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Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
- Thread starter Handyman
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P
Priceless
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Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
The article was entitled "Which Newspapers Do You Read?"
The Wall Street Journal is read by people who run the country.
The New York Times is read by people who think they run the country.
The Washington Post is read by people who think they ought to run the country.
USA Today is read by people who think they ought to run the country but don't understand The Washington Post.
The Los Angeles Times is read by people who wouldn't mind running the country, if they could spare the time.
The Boston Globe is read by people whose parents used to run the country.
The New York Daily News is read by people who aren't too sure who's running the country.
The New York Post is read by people who don't care who's running the country, as long as they do something scandalous.
The Miami Herald is read by people who are running another country.
For those of us old enough to remember reading newspapers it may still bring a chuckle.
I know this is changing the subject a bit, but your post reminded me of a funny little ditty I saw in a magazine 20 years ago that I enjoyed so much I cut it out and keep it in the drawer of my desk whenever I need a chuckle.Take it with a grain of salt. The Post is for people whose reading skills aren't up to the level of The Daily News.
The article was entitled "Which Newspapers Do You Read?"
The Wall Street Journal is read by people who run the country.
The New York Times is read by people who think they run the country.
The Washington Post is read by people who think they ought to run the country.
USA Today is read by people who think they ought to run the country but don't understand The Washington Post.
The Los Angeles Times is read by people who wouldn't mind running the country, if they could spare the time.
The Boston Globe is read by people whose parents used to run the country.
The New York Daily News is read by people who aren't too sure who's running the country.
The New York Post is read by people who don't care who's running the country, as long as they do something scandalous.
The Miami Herald is read by people who are running another country.
For those of us old enough to remember reading newspapers it may still bring a chuckle.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
Ironic, cause that is exactly what you did. Do as I say not as I do?
In another post you mention prosecuting the bad cops as a solution...have you been asleep since the summer? Ferguson DA admitted to putting false witnesses on the stand and grand juries everywhere else seem to not want to indict cops on anything. What would you suggest?
Ironic, cause that is exactly what you did. Do as I say not as I do?
In another post you mention prosecuting the bad cops as a solution...have you been asleep since the summer? Ferguson DA admitted to putting false witnesses on the stand and grand juries everywhere else seem to not want to indict cops on anything. What would you suggest?
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
The issue is there is at least a perceived difference, if not an actual difference, between in the outcomes of situations a white person can imagine themselves being in as opposed to one where they think they have control by "behaving correctly." Whereas the whole problem is that black people feel like they can do everything "right" and still wind up a corpse because Johnny Law has a racial profile of suspect criminality and blacks automatically make the cut.
Imagine a bad neighborhood. You don't walk through it because no matter what you're doing bad things can happen to you: at best you'll get hassled, more likely you'll get threatened, injured, or even killed.
Now imagine the bad neighborhood is anywhere there's a cop, simply because you are black. Any time you go outside, you're in a bad neighborhood. Plus there's no cops to protect you.
That's what white folk can't seem to fathom.
The issue is there is at least a perceived difference, if not an actual difference, between in the outcomes of situations a white person can imagine themselves being in as opposed to one where they think they have control by "behaving correctly." Whereas the whole problem is that black people feel like they can do everything "right" and still wind up a corpse because Johnny Law has a racial profile of suspect criminality and blacks automatically make the cut.
Imagine a bad neighborhood. You don't walk through it because no matter what you're doing bad things can happen to you: at best you'll get hassled, more likely you'll get threatened, injured, or even killed.
Now imagine the bad neighborhood is anywhere there's a cop, simply because you are black. Any time you go outside, you're in a bad neighborhood. Plus there's no cops to protect you.
That's what white folk can't seem to fathom.
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busterman62
I got a pocket full of kryptonite
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
Towards your point, I remember watching Bryant Gumbel's show on HBO this year and a segment on a police department out in California somewhere, I think maybe Oakland. The cops realized they had a bad relationship problem with the community. They got no cooperation in solving crimes. So a couple of officers applied for and received a five year grant to start a football program, with the cops as coaches. The theory was that if they could get to kids when they're 10-12 years old, and develop an element of trust, maybe the relationship between the police and the community could be opened up a bit.
Now, these were black cops. The response of the parents in the community was "no way." My kid is not going to have anything to do with cops. That's obviously very telling, at least from my perspective, in that this is clearly a very deep and significant problem, and it's not all about race, if it's about race at all.
At the time of the airing of the story, obviously the cops had made some headway (or it would have never seen HBO). Some of the parents who had been most outspoken against were ultimately persuaded to let kids participate. The kids, of course, just like playing football.
This is not a problem government alone can solve. It's not a problem police departments can solve. It's going to take cooperation and effort from the black community.
