Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news
For the people who designed it, it did.
For the people who designed it, it did.
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POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news
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ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news
You mean the same people who almost destroyed the US Economy and Banking System? Yeah, they're some real geniuses. I guess Brownback is never going to be lacking for money so there's that.
You mean the same people who almost destroyed the US Economy and Banking System? Yeah, they're some real geniuses. I guess Brownback is never going to be lacking for money so there's that.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news
I'm saying if your goal is to distribute wealth from the middle class to the rich, Reaganomics has been your dream machine for 36 years and counting.
The US will continue to decline as long as those fiscal policies remain in place, but the US is not important to the people who benefit from trickle down. They're a multinational class who socks away its wealth in tax shelters. They are using the US taxpayer and labor force as a natural resource, and they use the US tax code as an extractive industry. When they've wrecked and impoverished the people they'll pull up stakes and leave the hollow husk to die.
I'm saying if your goal is to distribute wealth from the middle class to the rich, Reaganomics has been your dream machine for 36 years and counting.
The US will continue to decline as long as those fiscal policies remain in place, but the US is not important to the people who benefit from trickle down. They're a multinational class who socks away its wealth in tax shelters. They are using the US taxpayer and labor force as a natural resource, and they use the US tax code as an extractive industry. When they've wrecked and impoverished the people they'll pull up stakes and leave the hollow husk to die.
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Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news
Link doesn't go to the article. But I find it hard to believe that this is a neutral view; it appears quite GOP friendly. I would imagine taxes increase on importers. But so importing decreases. Everything bought at Walmart now cost 25% more but they still must get bought. This pushes up inflation and pushes down all products/services purchased. And its pushed down even further as our products stop selling overseas because of retaliation. The economy can't fare too well if everyone is purchasing less than they did before and that has an impact on both income from the markets (stock and commodity) and the economy in general. Although the world is a different place, this is identical in fact what happened in the depression. The difference is that we took these steps to try to revive a tough economy and made it much worse.
Link doesn't go to the article. But I find it hard to believe that this is a neutral view; it appears quite GOP friendly. I would imagine taxes increase on importers. But so importing decreases. Everything bought at Walmart now cost 25% more but they still must get bought. This pushes up inflation and pushes down all products/services purchased. And its pushed down even further as our products stop selling overseas because of retaliation. The economy can't fare too well if everyone is purchasing less than they did before and that has an impact on both income from the markets (stock and commodity) and the economy in general. Although the world is a different place, this is identical in fact what happened in the depression. The difference is that we took these steps to try to revive a tough economy and made it much worse.
Slap Shot
I got nothing
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news
Those words didn't mean what you think they did.
so BHO will be prom queen
Those words didn't mean what you think they did.
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news
Funny thing about sales taxes, which is essentially what the import portion of this tax plan is, is it's one of the few taxes that is mostly paid by the producers and not the consumers. It's as close to a fully backward-shifting cost as there is in business. Why is that so?
When a consumer goes to the market, that person has relatively set budget, and that person implicitly knows that s/he is willing to pay $10 for a widget. When applying a 5% tax, the state has placed much of the onus upon the retailer to either sell fewer widgets by excluding consumers who have that $10 marginal bracket, or reducing the price so that the total price comes in at or below the $10 mark.
With that said, yes, some of the sales tax is paid by the consumer when expanded to the entire basket of goods, it's not nearly to the degree that it appears on the surface. Economists have studied this tax at length, and it's mostly those non-essential, luxury-priced items and products with razor thin profit margins where the tax is least shifted back to the retailers, and by extension production companies of the goods. The luxury priced goods can soak in the tax for obvious reasons, but the razor-thin profit margin goods are for the very simple reason that the producers and retailers would have to stop carrying those goods if they were to also pay the sales tax. That's why we see food and clothing exempted from the sales tax in some (many?) states.
The biggest issue people tend to have with the sales tax is the surface appearance of going after poor people who can't afford it. It's an optics issue more than anything else.
How much of this holds up to the import tax will likely depend upon product sold.
Funny thing about sales taxes, which is essentially what the import portion of this tax plan is, is it's one of the few taxes that is mostly paid by the producers and not the consumers. It's as close to a fully backward-shifting cost as there is in business. Why is that so?
When a consumer goes to the market, that person has relatively set budget, and that person implicitly knows that s/he is willing to pay $10 for a widget. When applying a 5% tax, the state has placed much of the onus upon the retailer to either sell fewer widgets by excluding consumers who have that $10 marginal bracket, or reducing the price so that the total price comes in at or below the $10 mark.
With that said, yes, some of the sales tax is paid by the consumer when expanded to the entire basket of goods, it's not nearly to the degree that it appears on the surface. Economists have studied this tax at length, and it's mostly those non-essential, luxury-priced items and products with razor thin profit margins where the tax is least shifted back to the retailers, and by extension production companies of the goods. The luxury priced goods can soak in the tax for obvious reasons, but the razor-thin profit margin goods are for the very simple reason that the producers and retailers would have to stop carrying those goods if they were to also pay the sales tax. That's why we see food and clothing exempted from the sales tax in some (many?) states.
The biggest issue people tend to have with the sales tax is the surface appearance of going after poor people who can't afford it. It's an optics issue more than anything else.
How much of this holds up to the import tax will likely depend upon product sold.
Slap Shot
I got nothing
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news
Hmm. Typically increased import tariffs discourage foreign countries or businesses from trying to sell products to that country. This can lead to fewer choices which raises domestic prices and that does not exclude fruits and vegetables.
