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Question on Recruiting

Re: Question on Recruiting

My sympathies to your D, but there is more to learn at college than just what's in the text books. This is definitely one life lesson that's going to be tough no matter her decision.
 
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Re: Question on Recruiting

I usually agree with Hux but I can't on this one! Way to go RStarr:D ! Sorry gang - family, school, athletics.

To me this also centers on the coach. He / she said yes then changed their mind? Hello - what kind of message is this sending. They could have even said give me a couple of days to think about. Mixed messages are NOT good.

Someone also mentioned the other players. I'm guessing they are in 100% agreement with your daughter!

Good luck and have a great wedding!
 
Re: Question on Recruiting

I have to agree with Puck_bag. I guess if it were the playoffs or something, that might be different because the team would really be counting on her. BUT, girls miss for all sorts of reasons (play other sports, injury, illness, etc.) I don't think a coach would pressure a truly sick or injured girl to play, so what's the big deal? Not like she told him today that she won't be there next week. There is plenty of time to plan.

I was a D-1 college athlete, and even though it was only 17 years ago, I can't remember if I was there everytime (I assume I was, but I did have a death in my family and once missed school for my grandparents 70th Anniversary, so I could have missed sports too). And, I certainly don't remember if any of my teammates ever missed. What I did take from playing D-1 sports was the organizational skills it required me to compete and keep up with my school work, working with others on a team, and the desire to compete at my highest level in sports and in life. The commitment to one's team is important, but that is just one aspect and in the future whether or not someone misses one game won't be remembered or matter in life....but, if someone misses a wedding, I suspect they will regret it forever.
 
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Re: Question on Recruiting

Just what do you think the response would be from your daughter's coaches were they to pop a "I need to miss a game" question on them. I know one of them would say "there is the door, don't let it hit ya in the butt on the way out."

As I said, the coach signed off, so there should be no consequences. However, the question should never have been asked in the first place. As a student-athlete you make a commitment to the team, and all it entails, from the moment the team calender starts until it ends. Missing a game for anything other than a serious familial illness/funeral is not acceptable. Plain and simple.

I'm sorry, but this isn't youth hockey. Frankly, I'm pretty tired of all the kumbaya mentality that goes on these days. Regardless of whether it is D1 or DIII, these girls are adults now, and they need to realize their obligations and stand by their commitments.
I happen to know of a coach who had this "don't let the door smack you in the ***" attitude towards a player who actually stayed with her team for playoffs rather than attend Grandma's funeral just so the coach wouldn't have the wrong impression about dedication and commitment...all it got her was...well, nothing. Everyone, including the coach, knew the team wasn't going to progress past the first round. And now she regrets not going to the funeral.
 
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Re: Question on Recruiting

College coaches are not blindsided by their National team players or contenders. At least in my experiences, the college coaches are in pretty close communication with the National team coaching staff and the players involved. Thus they are aware well in advance of the season what dates they may lose player x or y, (or in the case of Wisco, players m - z:eek: )
They can schedule games around those players if they feel it's prudent.

Furthermore, having and developing national caliber players is as good a recruiting tool as there is, so why would they discourage it? Small sacrifice for the gain of the individual player, the team and the program.

Obviously I am not advocating that national team players be expected to miss out on these opportunities to fulfill "the commitment they made to their D1 team". And I agree that the inconvenience has compensation in recruiting.

My point in bringing up this example was that you cannot deny someone to go to a once-in-a-lifetime family event simply for the reason "they made a commitment to their D1 team and they would be letting their team down". You have already shown there are exceptions that are made for players in extenuating circumstances.

Yes, it is true that often the dates of national team events may be known further in advance and could potentially be planned around to some extent, though it is still likely the team would suffer more from those players absences.

