>>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

[Tom Naeger]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

With regards to any relationship between winning the AHA regular season title and going to the NCAA's, you are the one who said something to the effect that it shows recruits they have a chance to go to the NCAA's every year...well, the team that finishes with the 2 seed or 3 seed or the 8th seed for that matter has a shot to go to the NCAA's too...what would you rather have, a 3rd place finish in the regular season and a tournament championship and NCAA bid or another 1st place finish and a team that gets shown the door in the semi's and goes home to raise another AHA regular season champs banner the next season on opening night? I'll take option 1 every day.

OMG stop, can you not read between the lines and find out what is really going on here. Komey is making a well thought out statement and your comparing apples to oranges. Komey's comment about recuriting and winning AHA regular seson titles is legitimate.

A recurit sees that and knows that this team can obviously compete against this conference. And if they win the conference tourament go to the NCAA. Since this team is finishing 2 or higher every year, they rank up good compare to the other teams, and have a better chance than most to make the NCAAs. Therefore, I may want to go to that school, because they win a lot and odds are they will win their conference tourament at some point and go to the NCAAs.

Your talking about winning the AHA tourament every year, which would be nice, and certainly help recuriting, but is a very lofty goal that RIT is building towards, but can not happen over night. A dynasty takes time.

It is beyond mind boggling that more people with an RIT background are not getting simple arithmetic. The conference overal record effect RIT strength of schedule and all AHA teams had bad out of conference records. Most of these OOC games are early season and on the road. They are the weakest conference so that is what they are stuck with. That fact alone makes it virtually impossible to get an at large bid right now. Last year was about as good chance of any that the AHA had for an at large bid. Air Force and RIT were both dominate. However, if you looked at the numbers at the end, you would have found that Air Force would not have had the numbers for an at large bid unless they had won the AHA Tourament, which of of course make the at large bid a moot point. The AHA has gotten better each year RIT has been in it, and the addition of Niagara and Robert Morris will make it even better...

You know, there are some people on this board smarter than me, there are even more who are not as smart as me. However, fewer go to as many college hockey games as I do. Many of you make about all the home games which is great, but how many of you drove out to Clarkson, Saint Lawrence, and West point this year? I still say if you had saw that Saint Lawrence game you would feel a lot better about RIT chances if they make the NCAAs. I am not saying anyone is smarter than anyone else here, but there are those who have a lot more experiance watching this team and Tiger teams of years past. And they all seem to be saying the same thing, and others who have not been to as many RIT games seem to be saying another thing....

 

[WestsideTigersFan]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

OMG stop, can you not read between the lines and find out what is really going on here. Komey is making a well thought out statement and your comparing apples to oranges. Komey's comment about recuriting and winning AHA regular seson titles is legitimate.

A recurit sees that and knows that this team can obviously compete against this conference. And if they win the conference tourament go to the NCAA. Since this team is finishing 2 or higher every year, they rank up good compare to the other teams, and have a better chance than most to make the NCAAs. Therefore, I may want to go to that school, because they win a lot and odds are they will win their conference tourament at some point and go to the NCAAs.

Your talking about winning the AHA tourament every year, which would be nice, and certainly help recuriting, but is a very lofty goal that RIT is building towards, but can not happen over night. A dynasty takes time.

It is beyond mind boggling that more people with an RIT background are not getting simple arithmetic. The conference overal record effect RIT strength of schedule and all AHA teams had bad out of conference records. Most of these OOC games are early season and on the road. They are the weakest conference so that is what they are stuck with. That fact alone makes it virtually impossible to get an at large bid right now. Last year was about as good chance of any that the AHA had for an at large bid. Air Force and RIT were both dominate. However, if you looked at the numbers at the end, you would have found that Air Force would not have had the numbers for an at large bid unless they had won the AHA Tourament, which of of course make the at large bid a moot point. The AHA has gotten better each year RIT has been in it, and the addition of Niagara and Robert Morris will make it even better...

