Religion: Catholics, Episcopalians, Atheists, All Are Welcome!

[dxmnkd316]

At this point, I don't miss going to church. I'm having more fun with my friends on Sunday mornings at Lucy's Cafe, bonding over biscuits and gravy and coffee.

Church is what you make it.

 

[Kepler]

Church is what you make it.

-- The Republican party.

 

[Kepler]

Religion is so healthy.

 

[burd]

Church is what you make it.

The mind is its own place, and in it self
Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n.

John Milton

 

[Kepler]

The mind is its own place, and in it self
Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n.

John Milton

there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so

Hamlet, Act II, Scene 2

 

[burd]

there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so

Hamlet, Act II, Scene 2

A simple enough thought, but thank Parise for poets. I've always liked your Hamlet quote more, for some reason.

 

[Kepler]

A simple enough thought, but thank Parise for poets. I've always liked your Hamlet quote more, for some reason.

The whole exchange is great.

GUILDENSTERN

My honoured lord!​

ROSENCRANTZ

My most dear lord!​

HAMLET

My excellent good friends! How dost thou,
Guildenstern? Ah, Rosencrantz! Good lads, how do ye both?​

ROSENCRANTZ

As the indifferent children of the earth.​

GUILDENSTERN

Happy, in that we are not over-happy;
On fortune's cap we are not the very button.​

HAMLET

Nor the soles of her shoe?​

ROSENCRANTZ

Neither, my lord.​

HAMLET

Then you live about her waist, or in the middle of
her favours?​

GUILDENSTERN

'Faith, her privates we.​

HAMLET

In the secret parts of fortune? O, most true; she
is a strumpet. What's the news?​

ROSENCRANTZ

None, my lord, but that the world's grown honest.​

HAMLET

Then is doomsday near: but your news is not true.
Let me question more in particular: what have you,
my good friends, deserved at the hands of fortune,
that she sends you to prison hither?​

GUILDENSTERN

Prison, my lord!​

HAMLET

Denmark's a prison.​

ROSENCRANTZ

Then is the world one.​

HAMLET

A goodly one; in which there are many confines,
wards and dungeons, Denmark being one o' the worst.​

ROSENCRANTZ

We think not so, my lord.​

HAMLET

Why, then, 'tis none to you; for there is nothing
either good or bad, but thinking makes it so: to me
it is a prison.​

ROSENCRANTZ

Why then, your ambition makes it one; 'tis too
narrow for your mind.​

HAMLET

O God, I could be bounded in a nut shell and count
myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I
have bad dreams.​

GUILDENSTERN

Which dreams indeed are ambition, for the very
substance of the ambitious is merely the shadow of a dream.​

HAMLET

A dream itself is but a shadow.​

ROSENCRANTZ

Truly, and I hold ambition of so airy and light a
quality that it is but a shadow's shadow.​

HAMLET

Then are our beggars bodies, and our monarchs and
outstretched heroes the beggars' shadows.​

 

[burd]

The whole exchange is great.

GUILDENSTERN

My honoured lord!​

ROSENCRANTZ

My most dear lord!​

HAMLET

My excellent good friends! How dost thou,
Guildenstern? Ah, Rosencrantz! Good lads, how do ye both?​

ROSENCRANTZ

As the indifferent children of the earth.​

GUILDENSTERN

Happy, in that we are not over-happy;
On fortune's cap we are not the very button.​

HAMLET

Nor the soles of her shoe?​

ROSENCRANTZ

Neither, my lord.​

HAMLET

Then you live about her waist, or in the middle of
her favours?​

GUILDENSTERN

'Faith, her privates we.​

HAMLET

In the secret parts of fortune? O, most true; she
is a strumpet. What's the news?​

ROSENCRANTZ

None, my lord, but that the world's grown honest.​

HAMLET

Then is doomsday near: but your news is not true.
Let me question more in particular: what have you,
my good friends, deserved at the hands of fortune,
that she sends you to prison hither?​

GUILDENSTERN

Prison, my lord!​

HAMLET

Denmark's a prison.​

ROSENCRANTZ

Then is the world one.​

HAMLET

A goodly one; in which there are many confines,
wards and dungeons, Denmark being one o' the worst.​

ROSENCRANTZ

We think not so, my lord.​

HAMLET

Why, then, 'tis none to you; for there is nothing
either good or bad, but thinking makes it so: to me
it is a prison.​

ROSENCRANTZ

Why then, your ambition makes it one; 'tis too
narrow for your mind.​

HAMLET

O God, I could be bounded in a nut shell and count
myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I
have bad dreams.​

GUILDENSTERN

Which dreams indeed are ambition, for the very
substance of the ambitious is merely the shadow of a dream.​

HAMLET

A dream itself is but a shadow.​

ROSENCRANTZ

Truly, and I hold ambition of so airy and light a
quality that it is but a shadow's shadow.​

HAMLET

Then are our beggars bodies, and our monarchs and
outstretched heroes the beggars' shadows.​

Do you know if there are many old manuscripts showing his marked up drafts? What a treat that would be.