I think programs like the football one are great programs, and a great use of grant money, whether it comes from government or foundations or wherever. Police departments need to look for and be open to ideas that make them a part of the community, to build relationships and trust. But there should also be people in the black community who step forward with the goal of saving their own community and look for methods like the football program that can build relationships. It doesn't do any good to just raise your kid to distrust cops and always keep your hands in sight when they're around.
I'm not saying there isn't a severe relationship problem between law enforcement and the black community. That's pretty obvious, even to a whitey here in the midwest. My link was just a goodnatured poke at Handy, who is from the Twin Cities area, and the story I linked to was just in the news in that area. I'll be honest, I was surprised when I heard they indicted this patrolman for manslaughter.
Towards your point, I remember watching Bryant Gumbel's show on HBO this year and a segment on a police department out in California somewhere, I think maybe Oakland. The cops realized they had a bad relationship problem with the community. They got no cooperation in solving crimes. So a couple of officers applied for and received a five year grant to start a football program, with the cops as coaches. The theory was that if they could get to kids when they're 10-12 years old, and develop an element of trust, maybe the relationship between the police and the community could be opened up a bit.
Now, these were black cops. The response of the parents in the community was "no way." My kid is not going to have anything to do with cops. That's obviously very telling, at least from my perspective, in that this is clearly a very deep and significant problem, and it's not all about race, if it's about race at all.
At the time of the airing of the story, obviously the cops had made some headway (or it would have never seen HBO). Some of the parents who had been most outspoken against were ultimately persuaded to let kids participate. The kids, of course, just like playing football.
This is not a problem government alone can solve. It's not a problem police departments can solve. It's going to take cooperation and effort from the black community.
I think programs like the football one are great programs, and a great use of grant money, whether it comes from government or foundations or wherever. Police departments need to look for and be open to ideas that make them a part of the community, to build relationships and trust. But there should also be people in the black community who step forward with the goal of saving their own community and look for methods like the football program that can build relationships. It doesn't do any good to just raise your kid to distrust cops and always keep your hands in sight when they're around.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
I think race still played a big part of it. It seems to be an article of faith in poor neighborhoods that the cops who look like you are the worst, because they're always trying to prove themselves to The Man. This is a common theme in rap songs about black cops, and it's an old, old saw that goes back at least to Irish cops in Irish neighborhoods in NYC (that is, before they became the entire police force
). I'm sure in the Ostrogoth camps they would say "don't trust Lothar. He grew up around here but ever since he joined the legion he's been all about breaking heads just to prove to Marcus Antoninus that he's one of them. Now here, have this lovely leak; it's only half rotted."
In short, I think that was a case of "Uncle Tom Syndrome," which is a whole other thing.
Poor people don't trust cops because they know their rights aren't going to be protected when push comes to shove. If you hassle little Erica from Burbank for her dime bag there will be editorials in the paper about jackboot authoritarians. If you hassle Shanquatina from Compton... not so much.
Notice that all of this can take place even if the cops do nothing wrong. It's just part of the freight cost for living in a racist society.
I think race still played a big part of it. It seems to be an article of faith in poor neighborhoods that the cops who look like you are the worst, because they're always trying to prove themselves to The Man. This is a common theme in rap songs about black cops, and it's an old, old saw that goes back at least to Irish cops in Irish neighborhoods in NYC (that is, before they became the entire police force
). I'm sure in the Ostrogoth camps they would say "don't trust Lothar. He grew up around here but ever since he joined the legion he's been all about breaking heads just to prove to Marcus Antoninus that he's one of them. Now here, have this lovely leak; it's only half rotted."In short, I think that was a case of "Uncle Tom Syndrome," which is a whole other thing.
Poor people don't trust cops because they know their rights aren't going to be protected when push comes to shove. If you hassle little Erica from Burbank for her dime bag there will be editorials in the paper about jackboot authoritarians. If you hassle Shanquatina from Compton... not so much.
Notice that all of this can take place even if the cops do nothing wrong. It's just part of the freight cost for living in a racist society.
P
Priceless
Guest
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
"few"? The "Tea Party" is not a few people.
"few"? The "Tea Party" is not a few people.
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
So they don't like whitey as a cop because he's racist. They don't like the black boy because he's just an Uncle Tom who's sold out. Can't make all the asians cops, otherwise who will operate the corner groceries we need open for looting during the next peaceful protest. I suppose we could try to lease some Federales, but I hear there are pay issues with those guys. Guess we're stuck with Robocop.
Which is pretty much the same argument the Mob uses when talking about hits. Someone takes out our guy, we ain't going to the cops. They'll just hassle us. We'll keep our mouths shut and take care of it ourselves.