You know, there are some people on this board smarter than me, there are even more who are not as smart as me. However, fewer go to as many college hockey games as I do. Many of you make about all the home games which is great, but how many of you drove out to Clarkson, Saint Lawrence, and West point this year? I still say if you had saw that Saint Lawrence game you would feel a lot better about RIT chances if they make the NCAAs. I am not saying anyone is smarter than anyone else here, but there are those who have a lot more experiance watching this team and Tiger teams of years past. And they all seem to be saying the same thing, and others who have not been to as many RIT games seem to be saying another thing....

Mark's statement is valid, but the value of it is tremendously overstated. NCAA tournament banners are a lot more impressive than regular season championship banners to recruits. String a few together, and you make yourself a player on the recruiting and national stage. Players want to play for the ultimate goal. If you legitimately represent an avenue to do that, it's a plus. Winning a regular season title is nice, but its not the ultimate goal.

No kidding the overall conference stunk OOC this season, but that's no excuse. The fact of the matter is if RIT doesn't do its part in terms of winning OOC games it doesn't much matter what the rest of the conference does anyway. I'll be the first to admit the conference as a whole has a ways to go in terms of proving itself capable outside of the conference, but as I said, RIT needs to take care of its own business first. And despite the conference's struggles, had RIT managed a high degree of success OOC this season, a second (although somewhat less likely) option for getting to the tournament would exist as we speak, via an at large.

This season has been the exception for me in terms of the number of games I've seen and the number of games I've missed. Going into this season I had missed a total of 3 home games in about 10 seasons, and managed about 1/3 of the road schedule each season as well. I've seen a lot of hockey. I'm not saying I have seen it all, but I've seen enough to see where the program is, where it seems to be lacking and what needs to happen in order for RIT to take the "next step".

And you may not be saying you are smarter than everyone else here, but you sure are going out of the way to imply it or at least infer it.

 

[Tom Naeger]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

All I am suggesting is that there are those who have a certain amount of experiance in these area and they seem to have the same setiments...

I guess certain segments of RIT fans have to agree to disagree on what are reasonable goals for the program because this topic has been shoot up more than an old Neumann goaltender...

 

[komey1]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

The whole idea should be to build a team that can have success at the NEXT level...against better opponents, on bigger stages, because quite frankly if you do that, winning in conference takes care of itself because you put the talent level of your team far ahead of most everyone else in AHA anyway. Am I disappointed that in 5 years RIT hasn't become a player in terms of being a recognized power? NO. Not in the least. It's a long process. Am I happy at the progress in terms of where we are in comparison to where we need to be to accomplish that? Not totally.

AFA needed 2 tournament appearances and a 10+ game winning streak to start year 3 to be ranked. Nuff said.

Tommy made the case I was regarding the conference regular season titles. Of course I would love tournament titles to go with the regular season titles, and they will come.

What I quoted is what interested in. You say that being a national power is a long process, but are not happy with RIT's progress so far. I AM happy with how far RIT has progresses. They are showing that they are more than a "one recruiting" class team. Some people questioned whether RIT's first regular season title was a fluke. Obviously it was not. That is progress. I would say that this year's team is the most best RIT team in the DI era. Not only that - this year's team is playing their best hockey at the right time - not something you could say about the past couple years. It's exciting to think what they are capable off.

 

[RITProf]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Is it Friday yet????

 

[XCTiger]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Is it Friday yet????

A little frustrated are we?????

I'm looking forward to 24hrs from now when I should be parking the car and working my way over to the BCA with my wife in tow. No more hoping that TW Syracuse picks up the Tigers game only to find out they'd rather broadcast Sectional football games from 2008, or play the "Sun Auto Used Car Show" over 3 or 4 times in a row. No more watching the choppy and fuzzy B2 feed. Finally Tiger hockey live. I can't wait.......

 

[WestsideTigersFan]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

AFA needed 2 tournament appearances and a 10+ game winning streak to start year 3 to be ranked. Nuff said.

