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POTUS Elect Trump II: We Are So Totally F%*#ed
- Thread starter dxmnkd316
- Start date
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St. Clown
Ideas Posted are Likely Not My Own
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: We Are So Totally F%*#ed
Logical argument or not, it doesn't matter. My little piece of advice isn't predicated upon the other party being logical, it's upon simple human emotion. As soon as you tell people their ideas are stupid they immediately put up their defenses, sometimes they lash out. So your "*ing stupid" retort will only force that person into entrenching their argument with something else. Convincing each individual person through making logical arguments isn't something you can generalize and requires a whole host of different approaches.
Logical argument or not, it doesn't matter. My little piece of advice isn't predicated upon the other party being logical, it's upon simple human emotion. As soon as you tell people their ideas are stupid they immediately put up their defenses, sometimes they lash out. So your "*ing stupid" retort will only force that person into entrenching their argument with something else. Convincing each individual person through making logical arguments isn't something you can generalize and requires a whole host of different approaches.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: We Are So Totally F%*#ed
This is advice worth taking.
FWIW, I vent my spleen here, but when I'm talking to anybody I want to reach I'm always very polite and spend more time listening than speaking. Conservatives have been trained by talk radio to think every liberal is a bigoted irrational hothead who wants to take their guns and turn their daughters Muslim-lezbean, so in a way Rush et al. are doing my job for me just by being so obviously clueless about what liberals are really like.
As for gently turning the discussion to logic and outcomes rather than thought-terminating cliches, sometimes the wheels turn, sometimes they don't, but St. Clown is absolutely right that unless you go into each interaction managing the emotional sensitivities of your dialog partner, you won't get anywhere. Plus you should always have your mind open enough that new information or a new perspective informs your own opinion. Growth isn't just one-way.
Having said which, there are people who are hopeless, and after a lot of agita I've learned just to steer clear of them. They're never going to change, nothing I can say will ever penetrate the shell their ideological programmers have trapped them in, and it's a waste of my time to go near that.
This is advice worth taking.
FWIW, I vent my spleen here, but when I'm talking to anybody I want to reach I'm always very polite and spend more time listening than speaking. Conservatives have been trained by talk radio to think every liberal is a bigoted irrational hothead who wants to take their guns and turn their daughters Muslim-lezbean, so in a way Rush et al. are doing my job for me just by being so obviously clueless about what liberals are really like.
As for gently turning the discussion to logic and outcomes rather than thought-terminating cliches, sometimes the wheels turn, sometimes they don't, but St. Clown is absolutely right that unless you go into each interaction managing the emotional sensitivities of your dialog partner, you won't get anywhere. Plus you should always have your mind open enough that new information or a new perspective informs your own opinion. Growth isn't just one-way.
Having said which, there are people who are hopeless, and after a lot of agita I've learned just to steer clear of them. They're never going to change, nothing I can say will ever penetrate the shell their ideological programmers have trapped them in, and it's a waste of my time to go near that.
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Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: We Are So Totally F%*#ed
Her problem is whenever she editorializes it's both unpleasant and wildly inept. I'm sure she's very smart, but she's one of those people where when they leave the solidity of the Fact Landmass they drown in the Sea of Opinionated Stupidity.
Her problem is whenever she editorializes it's both unpleasant and wildly inept. I'm sure she's very smart, but she's one of those people where when they leave the solidity of the Fact Landmass they drown in the Sea of Opinionated Stupidity.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: We Are So Totally F%*#ed
And yet you reply to flaggy...?
I'm sort of half joking, but really I guess I'm not.
And yet you reply to flaggy...?
I'm sort of half joking, but really I guess I'm not.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: We Are So Totally F%*#ed
Wouldn't be the first person to die becalmed in punditry after having a good career doing fact-based work. David Brooks. Thomas Friedman. Heck, even Irving Kristol if you want to go back that far.
Wouldn't be the first person to die becalmed in punditry after having a good career doing fact-based work. David Brooks. Thomas Friedman. Heck, even Irving Kristol if you want to go back that far.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: We Are So Totally F%*#ed
I actually quit the Cafe for 18 months because it was torquing me up. I only came back after I'd learned that this place is pure entertainment. I'll debunk Fish and Flag here for kicks; in real life I would not stop to p-ss on them.
I actually quit the Cafe for 18 months because it was torquing me up. I only came back after I'd learned that this place is pure entertainment. I'll debunk Fish and Flag here for kicks; in real life I would not stop to p-ss on them.
Jimjamesak
Already insane, UAA making it worse
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: We Are So Totally F%*#ed
I get the sentiment, that we need to have an open mind and learn and grow and all that. That's fine. Problem is, for those in my age bracket and younger, we've dealt with this conservative doctrine inundation (and yes, despite the wishes of many older folk this is the modern definition of conservative) our whole lives and the election of Trump has forced many of us to a breaking point. We're sick of it. It's been the same end around arguments for our whole lives and we're sick of it. We've just seen confirmation that many in this country do not want to listen to reason or logic or even basic common sense and we're done. * em. At this point, their ways are so entrenched that the fear of calling them stupid and having them entrench themselves is pointless. How much further entrenched in their own stupidity can they get? They're like addicts, we've tried to help them and they won't listen. Next step is to cut them off and hope they don't kill too many other people until they've reached an amount of suffering that they're willing to change. Until then, they're just *ing stupid.
FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: We Are So Totally F%*#ed
If people our age are so sick of it, why didn't they hold their noses and vote for Hillary like you and I did, instead of sitting at home and grousing about how Bernie got screwed?
If people our age are so sick of it, why didn't they hold their noses and vote for Hillary like you and I did, instead of sitting at home and grousing about how Bernie got screwed?
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: We Are So Totally F%*#ed
I know a lot of Bernie supporters. I do not know a single one who stayed home. We all voted for Hillary; a lot of us campaigned for her.
I know a lot of Bernie supporters. I do not know a single one who stayed home. We all voted for Hillary; a lot of us campaigned for her.
Jimjamesak
Already insane, UAA making it worse
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: We Are So Totally F%*#ed
The ones I know? Principles. They'd spent countless energy trying to fight against the 1% as they saw it and couldn't justify voting for what they saw as the face of the 1%. Couple that with a belief that if America elected Trump then America deserves to suffer and you get what happened.
Spartanforlife4
Generic Catchy Message
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: We Are So Totally F%*#ed
Same. Quite a few people who went canvassing and phone banked for Bernie still flipped to Hillary. Maybe we just know the wrong Bernie Bros.
Same. Quite a few people who went canvassing and phone banked for Bernie still flipped to Hillary. Maybe we just know the wrong Bernie Bros.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: We Are So Totally F%*#ed
http://qklnk.co/GElkNq
This is good. I hope that link works.
http://qklnk.co/GElkNq
This is good. I hope that link works.
Spartanforlife4
Generic Catchy Message
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: We Are So Totally F%*#ed
I gave it a follow just for the profile pic.
I gave it a follow just for the profile pic.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Slap Shot
I got nothing
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: We Are So Totally F%*#ed
I've listened to Cuban wax politics several times. Man is quite bright, well spoken and reasoned. Nothing like what you might expect from watching cheer on the Mavericks.
I've listened to Cuban wax politics several times. Man is quite bright, well spoken and reasoned. Nothing like what you might expect from watching cheer on the Mavericks.
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