However, you seem to suggest in your other post that "thoughtful" family members would plan weddings only outside of hockey season. This is quite laughable, as few even among hockey fanatics like me, would remotely consider playing in a hockey game of equal importance to a wedding day. And if everyone planning an event for 50, 100 or 200+ people scheduled to accommodate everyone's conflicts, it could never happen in our lifetime! Heck, we can never get full attendance for a family gift exchange and dinner every Christmas for <15 people!

The reality is that every family has members with diverse interests and schedules. Not waiting to marry when there is no hockey game is NOT thoughtless...expecting major life events to have to play second fiddle to someone else's hockey schedule definitely IS!

Speaking of thoughtless...those that schedule national team events should be far more aware and appreciative of D1 commitments and schedules than any extended family could ever be expected to--as well as having far less diversity of divergent interests and conflicts versus most families to have to schedule around as well ....but I digress

My main point is that you can choose to look at commitments as rigid and absolute, and any exceptions as a problem for the team, a letdown to the team to be avoided at all costs. Or, you can look at it as an opportunity for the team--to support one player under those extenuating circumstances whatever they may be, and provide other players with the opportunity to increase their role on the team with the additional ice time available under the circumstances. Could just end up being a win/win all around...not even mentioning the vast improvements in family relations.
 
Re: Question on Recruiting

My point in bringing up this example was that you cannot deny someone to go to a once-in-a-lifetime family event simply for the reason "they made a commitment to their D1 team and they would be letting their team down". You have already shown there are exceptions that are made for players in extenuating circumstances.

Sure you can, especially at the D1 level. Lets get real people. You ***** about tryouts, you ***** about roster sizes, and you ***** about playing time, but you believe Janey should be able to blow off a commitment for a "once in a lifetime family event."

Give me a break. If you decide you are going to play college athletics the athletics takes precedence over pretty much everything, including shotgun weddings, weddings planned two years in advance, and made for television weddings.

However, you seem to suggest in your other post that "thoughtful" family members would plan weddings only outside of hockey season. This is quite laughable, as few even among hockey fanatics like me, would remotely consider playing in a hockey game of equal importance to a wedding day. And if everyone planning an event for 50, 100 or 200+ people scheduled to accommodate everyone's conflicts, it could never happen in our lifetime! Heck, we can never get full attendance for a family gift exchange and dinner every Christmas for <15 people!

True, you obviously can't plan around everyone's schedule, but you can certainly plan around immediate family if there is going to be a known conflict. If you have a sibling that plays a college sport you can very easily (ok, maybe not very easily given the demands for prime dates at churches and facilities) take into account that that person is going to be tied up during the season. If you want that person to be able to attend you plan out of season, otherwise don't expect that person to be there. And don't put them in a position where they have to stress over not being able to attend.

The reality is that every family has members with diverse interests and schedules. Not waiting to marry when there is no hockey game is NOT thoughtless...expecting major life events to have to play second fiddle to someone else's hockey schedule definitely IS!

Very true. So don't plan on them being there. Especially when they are scholarship athletes. They are being paid to play, not to attend weddings, bar/bat mitvahs, recitals, etc.


Yes, it is true that often the dates of national team events may be known further in advance and could potentially be planned around to some extent, though it is still likely the team would suffer more from those players absences......

Speaking of thoughtless...those that schedule national team events should be far more aware and appreciative of D1 commitments and schedules than any extended family could ever be expected to--as well as having far less diversity of divergent interests and conflicts versus most families to have to schedule around as well ....but I digress

True enough, but it is the nature of the game. Hockey Canada is the worst, scheduling camps during the first week or two of school. USA Hockey takes schooling into account, and is one of the reasons why the US does not participate in the U22 tourney in January.

My main point is that you can choose to look at commitments as rigid and absolute, and any exceptions as a problem for the team, a letdown to the team to be avoided at all costs. Or, you can look at it as an opportunity for the team--to support one player under those extenuating circumstances whatever they may be, and provide other players with the opportunity to increase their role on the team with the additional ice time available under the circumstances. Could just end up being a win/win all around...not even mentioning the vast improvements in family relations.

