Question on Recruiting

[Trillium]

Re: Question on Recruiting

Knowing that the event was to take place during the season, and on a game day no less, I would say that she is indeed letting her team down. Commitment seems to be a foreign concept to a lot of today's youth.

.

Seriously? You people take hockey WAY too seriously. One game versus attending the most important day in a loved one's life? What's to decide? If any team relies on any one player to that significant an extent that they cannot make do temporarily, it's not much of a team to begin with.

 

[Hux]

Re: Question on Recruiting

Seriously? You people take hockey WAY too seriously. One game versus attending the most important day in a loved one's life? What's to decide? If any team relies on any one player to that significant an extent that they cannot make do temporarily, it's not much of a team to begin with.

Just what do you think the response would be from your daughter's coaches were they to pop a "I need to miss a game" question on them. I know one of them would say "there is the door, don't let it hit ya in the butt on the way out."

As I said, the coach signed off, so there should be no consequences. However, the question should never have been asked in the first place. As a student-athlete you make a commitment to the team, and all it entails, from the moment the team calender starts until it ends. Missing a game for anything other than a serious familial illness/funeral is not acceptable. Plain and simple.

I'm sorry, but this isn't youth hockey. Frankly, I'm pretty tired of all the kumbaya mentality that goes on these days. Regardless of whether it is D1 or DIII, these girls are adults now, and they need to realize their obligations and stand by their commitments.

 

[leswp1]

Re: Question on Recruiting

Having to disagree here a bit. Absolutely isn't youth hockey but in 10 yrs which is going to be more important to the person- the wedding or a single hockey game? If these kids were professional players or even had a chance to move on to be professionals then maybe when they asked that question of themself the answer would be different. Most players even on the Men's side are never going to move on. They are going to live with their family for the rest of their life.

The loyalty to your team thing needs to be balanced by both the coach and the player. If the coach answered yes the first time one could postulate that the message he is sending the women is that he/she would be receptive to the question. Unless you know what the coach has developed as a culture on the team and his/her philosophy I think to make a blanket statement that one should give up an event like a wedding for a hockey game is well, what can I say?

 

[videohockey]

Re: Question on Recruiting

Just what do you think the response would be from your daughter's coaches were they to pop a "I need to miss a game" question on them. I know one of them would say "there is the door, don't let it hit ya in the butt on the way out."

As I said, the coach signed off, so there should be no consequences. However, the question should never have been asked in the first place. As a student-athlete you make a commitment to the team, and all it entails, from the moment the team calender starts until it ends. Missing a game for anything other than a serious familial illness/funeral is not acceptable. Plain and simple.

I'm sorry, but this isn't youth hockey. Frankly, I'm pretty tired of all the kumbaya mentality that goes on these days. Regardless of whether it is D1 or DIII, these girls are adults now, and they need to realize their obligations and stand by their commitments.

You have set your criteria - illness and/or death. Schools have their policies on these issues as well, and in this case it is much broader than yours, and I wouldn't doubt the NCAA has a paragraph on this somewhere.

This was not a foreseeable conflict. The life lesson here is in the face of the decision the athlete/young adult follows the proper channels to bring it to resolution, and also that there may be factors out of their control, including a change of opinion by those involved.

Stand by your commitments, and commitment to family is much more important. Nothing kumbaya about it.

 

[RStarr]

Re: Question on Recruiting

Just what do you think the response would be from your daughter's coaches were they to pop a "I need to miss a game" question on them. I know one of them would say "there is the door, don't let it hit ya in the butt on the way out."

As I said, the coach signed off, so there should be no consequences. However, the question should never have been asked in the first place. As a student-athlete you make a commitment to the team, and all it entails, from the moment the team calender starts until it ends. Missing a game for anything other than a serious familial illness/funeral is not acceptable. Plain and simple.

I'm sorry, but this isn't youth hockey. Frankly, I'm pretty tired of all the kumbaya mentality that goes on these days. Regardless of whether it is D1 or DIII, these girls are adults now, and they need to realize their obligations and stand by their commitments.

Boo Hux, BOO!!! Bad answer!!!