Tommy made the case I was regarding the conference regular season titles. Of course I would love tournament titles to go with the regular season titles, and they will come.

What I quoted is what interested in. You say that being a national power is a long process, but are not happy with RIT's progress so far. I AM happy with how far RIT has progresses. They are showing that they are more than a "one recruiting" class team. Some people questioned whether RIT's first regular season title was a fluke. Obviously it was not. That is progress. I would say that this year's team is the most best RIT team in the DI era. Not only that - this year's team is playing their best hockey at the right time - not something you could say about the past couple years. It's exciting to think what they are capable off.

With regards to the part you quoted, I will say this: As far as being competitive within the AHA, there wasn't much question in my mind when we walked in the door that we would be at the very least competitive in conference. I think we've all acknowledged that the AHA is probably the least competitive of all the present conferences (may CHA rest in peace, btw) in comparison to their performances OOC and the fact that RIT was able to walk in off the street with a mix of talent recruited for action at both the DIII (there were a couple of leftovers) and DI levels and in its first year of playing a full conference schedule win a regular season title says something...granted it was a team with some good talent on it but still it says something. For certain the quality of the competition has improved, and RIT has improved as well, its been able to maintain the level of success within the conference. But that isn't the point.

When I look at the world outside of AHA and I see what those teams are doing, the style of hockey they are playing and then I look at RIT's struggles OOC and in the playoffs the past few years and I can't help but think that while we have built a program that is easily one of, if not the best, in AHA, we are really no closer in some respects to being a legitimate player on the national stage than we were when we embarked upon becoming a DI program 5 years ago. And that bothers me a great deal. Yes, we have some signature wins, the closest thing to a miracle many of us will ever witness against St.L, a win downtown against Cornell and of course the win at Minnesota. But the occasional win against a name opponent is a far cry from where we ultimately want to be and I just don't see the progress you seem to see Mark. We haven't really changed the type of player we recruit, we haven't changed the style of play we bring to the table and we haven't shown enough outside of our conference to lead me to believe we are much, if any, closer, to the concept of being competitive on a national level. A conference tournament win, and a good, competitive first round game at the NCAA's might change my opinion a bit, but quite frankly the proof is in the result and you are what your record says you are...which is a very good AHA team, but in comparison to the world outside of AHA, not ready for the next step, not remotely close.

 

[Tom Naeger]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Westside ok I will say it, this D-I program is 4 years old, 5 if you count that year that was a mix D-I/D-III schedule. Thinking that they are going to be a national power house at this point is unrealistic. The accomplishment of three regular season title in 4 years is amazing.

There are more milestones ahead, reaching the NCAAs, building a new arena. When we get to those it will attract different players that would have never consider RIT before hand.

Your trying to build the platform before the supports are in place...

 

[MattS]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Thinking that they are going to be a national power house at this point is unrealistic.

I might be mistaken, but I don't think Westside is saying RIT should be a national powerhouse at this point. My take is he's (she?) saying they expected greater improvement when compared to the first season of DI.

 

[komey1]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

I might be mistaken, but I don't think Westside is saying RIT should be a national powerhouse at this point. My take is he's (she?) saying they expected greater improvement when compared to the first season of DI.

RIT is sooooooooo much better now that they were 5 years ago.

RIT is playing the style they need to in order to win. The reality is that the other conferences can recruit better players for various reasons - some of which are pretty obvious. As RIT continues to be a consistant winner, they can recruit better players. I think RIT was better equipped this year to reload from this years graduations. Dan Ringwald and Jared DeMichael will be especially hard to replace. But I liked what I saw of Maledora's limited action and we will see what the new goalie recruit will bring.

The foundation of winning is being built - to use Tom's analogy. Rome was not built in a day.

 

[RITProf]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

A little frustrated are we?????

Yes! Faculty meetings will do that to you!

This has seemed like the longest week ever ... but at least the golf courses are opening up too.