Oh, that is a kumbaya statement if I ever saw one. :rolleyes:

Win/win? You can't be serious. Yeah, lets just let the inmates run the assylum. What are you thinking?

Since when is hockey, or any sport for that matter, a plug and play event? Teams spend the week, and all season, preparing for competition based on line combinations, special teams, and match-ups. So every week you will have the likelihood of a player being out so they can attend "a once in a lifetime" event, not to mention the likelihood of injury, or illness. Makes for real good chemistry, eh.

Yup, I can see that as a real win/win. Of course, there will even be a thread where folks can post their need for Coach X to have his head put on a platter because the team can't seem to find any rhythm and continues to lose.

You want to be able to take time off to attend to family events? Fine, go play intramurals, where commitment isn't required.
 
Re: Question on Recruiting

Geez, was there something in that whoopie pie I gave you last night?

Let it all out, big guy!!! Don't hold back, tell us what you really think! :eek:
 
Re: Question on Recruiting

Well reasoned arguments Hux but in the end I think you are putting too much emphasis on commitment to a sport, it is after all just a game. After your four years are done you are done and what are you left with? A degree, great memories, the rest of your life and your family.

A life altering event is one that should be shared by a family. Would you have missed any such event in your own family for a work commitment that was not really life and death? I know I wouldn't and I'll bet you wouldn't either. Is one hockey game a life and death situation? Not really but your sister's marriage is.

I've played hockey at this level and there were lots of times when people missed games for important family events. The Pros do it, hell even Hockey Canada does it and we all know how considerate they can be.

As to the D1 tryout thread you referenced the guy that started that thread needs to get a grip on the realities of any sport at this level. You are only as good as your last game and if a team hopes to improve then it needs to find players that will deliver what is needed. The problem he has and that many players have is a sense of entitlement that says, "Yah I was recruited and I am set for life." Players need to keep working, if not the team dies as has been demonstrated by the situation at Brown. This thinking should also apply at the coaching level but here too there is a sense of entitlement by certain coaches. It is time for a change at Brown as it appears that the players have stopped listening to the message.

The Prof.

P.S. OnMAA, congrats to your daughter on her good news, also to daughter #1's Shoot Out win on Saturday. Must have been nice not to travel too far to see the game. If you and Trillium need maps to the Tim's south of the border I know where they all are as I have been to them all in my travels to games to watch my daughter play. Remember to order a size down from your usual!

Hux, Christmas in Barrie, then the Mississagua Tournament or will the Shamrocks not let you have the time off given your commitment to them?
 
Re: Question on Recruiting

While I think that an athlete's commitment is not something to be taken lightly, a family wedding is a lifetime event an d exceptions should be made to allow an athlete to attend.
Remember an athlete gets an education, but the school also gets exposure from athletics. I agree that some of todays youth do not get the meaning of following through on a commitment. That is not a good thing either. But missing a single game for a siblings wedding is not that big of a deal IMHO.
In some instances Pro athletes are allowed to miss practices for personal reasons. They occasionally miss games for the birth of a child or a bereavement. The other main life events are weddings. I vote let the player go
 
Re: Question on Recruiting

P.S. OnMAA, congrats to your daughter on her good news, also to daughter #1's Shoot Out win on Saturday. Must have been nice not to travel too far to see the game. If you and Trillium need maps to the Tim's south of the border I know where they all are as I have been to them all in my travels to games to watch my daughter play. Remember to order a size down from your usual!

Hux, Christmas in Barrie, then the Mississagua Tournament or will the Shamrocks not let you have the time off given your commitment to them?

Thanks Prof. Yes it was nice to have a game close to home for a change, and that shootout win was the icing on the cake. Great start to an exciting week. Heading to BC this afternoon. :) Already scoped out the various Tim's during our college tour excursions. It was part of the selection criteria :) :) :)
 
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Re: Question on Recruiting

There is a new one in Cortland NY just off of 81. No sign on 81, my wife and I came across it by accident getting gas on our way to our cottage. It is the first exit, southbound, for Cortland not the Homer exit.