Talk about a hypocrite....the coach could barley "commit" to her original answer for two days yet she expects some sort of uber commitment from the player? Please. MANY D1 coaches have MUCH to be desired....this is a prime example. Lead by example. End of story.

Maybe the coach should see the door...and not let it hit her in the *** on the way out.

 

[ARM]

Re: Question on Recruiting

I'm sorry, but this isn't youth hockey.

It isn't. Neither is it the armed services, nor any other vocation where lives are at stake and the greater public is depending on you. Why does the game and team exist? For the players. In the case of women's college hockey, if you answer with anything else, I believe you to be wrong. It isn't so the coach can have a job. It isn't so the school can hang banners and display trophies. It certainly isn't so fools like me can write about something other than politics. The team exists to enrich the collegiate experience for the players. If the teammates are wronged by the player missing the game, then I could see it. In this case, I bet the team would say, "go", with their blessing.

 

[Trillium]

Re: Question on Recruiting

I'm sorry, but this isn't youth hockey. Frankly, I'm pretty tired of all the kumbaya mentality that goes on these days. Regardless of whether it is D1 or DIII, these girls are adults now, and they need to realize their obligations and stand by their commitments.

Kumbaya? In the grand scheme of things, hockey is a GAME, an extra-curricular activity, though I recognize at this level it is also a business. Regardless, learning how to BALANCE conflicting priorities is an important life skill, and in the grand scheme of things family obligations are important too. This individual had no control over the scheduling. So maybe you're one of those who also believes one should miss major life events of those close to you for various regular work commitments too? Sad.

National team players miss multiple games for their varsity teams regularly. Why is it then considered acceptable that they are exempt from "realizing their obligations and standing by their commitments" to their team, when their absence has an even greater impact on that team? Why do you not consider meeting important once in a lifetime (hopefully) family obligations of at least equal importance to hockey ones then?

And I also don't understand how you would think funerals are acceptable reasons but weddings are not: I guarantee no one would be the wiser if you missed their funeral, but would never forget that you missed their wedding.

My kids have never in their lifetimes missed hockey for any family event--yet. Like most, we have all sacrificed non-hockey social lives, attending family functions, and numerous other work and educational opportunities. We've even missed funeral visitations. We have driven many hours through snowstorms to make games we shouldn't have and risked our lives, only to find them cancelled often when we got there. I guarantee no one is more committed.

But I would draw the line at missing weddings of close family members. My kids have been blessed with being part of amazing teams year after year, so maybe we have been especially lucky: but based on our experiences, frankly I would be shocked if any team members expected their teammate to make such a sacrifice, or resented them for choosing to make that commitment to their family. A strong team is like a family, and is supportive and understanding of the needs of their teammates, both on and off the ice.

 

[xwildfan]

Re: Question on Recruiting

A similar situation came up with my daughter who plays D1 hockey. One of her sisters was getting married. She was also a former D1 athlete. They were thinking of a fall wedding. Because of both their past experiences as D1 scholarship athletes, they actually asked the coach for days that would least inconvenience the team. The coach came up with a window of days that would work and the wedding took place during that window. Everyone was happy. I think the key to our situation was that both my daughters were athletes and had some perspective from the coach's point of view; and the coach actually gave my daughter more days off to attend all the events associated with a wedding. Also helped that my daughter gave the coach a several month "heads-up."

 

[sufu3]

Re: Question on Recruiting

They must always dress 2 goalies no ifs and or butts, so if you are a goalie and your school only has 2, well do the math,
If you are playing D1 your ice time is based upon what the coach wants, equal ice or because it is your turn, more than likely is not going to happen in D1, I know of a few D3 programs that operated that way.

I figured out very quickly that basically from the day my D signed her NLI, she was not mine for 4 years lol

Even summer was limited due to academic needs,

...I suggest that it be understood that leaving during season, and for some even the off season, depending on the teams requirements for off ice, basically the end of aug - to end of apr, don/'t plan family events of any sort

This was why my D (yes, a goalie) wanted to go with a D3 program. She'd done the 10-12 mos./year travel programs, and wanted something that wasn't going to be a 48 mos. commitment.

