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Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

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Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

unofan said:
That's horse shiat and you know it. I guarantee nearly every driver breaks the law at some point or another on a given trip. Whether it's going 5 mph over the speed limit or not coming to a complete stop or passing on the right or whatever.

If it's statistically proven that black people are more likely to be pulled over than whites simply because of their skin color, saying "don't break the law" is a farking cop out to excuse the racism inherent in such a system.
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I never said that profiling doesn't happen.

But if you get pulled over and there is a pungent smell of dope or a pound of pot in the trunk or you happen to be in a car that isn't yours or have a warrant out for your arrest - too **** bad.


Talk about horse shiat... and you know it.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

It's just encoded into their DNA and thus they commit more (even the most minor) crimes!

I never said that profiling doesn't happen.
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Profiling does happen but it couldn't possibly explain in part those stats I always bring up...
 
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Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Gurtholfin said:
You realize that you are the only one saying that, right?
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Until you come up with an alternate explanation as to why blacks are way more likely to get a mj possession charge, despite the same usage rates as whites, then that's basically what you're arguing.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

trixR4kids said:
Until you come up with an alternate explanation as to why blacks are way more likely to get a mj possession charge, despite the same usage rates as whites, then that's basically what you're arguing.
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I used to be like you. Young and idealistic and to be honest, uninformed and ignorant.

I was in college when the Rodney King verdict hit and I vividly recall the argument I had with my roommates and friends as we were watching the riots live on CNN. They were making fun of and disparaging the looters and openly angry at the violence that was taking place.

I was the one in the room making excuses and saying "Put yourself in their place." Pointing out how unfair it all was.


Since then I grew up.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

trixR4kids said:
And I used to think like you but then I moved outside of Wisconsin.
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Nice try.

I grew up in Joliet.


And I currently live in arguably one of the more liberal cities in the entire country.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

I think it is pretty funny when white people tell other races about whether racism exists or not. It reminds me of when Christians tell me there is a War on Christmas or Men tell women how they should live their life and what choices they should make.

Look leave race out of it, if it was just cops killing perps would any of this be ok? Doesnt it seem like things are getting a bit out of control? Guy gets tazed for standing outside of a club waiting for the valet because he is supposedly tresspassing into a club he had been at all night? Cop chokes out a guy who is unarmed on a routine arrest for a non-violent crime? Kid gets shot...etc.

I respect cops (best friend from college is in the FBI, many friends on various departments around the TC area) but this idea that they are infallible and every decision they make is justified is excrement. They are human, and they work a high stress job where their life is on the line daily and we all know that can lead to rash decisions and mistakes. I can forgive most things, but if that mistake takes the life of someone that is not ok. The right to live is above all period end of story. You throw these people into high stress areas where crime is high, you hand them weapons and teach them how to kill and expect them not to ever screw up. They need to be trained better...they need to be protected better too.

Whether the system is racist or not is just noise...if it was white cops killing white perps in the same way it would still be wrong. Killing people is not ok, and acting stupid should not be a death sentence. Somewhere along the way that has gotten lost.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Gurtholfin said:
I used to be like you. Young and idealistic and to be honest, uninformed and ignorant.

I was in college when the Rodney King verdict hit and I vividly recall the argument I had with my roommates and friends as we were watching the riots live on CNN. They were making fun of and disparaging the looters and openly angry at the violence that was taking place.

I was the one in the room making excuses and saying "Put yourself in their place." Pointing out how unfair it all was.


Since then I grew up.
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Ah yes, the old "my changed opinion is a sign of maturity" card. :rolleyes:

I'm not above playing that myself (don't get me started on the superficial adolescent attraction of Frédéric Bastiat and Murray Rothbard), but if you changed your mind as you grew older that does not necessarily indicate you became any wiser. In fact, if you're asking us to believe you were an empty-headed, impressionable young person, odds are pretty good you're now just an empty-headed, impressionable old person, and the only thing that's changed is your waistline and the people you're blindly following.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Handyman said:
I think it is pretty funny when white people tell other races about whether racism exists or not. It reminds me of when Christians tell me there is a War on Christmas or Men tell women how they should live their life and what choices they should make.

Look leave race out of it, if it was just cops killing perps would any of this be ok? Doesnt it seem like things are getting a bit out of control? Guy gets tazed for standing outside of a club waiting for the valet because he is supposedly tresspassing into a club he had been at all night? Cop chokes out a guy who is unarmed on a routine arrest for a non-violent crime? Kid gets shot...etc.

I respect cops (best friend from college is in the FBI, many friends on various departments around the TC area) but this idea that they are infallible and every decision they make is justified is excrement. They are human, and they work a high stress job where their life is on the line daily and we all know that can lead to rash decisions and mistakes. I can forgive most things, but if that mistake takes the life of someone that is not ok. The right to live is above all period end of story. You throw these people into high stress areas where crime is high, you hand them weapons and teach them how to kill and expect them not to ever screw up. They need to be trained better...they need to be protected better too.

Whether the system is racist or not is just noise...if it was white cops killing white perps in the same way it would still be wrong. Killing people is not ok, and acting stupid should not be a death sentence. Somewhere along the way that has gotten lost.
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I think everyone here except for like Steve is on the same page as far as your first 3 paragraphs.