Enjoy BC.
 
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Re: Question on Recruiting

Hux, Christmas in Barrie, then the Mississagua Tournament or will the Shamrocks not let you have the time off given your commitment to them?

I'm only "consulting", and not on the road with the Shamrocks this year as I took a bit of a ding to the business last season. Given the economy I figured I'd better pay it a bit more attention on the weekends.

As for Barrie, that was always after Christmas, and sometimes New Years, depending on whether my youth teams had games that weekend or not. I was the head coach after all. ;)
 
Re: Question on Recruiting

There is a new one in Cortland NY just off of 81. No sign on 81, my wife and I came across it by accident getting gas on our way to our cottage. It is the first exit, southbound, for Cortland not the Homer exit.

Enjoy BC.

Have already been at that one. There are a few new ones in Orange Country as well (on the way to Colgate). The trusted GPS Timmy download mechanism at work. :)
 
Re: Question on Recruiting

There is a new one in Cortland NY just off of 81. No sign on 81, my wife and I came across it by accident getting gas on our way to our cottage. It is the first exit, southbound, for Cortland not the Homer exit.

.

Already been there :D :D

And already know of all the Timmy's in NY, RI, CT, OH & MI too.

But I'm not addicted, really.:o
 
Re: Question on Recruiting

Already been there :D :D

And already know of all the Timmy's in NY, RI, CT, OH & MI too.

But I'm not addicted, really.:o

Do tell, where are the Timmy's in the NY area. I try and get my fix whenever I can. I freely admit that I am addicted. There is no coffee better, although Green Mountain Coffee comes the closest.
 
Re: Question on Recruiting

Do tell, where are the Timmy's in the NY area. I try and get my fix whenever I can. I freely admit that I am addicted. There is no coffee better, although Green Mountain Coffee comes the closest.

Most of the NY timmys are in upstate NY (Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse areas), but a quick search reveals at least 10 in the Manhattan area.

Here is a handy dandy tool to look them up for your timmy fix:
http://www.timhortons.com/ca/locator/index.html
 
Re: Question on Recruiting

Sure you can, especially at the D1 level. Lets get real people. You ***** about tryouts, you ***** about roster sizes, and you ***** about playing time, but you believe Janey should be able to blow off a commitment for a "once in a lifetime family event."

QUOTE]

Actually it looks like you & DC are the lone voices in the wilderness on this issue.

I do recall in the past where my daughter's head coach missed over two weeks during the season, to get married and take a honeymoon (Really, what was he THINKING??), and another's head coach missed an important tournament to attend his good friend's wedding. The world didn't end, the teams won their tournaments regardless, and both teams had successful seasons with no dearth of commitment or chemistry shown amongst either team as a result.

The importance of honouring commitments is very well-ingrained in my children. But the reality is that sometimes those commitments will inevitably conflict throughout their lives, as any elite level athlete has already learned. I hope most of all that our kids learn the lesson that when hard choices need to be made, showing loyalty to family and close friends by instead honouring commitments made to them, is neither a weakness or a shirking of responsibility to apologize or feel guilty for.

Anyone who becomes conditioned to believe that work commitments automatically need to trump everything else no matter what, may have an high level of commitment and work ethic, but is also someone with more troubling personal character issues. Having a strong personal support system to rely on is important too. Work will come and go throughout your life, but your loved ones will continue to be there for you--if you attach sufficient time and importance to nurturing those relationships along the way. The key is finding the right balance between all aspects of your life.

If that's your idea of kumbaya, so be it. I have happy memories of singing around the campfire. But I've since been around long enough to know that, of those who chose to put all their commitment into only their work, a high proportion have ended up with exceptionally messed up lives outside of work (and usually screwed up kids)--and just as often still lost their jobs regardless.
 
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