I think, if I'm careful, I can make it to tomorrow afternoon...

 

[XCTiger]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

I might be mistaken, but I don't think Westside is saying RIT should be a national powerhouse at this point. My take is he's (she?) saying they expected greater improvement when compared to the first season of DI.

I think the first few AHA seasons set the bar for "success" pretty high. The team that won the RS title their first in AHA probably over-achieved a little. But the RS crown was the entire season as it was as far as they could go.

I think that the addition of RIT and AFA have forced the other teams in the league to elevate their programs from where they were 4 years ago in order to compete. I remember an exchange with someone from HC when the Tigers beat St Lawrence that first year. They were all excited that "the talent gap is closing". I had to respond that "If a win by an essentially DIII team was a sign of the improvement of the AHA, what kind of hockey was the league playing?". That went over like the proverbial turd in the punch bowl. Got lots of negative rep out of that one.

I think everyone agrees that we'd like to see better OOC performances out of the Tigers, but for this year I'd rather see 2 wins this weekend rather than 6 OOC wins early in the season and a loss Friday or Saturday. At this stage of the DI development of the program, getting the autobid is the only reasonable path to an NCAA appearance.

Becoming a national power is going to take a long time. If the schools in the league don't continue to elevate commitment, support, and quality of their programs, then RIT may outgrow the AHA. IMHO, the AHA isn't holding RIT back at this point in time. Being dominant in the league and having a very good shot at the autobid every year is helping us shine. Being competitive (not necessarily dominant) OOC and an annual favorite for the autobid is more important for the time being. If RIT was in the ECACHL, we likely wouldn't be having this discussion, or even dreaming about a trip to the NCAAs. Look at Union, they've been DI for close to 20 years. Last year was the first playoff series they've ever won, and 2010 is their first trip to Albany, and their first year being ranked and a TUC.

At this point in the Tigers DI history, thank God for the AHA and its autobid.

 

[WestsideTigersFan]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

I might be mistaken, but I don't think Westside is saying RIT should be a national powerhouse at this point. My take is he's (she?) saying they expected greater improvement when compared to the first season of DI.

You are 100% correct. In fact I clearly stated I didn't expect them to be a national powerhouse at this point on several occasions previously. What I am saying is that I hoped by this point we would have seen more signs that they were making progress towards that goal of national recognition in terms of success outside of the AHA, style of play, etc.

Are we better than we were the first year? For sure, and I have acknowledged that as well, but we haven't progressed as much as I had hoped in many areas.

 

[Tom Naeger]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

You are 100% correct. In fact I clearly stated I didn't expect them to be a national powerhouse at this point on several occasions previously. What I am saying is that I hoped by this point we would have seen more signs that they were making progress towards that goal of national recognition in terms of success outside of the AHA, style of play, etc.

Your statement doesn't jive with this one... (BUT AT LEAST I GOT YOU TO SAY IT)

we are really no closer in some respects to being a legitimate player on the national stage than we were when we embarked upon becoming a DI program 5 years ago. And that bothers me a great deal.

With about as much respect as I can musturd that is acidine. To do that we need to be drawing the top recurits in the country and we have a way to go before we can do that for the reasons I stated earlier...

 

[WestsideTigersFan]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Your statement doesn't jive with this one... (BUT AT LEAST I GOT YOU TO SAY IT)



With about as much respect as I can musturd that is acidine. To do that we need to be drawing the top recurits in the country and we have a way to go before we can do that for the reasons I stated earlier...

Tom, would you like to make my case further for me....I stated that I didn't expect RIT to be a national powerhouse after 5 years on at least 2 occasions in this thread, then I said that "they are no closer to being a legitimate player on the national stage" than they were 5 years ago. Where did I say I expected them to be? Show me...you can't...because I didn't. I said I expected them to be closer than they appear to me to be.