So they don't like whitey as a cop because he's racist. They don't like the black boy because he's just an Uncle Tom who's sold out. Can't make all the asians cops, otherwise who will operate the corner groceries we need open for looting during the next peaceful protest. I suppose we could try to lease some Federales, but I hear there are pay issues with those guys. Guess we're stuck with Robocop.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
Exactly. As I alluded to earlier, I exaggerated ("the liberal half") to stir up some self-reflexivity among people that think it's cool to paint a whole segment of the population with one broad brush. People are individuals. Do you guys think there is really only ONE cop in the country with an "intelligent response" to the riots? We would be in deep if that were true. Do you think there are no black cops in the United States? Are they self-hating "racists"? Do you think there's not one decent and honest white person in the U.S.? When you go down the road the whole position falls apart. We're all human people. IMO the rioting and drive-by shootings are actually making it MORE difficult to get indictments against trigger-happy cops in the cases where they are warranted because they are boosting the "us vs. them" state of the dialogue and turning the "power structures" to play defense.
btw, what happened in the case where the kid got shot in 2 seconds with the toy gun in a park? Anything come of it yet?
Exactly. As I alluded to earlier, I exaggerated ("the liberal half") to stir up some self-reflexivity among people that think it's cool to paint a whole segment of the population with one broad brush. People are individuals. Do you guys think there is really only ONE cop in the country with an "intelligent response" to the riots? We would be in deep if that were true. Do you think there are no black cops in the United States? Are they self-hating "racists"? Do you think there's not one decent and honest white person in the U.S.? When you go down the road the whole position falls apart. We're all human people. IMO the rioting and drive-by shootings are actually making it MORE difficult to get indictments against trigger-happy cops in the cases where they are warranted because they are boosting the "us vs. them" state of the dialogue and turning the "power structures" to play defense.
btw, what happened in the case where the kid got shot in 2 seconds with the toy gun in a park? Anything come of it yet?
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mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Go on....
johnnypohlfan
New member
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
Don't hold your breath. Telescope Boy is quite fond of throwing his idea of solutions out there to berate the rest of us for not thinking like him. When it comes to actually offering up a means to achieve those solutions, he mysteriously becomes pretty quiet, or changes the subject.
Don't hold your breath. Telescope Boy is quite fond of throwing his idea of solutions out there to berate the rest of us for not thinking like him. When it comes to actually offering up a means to achieve those solutions, he mysteriously becomes pretty quiet, or changes the subject.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
Means-tested free education, housing, health care, and child care. It's not that complicated -- the best way to pull people out of poverty is to remove the barriers to them doing it themselves. Poverty is multi-generational because there is (unsurprisingly) a very close correlation between the assets (time, money, skills) you need to get out of poverty and the very assets you lack when you are impoverished. So simply break that link -- ensure that no matter how poor you are you kids will get an even shot. That should also short-circuit all the moralistic arguments about whether people deserve their poverty or not. Doesn't matter -- nobody is going to argue that the newborn deserves its poverty.
So that's how you attack poverty. How you pay for it is obviously a different political battle, and I have plenty of thoughts on how to rearrange both our tax system and national priorities to do that. But that's a separate, very difficult, issue. What's easy -- and why we've been criminally neglectful since it is so easy yet we refuse to do it -- is how to break the cycle of poverty.
Means-tested free education, housing, health care, and child care. It's not that complicated -- the best way to pull people out of poverty is to remove the barriers to them doing it themselves. Poverty is multi-generational because there is (unsurprisingly) a very close correlation between the assets (time, money, skills) you need to get out of poverty and the very assets you lack when you are impoverished. So simply break that link -- ensure that no matter how poor you are you kids will get an even shot. That should also short-circuit all the moralistic arguments about whether people deserve their poverty or not. Doesn't matter -- nobody is going to argue that the newborn deserves its poverty.
So that's how you attack poverty. How you pay for it is obviously a different political battle, and I have plenty of thoughts on how to rearrange both our tax system and national priorities to do that. But that's a separate, very difficult, issue. What's easy -- and why we've been criminally neglectful since it is so easy yet we refuse to do it -- is how to break the cycle of poverty.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
Brahe had the telescope. Kepler just did the math.
Telescope boy. That's actually pretty funny.
Brahe had the telescope. Kepler just did the math.
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!
Isn't public education now free through grade 12?
Public housing costs what? (I don't know)
Obamacare is taking care of that (in theory)
Child care needs something.
And where are we means testing to?
I've stated before tax code needs drastic changes. 1% needs to pay more. Given expenses and their continual rise I'd almost go to 200k with no income tax.
With the proliferation of multiple houses being bought when needs to be done constitutionally to start a federal property tax?
Isn't public education now free through grade 12?
Public housing costs what? (I don't know)
Obamacare is taking care of that (in theory)
Child care needs something.
And where are we means testing to?
I've stated before tax code needs drastic changes. 1% needs to pay more. Given expenses and their continual rise I'd almost go to 200k with no income tax.
With the proliferation of multiple houses being bought when needs to be done constitutionally to start a federal property tax?
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