Here's a pretty in-depth look at Trump's proposal: Donald Trump has floated big tariffs. What could the impact be?
Hmm. Typically increased import tariffs discourage foreign countries or businesses from trying to sell products to that country. This can lead to fewer choices which raises domestic prices and that does not exclude fruits and vegetables.
Here's a pretty in-depth look at Trump's proposal: Donald Trump has floated big tariffs. What could the impact be?
E.J. Smith
New member
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news
Two people walk into a store to buy a toaster oven. The first person makes $500K/yr., the second makes $50K/yr. They each pay the same 5% Sales tax on the cost of the item. That 5% is a significantly greater percentage of the second person’s income than it is the first’s. That’s a regressive tax. Nothing you wrote above, and certainly nothing you speculated above, changes that.
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St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news
Depending upon the item, the store would charge 5% more for that same toaster had there been no sales tax at all. That's what economists have found through their data collections and statistical analyses. Nothing I said above or below is going to change that.
Depending upon the item, the store would charge 5% more for that same toaster had there been no sales tax at all. That's what economists have found through their data collections and statistical analyses. Nothing I said above or below is going to change that.
unofan
Well-known member
Nevertheless, the poor person pays more to the government as a percentage of their income than the rich person does.
Sounds to me like you're simply stating another reason that sales taxes suck, not refuting the fact that they are in fact regressive taxes by definition.
Slap Shot
I got nothing
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news
China Tells Trump's Fools, Want A Trade War? We'll Start By Targeting Republican States.
China Tells Trump's Fools, Want A Trade War? We'll Start By Targeting Republican States.
Jimjamesak
Already insane, UAA making it worse
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news
Uh targeting Boeing doesn't hurt Republican states, it basically destroys the economy in Washington (the state), a heavily Democratic state, and a heavily unionized workforce, also largely Democratic.
Uh targeting Boeing doesn't hurt Republican states, it basically destroys the economy in Washington (the state), a heavily Democratic state, and a heavily unionized workforce, also largely Democratic.
rufus
rock and roller
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news
They aren't "the owners". They're the JAHBS CREATORS!!!!!
They aren't "the owners". They're the JAHBS CREATORS!!!!!
E.J. Smith
New member
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news
With no data of my own, just common sense and personal observation, I find that assertion ludicrous. That 5% is just tacked on, market forces/competition should, and undoubtedly would, drive that out of the price. Or are the laws of supply and demand no longer a thing in economics?
Feel free to link to data on the effects of sales tax on the price elasticity of toaster ovens if you'd like to scratch that particular academic itch but as unofan has pointed out, none of that changes the fact that sales taxes are regressive. As in period, end of story.
With no data of my own, just common sense and personal observation, I find that assertion ludicrous. That 5% is just tacked on, market forces/competition should, and undoubtedly would, drive that out of the price. Or are the laws of supply and demand no longer a thing in economics?
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news
RIP Middle Class.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-...trump-repeat-kansas-mistakes?cid=sm_fb_maddow
RIP Middle Class.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-...trump-repeat-kansas-mistakes?cid=sm_fb_maddow
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news
can we start hearings on how jina is manipulating the us economy
can we start hearings on how jina is manipulating the us economy
aparch
Acetaminamerican
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news
Yep. And their headquarters are in downtown Chicago, the only democratic stranglehold in the Midwest.
Now, cutting the food imports, *that's* going to be the real kick to the nuts. Because all of a sudden these farmers are going to want to plant corn to get the Government subsidy for growing alternate fuel (ethanol). And Trump is totally against alternate fuel sources.
I'm starting to see Scooby's side of things. Fu** everyone else. If it doesn't effect me directly, 'eff em.
Yep. And their headquarters are in downtown Chicago, the only democratic stranglehold in the Midwest.
Now, cutting the food imports, *that's* going to be the real kick to the nuts. Because all of a sudden these farmers are going to want to plant corn to get the Government subsidy for growing alternate fuel (ethanol). And Trump is totally against alternate fuel sources.
I'm starting to see Scooby's side of things. Fu** everyone else. If it doesn't effect me directly, 'eff em.
aparch
Acetaminamerican
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news
So at this rate, they'll get to it in 2022.
Sure. Right after the same congressional hearing panel investigates how Russia influenced the election. Which will take place right after ANOTHER investigation into Hillary's e-mails. Which is right behind another MLB Anti-trust investigation. And just after an NFL concussion investigation. Another Benghazi investigation. A peek into Obamacare. Another MLB Anti-trust investigation. Another Hillary e-mail discussion. A review of "Deflate-gate." Another Hillary e-mail investigation. A quick review of Roe vs. Wade. Another Benghazi investigation. Another Hillary e-mail investigation. Another Benghazi investigation. Another Hillary e-mail investigation. Discussing Brown vs. Board of Education. And a look into the NFL's anti-trust laws.can we start hearings on how jina is manipulating the us economy
So at this rate, they'll get to it in 2022.
Spartanforlife4
Generic Catchy Message
Re: POTUS Elect Trump II: Lefties whining and regurgitating fake news
Darn fake news shows Trump didn't donate to his foundation for at least five years, paid multiple fines and used money on his own.
Some of this came out during the election, but this is a good summary.
Darn fake news shows Trump didn't donate to his foundation for at least five years, paid multiple fines and used money on his own.
Some of this came out during the election, but this is a good summary.
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