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POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again
- Thread starter burd
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ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again
I think they have a case for arguing against new witnesses. They, however, do not have a case for blocking the evidence already collected.
I think they have a case for arguing against new witnesses. They, however, do not have a case for blocking the evidence already collected.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again
Nor do they have a case for disqualifying as "new" people who were blocked by the White House from testifying before the House.
Nor do they have a case for disqualifying as "new" people who were blocked by the White House from testifying before the House.
Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again
Something bigger is going on here because this isn't a good look. Acquittal is a done deal no matter what so Itch's primary concern is protecting his Senate majority. Conducting a sham trial against the wishes of the vast majority of the public (~70%) who want witnesses and evidence presented doesn't help Gardner, Collins, McSally, Tillis, etc - it does the opposite.
So, what's up? If I had to guess, it looks like the GOP Senate is trying to avoid witnesses at all costs, starting with Bolton who's kinda hard to paint as a liberal. They tried last week to float the "we'll call Hunter Biden" schtick, but when you think about it, who cares if they do? Dems will immediately counter with "lets hear from Rudy Giuliani then" and that's where all hell breaks loose.
Instead the plan seems to be to stop the proceedings one step BEFORE the calling of witnesses, which is to say there's been no evidence presented to no need to call anybody. Illogical as all you know what, but if they've resorted to playing that card that means whatever Bolton's about to say is really, really damaging. So you take your pick, outrage over a show trial or outrage over ****ing public testimony? Seems like they've chosen the former.
Something bigger is going on here because this isn't a good look. Acquittal is a done deal no matter what so Itch's primary concern is protecting his Senate majority. Conducting a sham trial against the wishes of the vast majority of the public (~70%) who want witnesses and evidence presented doesn't help Gardner, Collins, McSally, Tillis, etc - it does the opposite.
So, what's up? If I had to guess, it looks like the GOP Senate is trying to avoid witnesses at all costs, starting with Bolton who's kinda hard to paint as a liberal. They tried last week to float the "we'll call Hunter Biden" schtick, but when you think about it, who cares if they do? Dems will immediately counter with "lets hear from Rudy Giuliani then" and that's where all hell breaks loose.
Instead the plan seems to be to stop the proceedings one step BEFORE the calling of witnesses, which is to say there's been no evidence presented to no need to call anybody. Illogical as all you know what, but if they've resorted to playing that card that means whatever Bolton's about to say is really, really damaging. So you take your pick, outrage over a show trial or outrage over ****ing public testimony? Seems like they've chosen the former.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
He won't do that...and even if he tried he couldn't do that. He is a worthless lying dinosaur.
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again
what’s up with HIS HAIR?!?!?!?,
what’s up with HIS HAIR?!?!?!?,
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again
Last I heard they were going to put a kill switch in the rules where the defense could move for immediate dismissal at any time by simple majority.
Last I heard they were going to put a kill switch in the rules where the defense could move for immediate dismissal at any time by simple majority.
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ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again
Again. I think they can prevent witnesses and have an argument. But, they're blocking evidence already in the record AND they're ignoring what is in the public domain (been reported since the impeachment was passed by the House).
I don't see how they can get away with that.
Again. I think they can prevent witnesses and have an argument. But, they're blocking evidence already in the record AND they're ignoring what is in the public domain (been reported since the impeachment was passed by the House).
I don't see how they can get away with that.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again
The way they "get away with it" is:
1. R Senators vote as a bloc Not Guilty without listening to a word.
2. Fox and Hate Radio blare lies 24/7 to their orcs who hear nothing else.
See also: everything else McConnell has gotten away with for the last 3 years.
People keep acting like objective factual reality has its own gravity. It doesn't. Like sunlight, it can't get in if you block it off. The Fake World the Republicans have put together is even more stable than the real world because none of its premises ever change. Whereas reality is ever shifting, Republican World is a stone fortress. As such it's a far more comfortable place for the authoritarians and cowards of the right to live. It's unassailable, and from it they can smugly change the real facts of everyone's world with their actions. They've found a way to leverage reality without being caught up in the consequences. In principle there's nothing to stop them from doing it forever. It's far more effective than any previously attempted dictatorship because it appears to be completely democratic. It uses brainwashing instead of physical coercion, which is cheaper and doesn't leave bodies all over the place. It's kind of perfect.
The way they "get away with it" is:
1. R Senators vote as a bloc Not Guilty without listening to a word.
2. Fox and Hate Radio blare lies 24/7 to their orcs who hear nothing else.
See also: everything else McConnell has gotten away with for the last 3 years.