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Pope Francis endorses same sex civil unions

 

[Kepler]

Pope Francis endorses same sex civil unions

Huh. That's interesting. Hitherto, despite his sanity on other things, he was just another GOD HATES FAGS pope.

 

[Kepler]

Do you know if there are many old manuscripts showing his marked up drafts? What a treat that would be.

There are drafts and they are interesting:

https://lithub.com/take-heart-shakes...ty-d*mn-rough/

Replace the '*' with an 'a' because we wouldn't want to offend the crossfondlers.

 

[Proud2baLaker]

Huh. That's interesting. Hitherto, despite his sanity on other things, he was just another GOD HATES FAGS pope.

I can't say with certainty but from what I have seen he was never in that crowd. When he was still cardinal of Argentina he showed support for civil unions then too i believe. Dude's a Jesuit. From what I do know about Jesuits they tend to be less derpy and hate filled. But I'm a lapsed catholic turned atheist so I haven't followed it to close.

 

[Kepler]

I can't say with certainty but from what I have seen he was never in that crowd. When he was still cardinal of Argentina he showed support for civil unions then too i believe. Dude's a Jesuit. From what I do know about Jesuits they tend to be less derpy and hate filled. But I'm a lapsed catholic turned atheist so I haven't followed it to close.

He's better than Benedict, which is like saying Vader is better than Palpatine, but he's still cray.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

He's better than Benedict, which is like saying Vader is better than Palpatine, but he's still cray.

One thing at a time. Remember, several Church astronomers agreed with Copernicus and Galileo, but the muckety-mucks in charge needed time to figure out how to fit the heliocentric model into the context of the Bible so that the Great Unwashed wouldn't be suddenly awakened to its many contradictions.

 

[French Rage]

I can't say with certainty but from what I have seen he was never in that crowd. When he was still cardinal of Argentina he showed support for civil unions then too i believe. Dude's a Jesuit. From what I do know about Jesuits they tend to be less derpy and hate filled. But I'm a lapsed catholic turned atheist so I haven't followed it to close.

Plus I recall his attitude on gays/lesbians in some speeches being that while the Bible is not in support of it, it's not his job to go after them for it, that's between them and God. Yes that's far short of anything approaching advocating for gay rights, but it's still a notable step forward. Low bar to cross and all, but shouldn't be 100% ignored.

 

[burd]

Plus I recall his attitude on gays/lesbians in some speeches being that while the Bible is not in support of it, it's not his job to go after them for it, that's between them and God. Yes that's far short of anything approaching advocating for gay rights, but it's still a notable step forward. Low bar to cross and all, but shouldn't be 100% ignored.

Leave them to heaven, and to those thorns that in their bosoms lodge to prick and sting them.

 

[Kepler]

One thing at a time. Remember, several Church astronomers agreed with Copernicus and Galileo, but the muckety-mucks in charge needed time to figure out how to fit the heliocentric model into the context of the Bible so that the Great Unwashed wouldn't be suddenly awakened to its many contradictions.

Although this is the opposite. Fifty years after Copernicus everybody with the least amount of sense was a heliocentrist (note: which is still wrong, as the Sun is not the center of the universe), but the 99% were still behind and church authority depended upon them remaining faithful. In this case, almost everybody -- even many of the dullards -- have moved way past the church position, but it is still hanging on like grim death to its homophobia and even more to its despicable misogyny. This isn't an advance that an enlightened and intellectual church is delaying until the time is right, this is an anachronistic church trying desperately to turn back time to preserve garbage which unfortunately has been with it all the way back to the Patristic Fathers (but NOT, it should be underlined, to Jesus, who had no interest either in your plumbing or what/who you used it in).

 

[MissThundercat]

It's nice to know the Pope has advanced to 1998.

Call me when he joins us in this century.

 

[Kepler]

It's nice to know the Pope has advanced to 1998.

Call me when he joins us in this century.

IIRC the Catholic Church apologized for persecuting the Jews in the 1400s in 1965.

So I'd say they're galloping.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

It's nice to know the Pope has advanced to 1998.

Call me when he joins us in this century.

Civil unions = "Separate, but equal". So really, this just moves the Church up to about 1950.

As Kep pointed out, if history is any indication, I expect the Third Vatican Council to address this sometime around 2150.