capital One (formerly Carling) Cup.

One area I find European Football far superior to American sports is relegation. Giving teams a reason to suck is the worst.

 

[LtPowers]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

One area I find European Football far superior to American sports is relegation. Giving teams a reason to suck is the worst.

A natural side effect of rules that encourage league parity, which makes for better competition. No one wants to follow a perennial loser with no chance of improving, so bad teams are offered a better chance to improve.

What I don't understand about promotion/relegation is how relegated teams manage to afford their expensive facilities that were built for a higher caliber of play. Imagine if bad major league baseball teams got relegated to the IL or PCL; they'd be drawing only 10-20k fans per game in those huge MLB stadiums.


Powers &8^]

 

[RIT Winters]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

This is another example of RIT leading the way in the conference. Mervyhurst and Bentley didn't want to be left behind in the arena department after the GPC was built. Atlantic Hockey is far better than they were when RIT joined the league in no small part to them winning conference titles and Final Four run.

What is strange about this is that despite us all agreeing that the competition level in this league is higher now and the teams are "better", Atlantic Hockey once again took a nosedive in OOC play this season. You would think that if the entire league is improving (at least the top 10 teams) we'd see that OOC success start to show.

The top 3 teams in Atlantic Hockey went 5-11-2 in non-conference games this year. Robert Morris was the only team with a winning OOC record at 3-2-1.

 

[lmg6841]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

What is strange about this is that despite us all agreeing that the competition level in this league is higher now and the teams are "better", Atlantic Hockey once again took a nosedive in OOC play this season. You would think that if the entire league is improving (at least the top 10 teams) we'd see that OOC success start to show.

The top 3 teams in Atlantic Hockey went 5-11-2 in non-conference games this year. Robert Morris was the only team with a winning OOC record at 3-2-1.

I know it's usually like this, but I wonder how the AHC would fair if they pushed their non-conference games towards the end of the season. I also wonder how the Western Pod fairs versus the Eastern. . .

 

[TigerFan86-87]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

I know it's usually like this, but I wonder how the AHC would fair if they pushed their non-conference games towards the end of the season. . . .

There aren't enough opponents available for NC games late in the season. Everyone is buried in conference play.

 

[TigerFan86-87]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

Your New England example is ridiculous because we all know they'd make the playoffs regardless of what happened in the AFC East tournament.
Powers &8^]

Not if there was only one bid available to the AFC East and they need to win that first tournament in order to make the playoffs.
If you think my example is ridiculous, you clearly didn't understand my point. In nearly all US pro sports, teams play themselves in or out of the playoffs by winning or losing in the regular season. In the NCAA mid-major conferences (in whatever sport), the regular season winning and losing makes little difference. Whomever plays the hottest in the last couple weeks gets a bid to the playoffs regardless of what they did all season. It's stupid however you slice it.

 

[TigerFan86-87]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

Ah, but the NFL play-off's are essentially a single-elimination tournament with a couple of teams that should not be there. Granted, if only the top four teams were to play in those play-offs, you would have a pure contest where only the best were rewarded for their play during the season but since two wild-card teams were added to the mix, the NFL has turned it into a tournament for the best and for a couple of also-rans. Baseball has adopted the same setup and may expand and the NBA, everybody gets a trophy!

Why, well it's because of the money generated by the extra games.

Bottom line is that if you don't play in the tournament the way you were playing all season, you won't be going to the regionals.

"should not be there" is subjective. Every league sets the criteria the teams need to meet for making the post-season. If it's 8 division winners and 4 wild cards, 4 top-3 in division teams plus 4 wild cards, or whatever doesn't matter. They all reward the best X number of teams, not the best 14 or 15 and one team that couldn't manage to win more than a few games all season but found some magic in it's conference tournament.

 

[TigerFan86-87]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

Since you brought up the women's squad, do you really think we should hold their injury-riddled regular season against them...?
Powers &8^]

Unfortunately, yes. In most pure post-season selection processes, you need to win from beginning to end of the season regardless of why. If you're riddled with injuries, that's the way it goes. The same thing could be said about NU in men's hockey. That's life. If you don't win you don't get in. period. Luckily for NU and RIT women, there is a second chance in NCAA sports. Great for them, unfortunate for teams like Mercyhurst / SU women and potentially RMU men if they get upset by them.

 

[LtPowers]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

Not if there was only one bid available to the AFC East and they need to win that first tournament in order to make the playoffs.
If you think my example is ridiculous, you clearly didn't understand my point. In nearly all US pro sports, teams play themselves in or out of the playoffs by winning or losing in the regular season. In the NCAA mid-major conferences (in whatever sport), the regular season winning and losing makes little difference. Whomever plays the hottest in the last couple weeks gets a bid to the playoffs regardless of what they did all season. It's stupid however you slice it.