People keep acting like objective factual reality has its own gravity. It doesn't. Like sunlight, it can't get in if you block it off. The Fake World the Republicans have put together is even more stable than the real world because none of its premises ever change. Whereas reality is ever shifting, Republican World is a stone fortress. As such it's a far more comfortable place for the authoritarians and cowards of the right to live. It's unassailable, and from it they can smugly change the real facts of everyone's world with their actions. They've found a way to leverage reality without being caught up in the consequences. In principle there's nothing to stop them from doing it forever. It's far more effective than any previously attempted dictatorship because it appears to be completely democratic. It uses brainwashing instead of physical coercion, which is cheaper and doesn't leave bodies all over the place. It's kind of perfect.
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ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again
I hope #1 happens and I hope it costs them even more than Arizona, Colorado, and Maine.
I hope #1 happens and I hope it costs them even more than Arizona, Colorado, and Maine.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again
Welp, that's The Plan. "We replaced the democratic government of the country with a fascist tyranny. Let's see if anyone notices."
Welp, that's The Plan. "We replaced the democratic government of the country with a fascist tyranny. Let's see if anyone notices."
Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again
Odd when Kep is the pessimist and Scooby is the voice of reason.
The GOP "gets away with it" when elections are held on their turf. That's not the case in 2020 for the Senate as they have to defend vulnerable incumbents in either Dem leaning (CO, ME) or swing states (AZ, NC). The best thing the GOP could do is agree to one witness: Bolton, and hope that he either screws the Dems with lackluster testimony or even if he does reveal or corroborate ****ing info they can try to spin it as "well, you know, treason isn't technically a crime" and hope for the best.
Either way the point remains. If there was nothing to see, Itch would allow a full trial and laugh his arse off when nothing came of it. He's not putting his own Senators in a bad position for re-election for some marginal benefit to Chump. He's doing it because the alternative must be much, much worse.
Odd when Kep is the pessimist and Scooby is the voice of reason.
The GOP "gets away with it" when elections are held on their turf. That's not the case in 2020 for the Senate as they have to defend vulnerable incumbents in either Dem leaning (CO, ME) or swing states (AZ, NC). The best thing the GOP could do is agree to one witness: Bolton, and hope that he either screws the Dems with lackluster testimony or even if he does reveal or corroborate ****ing info they can try to spin it as "well, you know, treason isn't technically a crime" and hope for the best.
Either way the point remains. If there was nothing to see, Itch would allow a full trial and laugh his arse off when nothing came of it. He's not putting his own Senators in a bad position for re-election for some marginal benefit to Chump. He's doing it because the alternative must be much, much worse.
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again
Gotta be wearing depends here (not just for people with bladder control problems).
Gotta be wearing depends here (not just for people with bladder control problems).
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again
I think about all we can do is to keep saying, "yes, denying witnesses the chance to speak is exactly how an innocent man behaves." That resonates. Even the hopeless Dumpies at my work don't like that.
Odd when Kep is the pessimist and Scooby is the voice of reason.
The GOP "gets away with it" when elections are held on their turf. That's not the case in 2020 for the Senate as they have to defend vulnerable incumbents in either Dem leaning (CO, ME) or swing states (AZ, NC). The best thing the GOP could do is agree to one witness: Bolton, and hope that he either screws the Dems with lackluster testimony or even if he does reveal or corroborate ****ing info they can try to spin it as "well, you know, treason isn't technically a crime" and hope for the best.
Either way the point remains. If there was nothing to see, Itch would allow a full trial and laugh his arse off when nothing came of it. He's not putting his own Senators in a bad position for re-election for some marginal benefit to Chump. He's doing it because the alternative must be much, much worse.
I think about all we can do is to keep saying, "yes, denying witnesses the chance to speak is exactly how an innocent man behaves." That resonates. Even the hopeless Dumpies at my work don't like that.
Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again
I like using "Why don't you want to hear from John Bolton? Isn't he one of yours?"
I like using "Why don't you want to hear from John Bolton? Isn't he one of yours?"
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: POTUS: It Can Happen Here Again
Looks like Itch had to cave a little...
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-impeachment-trial-01-21-20/
He's not doing this out of the kindness of his own heart...
Looks like Itch had to cave a little...
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-impeachment-trial-01-21-20/
He's not doing this out of the kindness of his own heart...
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