The first sentence of the 4th is where there's this huge hangup despite numerous studies showing otherwise. If it really was just noise then you could reasonably argue that there's a slight amount of statistical variance as far number of arrests for lower level crimes or amount of times blacks get shot vs whites but it's well beyond mere statistical noise.

Kepler said:
But whitesplaining is fun (and profitable).
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#6 :D
 
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Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Kepler said:
Ah yes, the old "my changed opinion is a sign of maturity" card. :rolleyes:

I'm not above playing that myself (don't get me started on the superficial adolescent attraction of Frédéric Bastiat and Murray Rothbard), but if you changed your mind as you grew older that does not necessarily indicate you became any wiser. In fact, if you're asking us to believe you were an empty-headed, impressionable young person, odds are pretty good you're now just an empty-headed, impressionable old person, and the only thing that's changed is your waistline and the people you're blindly following.
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Actual experiences changed my opinions on things.

As for my waistline, I'm back to college size and believe it or not, and I hate to admit this, I watch MSNBC more than any other cable news network. How does that fit your narrative?
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Kepler said:
I can't reply to anything else you wrote because this made me both admire and hate you. :mad:
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I'm in the best shape I've been in since high school athletics. ;):)
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

Handyman said:
I think it is pretty funny when white people tell other races about whether racism exists or not. It reminds me of when Christians tell me there is a War on Christmas or Men tell women how they should live their life and what choices they should make.

Look leave race out of it, if it was just cops killing perps would any of this be ok? Doesnt it seem like things are getting a bit out of control? Guy gets tazed for standing outside of a club waiting for the valet because he is supposedly tresspassing into a club he had been at all night? Cop chokes out a guy who is unarmed on a routine arrest for a non-violent crime? Kid gets shot...etc.

I respect cops (best friend from college is in the FBI, many friends on various departments around the TC area) but this idea that they are infallible and every decision they make is justified is excrement. They are human, and they work a high stress job where their life is on the line daily and we all know that can lead to rash decisions and mistakes. I can forgive most things, but if that mistake takes the life of someone that is not ok. The right to live is above all period end of story. You throw these people into high stress areas where crime is high, you hand them weapons and teach them how to kill and expect them not to ever screw up. They need to be trained better...they need to be protected better too.

Whether the system is racist or not is just noise...if it was white cops killing white perps in the same way it would still be wrong. Killing people is not ok, and acting stupid should not be a death sentence. Somewhere along the way that has gotten lost.
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Handyman hits it square on the head. When everything else is automatically drowned out by screaming "RACISM" over and over and over every time a black person is involved, we're ignoring all the other problems. The headline that never shows up on the news is, "Unarmed white guy shot by cops." Why is that? Because the victim is never white? No, because screaming RACISM over and over sells news to fools. Listen: When someone can get gunned down in the street for holding a pop tart aggressively, the race of the victim is not what's the problem. We're all just people.
 
What percentage of unarmed police shooting victims are black vs white, and how does that compare to the population? We know blacks are incarcerated at a higher rate, including for non-violent drug offenses. I know here in maine most police shootings involve armed white men (suicide by cop). But that is a totally different animal (yet in some cases still overreaction by an over militarized police force).

I find it amusing some white guys are experts on the plight of the poor black urban young man... Sitting in Bar Harbor Maine I won't even claim to know if the claims of racism are unfounded.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

The tracking of police shootings isn't very good, that was discussed a few pages back.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

I keep reading and hearing that cops killing people is so much "worse now that it used to be." Does anybody have any evidence of this? Do we know what those rates have been over the course of the last few decades? I don't know if stats were kept on the subject back then. My point is this, like parents who no longer let their children play outside on their own, people like to say things (kidnappings, drugs, etc.) are so much worse now than it was then, but the numbers don't really bear that out. They're just more highly publicized now than they were in the past.
 
Re: Riots and Racists and Looting...OH MY!!!

BassAle said:
What percentage of unarmed police shooting victims are black vs white, and how does that compare to the population? We know blacks are incarcerated at a higher rate, including for non-violent drug offenses. I know here in maine most police shootings involve armed white men (suicide by cop). But that is a totally different animal (yet in some cases still overreaction by an over militarized police force).

I find it amusing some white guys are experts on the plight of the poor black urban young man... Sitting in Bar Harbor Maine I won't even claim to know if the claims of racism are unfounded.
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I'm not sure if you're referring to people who post here, but I don't recall anyone claiming to be an "expert" on the plight of poor, black urban men, other than perhaps Priceless. And I don't know if he even claims to be an expert. As I recall he has just suggested he has had more opportunity to work with people in that setting.

As has been posted by multiple people here, I think most of us just questioned the relationship between race and what occurred in Ferguson, as opposed to the media and some others who immediately made it a racial issue. When a white cop shoots an African American, I don't just assume there is a racial component, just like when an African American commits a crime against a white individual, I don't assume a racial component. I need to see some evidence that race actually may have played a role. The Mark Fuhrman interviews are a classic example.

I will say that I find it somewhat laughable when people say "you can't understand the plight of a young black man in America because you're white," but don't reach the same conclusion about another white man who happens to voice opinions or beliefs that are supportive of African Americans. Either we are all precluded by our skin color from having any ability to understand, or none of us are.
 
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