You're missing my point. Teams can still play themselves into the tournament. It's not like being a one-bid conference is inherent to the AHA; it's just the way it works out most of the time. If Mercyhurst and/or Syracuse is upset about missing the NCAA tournament, how is that RIT's fault? Mercyhurst has previously made the field as an at-large team every single year; if they couldn't do it this year, they can hardly whine about not getting the auto-bid; there was no auto-bid in previous years and they made the tournament just fine.


Powers &8^]

 

[ritBLKnORGsuit]

Does anyone know how sales are going for the RIT vs Air Force series?

I've seen the school giving out a lot of tickets to students this week. College of Business was giving tickets to their students and now the club center is giving away 250 tickets. The website doesn't seem to be showing low number of tickets avaliable though at least today (Wednesday).

 

[blazer777]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

"should not be there" is subjective. Every league sets the criteria the teams need to meet for making the post-season. If it's 8 division winners and 4 wild cards, 4 top-3 in division teams plus 4 wild cards, or whatever doesn't matter. They all reward the best X number of teams, not the best 14 or 15 and one team that couldn't manage to win more than a few games all season but found some magic in it's conference tournament.

Well, yes it is subjective but the other alternative is to skip a conference tourney altogether and award the top team in each conference a place in the NCAA Frozen Five Tournament. In most conference tournaments, the bottom 3 or 4 get tossed in the first round anyway (except for Holy Cross which must have gotten the room temperature chicken this year) so you're left with a second round that pretty much matches what your looking for. For playing so well during the regular season, the top 4 teams get a well deserved bye-week to rest up which is a nice benefit at this time of the year.

If RMU falters against Niagara (1 versus 11) in their two or three games series, do you still think they deserve to have their ticket stamped to the NCAA's because they won their conference regular season title? I think you'd get a pretty good argument from those schools that finished 15th and 16th in the PWR rankings because they would both be denied entry based off the AHC auto-bid for tourney champion and a season champion scenario.

The NCAA basketball tourney honors 64 +1 team with entry and not everyone of those teams has a stellar season. The teams seeded at 50th+ place have praise thrown on them if they come rushing through their bracket's, picking off the 1 or 2 seeds in doing so and the same process is followed in hockey.

The bottom line is that teams that do well during the season can and do sit in the top 15 of the standings and will make it to the tourney. If RMU had kept up their winning ways to the end, they too may have two options when the final buzzer blows at the BCA. Instead, they tossed out one of them and now they basically have to win it to move to the NCAA's. It's like Wilson says, you got to play the full 60 to win games, the same goes for your season.

 

[RIT Winters]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

I know it's usually like this, but I wonder how the AHC would fair if they pushed their non-conference games towards the end of the season. I also wonder how the Western Pod fairs versus the Eastern. . .

Considering that all teams are going to start rusty, I don't think that AHC would fare any better playing OOC games later in the year. It's not like AHC exists in a void where only we start slow in October.

I've seen the school giving out a lot of tickets to students this week. College of Business was giving tickets to their students and now the club center is giving away 250 tickets. The website doesn't seem to be showing low number of tickets avaliable though at least today (Wednesday).

Yeah, the Facebook page has mentioned several times over the last week that tickets were "going quickly"....but if that was true they wouldn't have needed to say it twice over a 7 day period. The volume of free tickets suddenly popping up further confirms that they've got seats to fill.

I don't know what more fans, students, and the community could ask for - it's a home playoff series in the GPC's Inaugural season against our storied rival (and military academy) Air force. Heck, the weather is even nicer now so it's not like that's an excuse to stay home!

 

[mar7967]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

Considering that all teams are going to start rusty, I don't think that AHC would fare any better playing OOC games later in the year. It's not like AHC exists in a void where only we start slow in October.



Yeah, the Facebook page has mentioned several times over the last week that tickets were "going quickly"....but if that was true they wouldn't have needed to say it twice over a 7 day period. The volume of free tickets suddenly popping up further confirms that they've got seats to fill.

I don't know what more fans, students, and the community could ask for - it's a home playoff series in the GPC's Inaugural season against our storied rival (and military academy) Air force. Heck, the weather is even nicer now so it's not like that's an excuse to stay home!

I agree. Looking at the seat selector for tomorrow's game, i see the club sections are almost entirely full, the reserved corners are about 2/3 available, the reserved end is like 90% available, The side behind the visitor bench is more than 50% available, and there are still a large percentage of GA tickets available.

I wonder what their walk up purchases will be like, or what it has been like all season

 

[Chris Lerch]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS - Roaring into the postseason <<<<<

Historically, playoffs have usually drawn slightly smaller crowds, especially the first game in a series. Plus there's usually around 400-500 less people there when the Amerks are at home, which they are on Friday. Friday nights seem to have more students than Saturdays. I'm predicting around 2,600 on Friday and 2,800 on Saturday. 2,000 on Sunday if necessary.

Spring break is the week after the finals (March 23-27) so if the Tigers advance, hopefully a lot of students will stick around for games at BCA.

The best scenario for attendance at the championships (and a big payday for the league) would be for RIT to advance and at least RMU or Canisius to do the same. That would put the Tigers in the late game at BCA.