Your reading comprehension is pathetic. You didn't get me to say anything I hadn't already said, you clown. Stop with the self platitudes and stop basking in your supposed "intelligence" about all things hockey for just one minute and think about it. What is it that you supposedly got me to say that I hadn't already said? I stated that the program wasn't a national powerhouse at this point, nor had I expected it to be. The only points we really disagree on is the value of the AHA regular season title in terms of its recruiting value, the value of the #1 seed in the conference tournament, and exactly where the program is in terms of achieving the goals of being mentioned as a prominent national program on a consistent basis.

 

[cplinford]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

I dont care who we play I just want to win. I think that covers both arguments

 

[NYTrojan]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Your statement doesn't jive with this one...

I think that it does. He isn't saying he expects us to be a national player now... he expects us to be closer to being one than we were in our first year of DI. In essence: That we've improved. He never says that he expects us to be at the destination, but that we should be on our way.

I disagree with him in that I DO believe that we are on our way... but it seems dishonest to me to take that statement and try to say that he expects us to be a national power NOW.

 

[WestsideTigersFan]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Becoming a national power is going to take a long time. If the schools in the league don't continue to elevate commitment, support, and quality of their programs, then RIT may outgrow the AHA. IMHO, the AHA isn't holding RIT back at this point in time. Being dominant in the league and having a very good shot at the autobid every year is helping us shine. Being competitive (not necessarily dominant) OOC and an annual favorite for the autobid is more important for the time being. If RIT was in the ECACHL, we likely wouldn't be having this discussion, or even dreaming about a trip to the NCAAs. Look at Union, they've been DI for close to 20 years. Last year was the first playoff series they've ever won, and 2010 is their first trip to Albany, and their first year being ranked and a TUC.

At this point in the Tigers DI history, thank God for the AHA and its autobid.

I wouldn't judge the outside world by the trials and tribulations of the Union Hockey program and its constant struggle for success over the past nearly 20 years. Anyone who has followed the program will tell you its not been exactly smooth sailing internally there in terms of the support from the administration, etc. There are a lot of factors that come into play when looking at Union's lack of success in the ECACHL, and one shouldn't automatically assume that RIT will have to suffer the same troubles that Union as the program progresses, or transitions to a new conference (which trust me is something that has been discussed in the long term, albeit in broad general terms, but its not off the radar by any means).

 

[komey1]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Tom, would you like to make my case further for me....I stated that I didn't expect RIT to be a national powerhouse after 5 years on at least 2 occasions in this thread, then I said that "they are no closer to being a legitimate player on the national stage" than they were 5 years ago. Where did I say I expected them to be? Show me...you can't...because I didn't. I said I expected them to be closer than they appear to me to be.

You haven't said exactly, but you seem to inferred it. I would like you to spell it exactly where you thought RIT would be after 5 years at DI.

 

[Eighty-5]

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

Re: >>>>> RIT TIGERS 2009-2010 <<<<< Rockin' Part 2 - The Playoffs

What I am saying is that I hoped by this point we would have seen more signs that they were making progress towards that goal of national recognition in terms of success outside of the AHA, style of play, etc.

I think the jump that was made from year one with only 4 true division I wins to year two with a staggering 21 division I wins may have set your expectations a little high. Finishing 2nd and first the next two years should still be considered an accomplishment (rather than expected) as no other team was able to show that consistency.
Also, the move for RIT to become an Atlantic hockey power is much easier than it is to take the next step to becoming a national power. RIT moved to the top of Atlantic hockey because of the quality of coaching staff (strategic and recruiting), the superior facilities to other AHA teams and atmosphere that the players are able to play in every home game. Kids that want to go to top tier schools don't always make it. Most of them still want to play in the power conferences and get the exposure that they have. No matter how strong RIT is, you can't fool something into thinking the scouts are going to be coming to RIT vs AIC instead of Merrimack vs BC. So the kids go to Merrimack.
At least one step forward for AHA will be taken next year when Niagara joins. Hopefully the next step is taken to improve the lower tier programs in the league. If not, RIT will have it's work cut out to become a national contender playing out of the AHA.