This should be something your D keeps in mind, especially if she is one of the lucky ones who knows what she wants to major in. From what I've seen at the D3 level, it's not unusual for players to forgo their senior year playing because they are concentrating on classroom success for their "real world" future. This seems especially true for those in more intense fields like pre-med or engineering. If there's not going to be money offered (& athletic scholships are definately NOT a "free ride"), she should go with the school where she'll be happiest that passes the Broken Leg rule.

BTW, my D was lucky. She ended up with really just one school that fit her criteria that was also interested in her. The one thing I did do for her early in the process was to put together a spreadsheet of goalies at the D1 & D3 schools. That way she was able to see what programs kept their goalies, who preferred goalies from the land up North, and what teams were likely to have openings the year she was applying. Given that U19 programs cover three birth years, college covers four, and most college programs carry a max. of three goalies (& play just one!), there is always a surfeit of goalies vs. goalie openings.

For your goalie, looking at a school that adds two strong goalies the year ahead of her could well mean three years of catching splinters instead of pucks.

Best of luck, and do try to have her visit the schools she is seriously interested in - there's nothing like the on-the-ground feel of having been there and met the people.

 

[DC78-82]

Re: Question on Recruiting

As for the shotgun wedding: I am with Hux that when you make a committment to your team, you need to honor that to every extent possible. Death and serious illness/accident which raise the possibilty of losing (as opposed to in this instance, gaining) a loved one are exceptions. We talk all the time about the sacrifices these young women make just to get to the college level, and keep no secrets about how much further those sacrifices get ratcheted when you sign to play at the college level.

I think when the coach signed off on the trip, he/she should have stood by the decision. Rescinding permission to miss a team event after granting it indicates a certain level of thoughtlessness to me.

Speaking of thoughtlessness, I think the ultimate issue is with the relative who created this situation in the first place. If the player and her relative are that close, it seems to me the one who "played the game" before she made a committment to a soon-to-be little person should respect that her close relative also made a committment that she did put serious consideration into.

If I were the one with the impending shotgun nuptuals, despite the fact the player (with clear cut obligations that weekend) is choice #1, I hope I would respect her enough to send an announcement of the wedding with regrets that the necessary scheduling prohibits her from attending her special day, or find a different way for the player to participate without compromising her team or place within it.

In this day of technology - VideoHockey - have your D send a video of her best wishes, good luck...and have someone else toss the flowers.

 

[IceIsNice]

Re: Question on Recruiting

If I were the one with the impending shotgun nuptuals, ......

Something we don't know?

 

[DC78-82]

Re: Question on Recruiting

National team players miss multiple games for their varsity teams regularly. Why is it then considered acceptable that they are exempt from "realizing their obligations and standing by their commitments" to their team, when their absence has an even greater impact on that team? Why do you not consider meeting important once in a lifetime (hopefully) family obligations of at least equal importance to hockey ones then?

College coaches are not blindsided by their National team players or contenders. At least in my experiences, the college coaches are in pretty close communication with the National team coaching staff and the players involved. Thus they are aware well in advance of the season what dates they may lose player x or y, (or in the case of Wisco, players m - z )
They can schedule games around those players if they feel it's prudent.

Furthermore, having and developing national caliber players is as good a recruiting tool as there is, so why would they discourage it? Small sacrifice for the gain of the individual player, the team and the program.

 

[DC78-82]

Re: Question on Recruiting

Something we don't know?

Well I can be hypothetical, can't I?

Do the math - if I weren't. I'd have to get a stroller adapter for my walker

 

[videohockey]

Re: Question on Recruiting

As for the shotgun wedding: I am with Hux that when you make a committment to your team, you need to honor that to every extent possible. Death and serious illness/accident which raise the possibilty of losing (as opposed to in this instance, gaining) a loved one are exceptions. We talk all the time about the sacrifices these young women make just to get to the college level, and keep no secrets about how much further those sacrifices get ratcheted when you sign to play at the college level.

I think when the coach signed off on the trip, he/she should have stood by the decision. Rescinding permission to miss a team event after granting it indicates a certain level of thoughtlessness to me.

Speaking of thoughtlessness, I think the ultimate issue is with the relative who created this situation in the first place. If the player and her relative are that close, it seems to me the one who "played the game" before she made a committment to a soon-to-be little person should respect that her close relative also made a committment that she did put serious consideration into.

If I were the one with the impending shotgun nuptuals, despite the fact the player (with clear cut obligations that weekend) is choice #1, I hope I would respect her enough to send an announcement of the wedding with regrets that the necessary scheduling prohibits her from attending her special day, or find a different way for the player to participate without compromising her team or place within it.

In this day of technology - VideoHockey - have your D send a video of her best wishes, good luck...and have someone else toss the flowers.

We appreciate everyone's well-intentioned advice, however "what to do" is not an issue. That has been decided.

The discussion is rooted in the balancing act of hockey/academics/family events/etc.... In my D's case she made an inquiry and was granted permission. At that same time she learned that a friend of hers (just a senior in high school) had lost an 11 month battle to cancer. Such life events tend to give things a different perspective. Some here say she never should have asked. Some would say send a card or video (even for the funeral, after all it was no surprise ). Most have said family first - considerate or not. The point is finding that balance, a task that it appears most student-athletes have to take on.

On behalf of my D, thanks for the support and the discussion.

 

[RStarr]

Re: Question on Recruiting

I am with Hux

Figuratively or literally?

 

[IceIsNice]

Re: Question on Recruiting

I guess the reality is that these things are not always so cut and dry, and depend heavily on the chemistry that may or may not exist between the two folks involved (player / coach in this case).

In a situation that I consider completely analogous, I was working in a fairly well paying professional position when a conflict arose between a rather significant family event and the need to stay late (again, as I had been for several months) and work on a project. Without getting into the details, it was my opinion on this particular occasion that the company was not put in jeapordy by my opting to be there with my family.

My boss at the time did not agree, and so I missed the family event and fulfilled my commitment.......only to immediately update my resume` and leave the company 3 months later for a 10% pay cut with another organization where I felt my family/work life was more in balance.

This was not an easy decision at the time, much like the dilemma your daughter faces now. I suppose if she's not satisfied with her coaching relationship, then similarly there is always that "T" word. We don't hope for these things, but sometimes they become an appropriate and inevitable response.

 

[RStarr]

Re: Question on Recruiting

I guess the reality is that these things are not always so cut and dry, and depend heavily on the chemistry that may or may not exist between the two folks involved (player / coach in this case).

In a situation that I consider completely analogous, I was working in a fairly well paying professional position when a conflict arose between a rather significant family event and the need to stay late (again, as I had been for several months) and work on a project. Without getting into the details, it was my opinion on this particular occasion that the company was not put in jeapordy by my opting to be there with my family.

My boss at the time did not agree, and so I missed the family event and fulfilled my commitment.......only to immediately update my resume` and leave the company 3 months later for a 10% pay cut with another organization where I felt my family/work life was more in balance.

This was not an easy decision at the time, much like the dilemma your daughter faces now. I suppose if she's not satisfied with her coaching relationship, then similarly there is always that "T" word. We don't hope for these things, but sometimes they become an appropriate and inevitable response.

Quit trying to rosy is up Ice. You know that missing one game early on in the season is going to have detrimental and everlasting effects on the team. And you know darn well there aren't 20 other girls willing to pitch in and cover for one game. Whats wrong with you?

 

[IceIsNice]

Re: Question on Recruiting

Quit trying to rosy is up Ice. You know that missing one game early on in the season is going to have detrimental and everlasting effects on the team. And you know darn well there aren't 20 other girls willing to pitch in and cover for one game. Whats wrong with you?

Seems I have a rival for USCHO most bratty! BRING IT ON!!

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Question on Recruiting

I am with Hux.

Figuratively or literally?

Good one !

 

[DC78-82]

Re: Question on Recruiting

Figuratively or literally?

Literally - no - I'm at work, figuratively - later...
(There is a hockey game within 50 miles tonight

Hmmmmm - Will the Eagle soar above the dog of prey or lose yet another feather?????