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POTUS Elect Trump I: Get in pu$$y - we're gonna make American great again

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Re: POTUS Elect Trump I: Get in pu$$y - we're gonna make American great again

aparch said:
It's too late. As Dan Rather eloquently puts it, we live in a "Post-Truth" world. Don't like the truth? Find some whack answer that actually fits your bias. Then shout the whack answer the loudest.
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Dan would be an expert on that
 
Re: POTUS Elect Trump I: Get in pu$$y - we're gonna make American great again

Rover said:
Too many? How about ALL of them. Even if it turns out they get something right, they most likely didn't take the time to confirm it before publishing.

The news media would have more credibility if they'd own up to their mistakes in the same way as the publish "scoops". The New York Times has a well documented history of a front page scoop with a page 30 retraction a week later. See, Judith Miller or anything Clinton related. Basically they leave the public ombudsman to take the flack, while never actually changing the way the paper operates.

60 Minutes is another good example. For their ridiculous Benghazi story where some guy claimed he went Rambo after he got the discredited "stand down" order and it turned out he was no where near the action which a simple phone call would have confirmed, they suspended the reporter for a few weeks then afterword she issued a lame non-apology at the end of a show two months later. Not good enough. Firing her immediately and then a full story about how they got duped by a guy promoting a book, right down to the part where Lara Logan didn't do her due diligence because she was banging the guy would have gotten them some credibility back. Now there's not much reason to believe anything they broadcast.
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There is no doubt that what we are experiencing in this country is a revisiting of the way news was delivered to the American people between about 1850 and 1920, or thereabout. Except instead of penny newspapers as the cheap delivery system it's the internet.

150 years ago there were thousands of little newspapers cranking out stories. To separate themselves from the others, they would turn to gossip, scandalous news or outright lies. Wasn't it Hearst who famously said "you give me the pictures, I'll give you the war."

Two things happened in the early twentieth century to change this. First, it was recognized that the public needed and wanted a reliable source of news. You had good editors and papers that emerged, such as the New York Times.

Second, corporate consolidation occurred, basically turning newspapers into what radio is today -- identical programming put out by one company but under different local names.

None of what we are seeing in terms of fake news or writing stories before facts are checked is new. It might be new to us born in the last half of the twentieth century, but it's certainly not new to the country. It's just sad to see us go back and relive an unfortunate aspect of our past.
 
Re: POTUS Elect Trump I: Get in pu$$y - we're gonna make American great again

walrus said:
Dan would be an expert on that
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People seem to forget that the reason he lost his job was playing fast and loose with the truth in favor of a narrative he liked.
 
Re: POTUS Elect Trump I: Get in pu$$y - we're gonna make American great again

I guess I'm actually kind of surprised that we don't have a consensus on what fake news is compared to respected organizations getting it wrong. I don't know if that's because we are intentionally not coming to a consensus or if there isn't a good understanding.
 
Re: POTUS Elect Trump I: Get in pu$$y - we're gonna make American great again

The Sicatoka said:
False narrative incites to violence.

How is that not the same.
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You deny that Ferguson police shot an unarmed black man?

And there's a major difference between demonstrators acting back when force is used upon them, and a lone wolf nutjob taking an assault weapon into a pizza place because some wingnut propaganda site spreads false stories about a pedophile and trafficking ring being operated out of it.

But I wouldn't expect you to be able to differentiate the subtleties of the two situations. To you, they're exactly the same.
 
Re: POTUS Elect Trump I: Get in pu$$y - we're gonna make American great again

trixR4kids said:
He's full of those.


What false narrative?
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Because it turned out Brown didn't actually have his hands up, then it was ok for the Ferguson cop to shoot him from 30 feet away, even if he was unarmed.

Guy wasn't charging him and snorting like a bull, either. I guess you tend to pick and choose which false narrative you think is ok to be spread.
 
Re: POTUS Elect Trump I: Get in pu$$y - we're gonna make American great again

rufus said:
Because it turned out Brown didn't actually have his hands up, then it was ok for the Ferguson cop to shoot him from 30 feet away, even if he was unarmed.

Guy wasn't charging him and snorting like a bull, either. I guess you tend to pick and choose which false narrative you think is ok to be spread.
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Right, and they never really ruled out that he might've shot once while MB was running away and missed, which would also be illegal.
 
Re: POTUS Elect Trump I: Get in pu$$y - we're gonna make American great again

rufus said:
You deny that Ferguson police shot an unarmed black man?

And there's a major difference between demonstrators acting back when force is used upon them, and a lone wolf nutjob taking an assault weapon into a pizza place because some wingnut propaganda site spreads false stories about a pedophile and trafficking ring being operated out of it.

But I wouldn't expect you to be able to differentiate the subtleties of the two situations. To you, they're exactly the same.
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As I said, the horrific is horrific on its own. Just say police shot an armed man. That's all that need be said. That alone should spur outrage.

"Hands up, don't shoot" is a false narrative designed to further incite, just as "the most evil pizzeria in history". Can you say "playing to confirmation biases"? Were the people in the streets in Ferguson there because the unarmed man was shot, or because of the "hands up don't shoot" narrative? We'll never know.


"Fake news" to me is "news" that has an iota of truth that is then spun hyperbolically to fit someone's political wants or confirmation biases.
For example: Unarmed black man shot by cops (true) ... with his hands up saying "don't shoot" (shown to be false, but it became the narrative).

If we can't get upset by an unarmed man being shot by cops, without the extra made up piled on stuff, we're done as a society.
 
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Re: POTUS Elect Trump I: Get in pu$$y - we're gonna make American great again

SJHovey said:
There is no doubt that what we are experiencing in this country is a revisiting of the way news was delivered to the American people between about 1850 and 1920, or thereabout. Except instead of penny newspapers as the cheap delivery system it's the internet.

150 years ago there were thousands of little newspapers cranking out stories. To separate themselves from the others, they would turn to gossip, scandalous news or outright lies. Wasn't it Hearst who famously said "you give me the pictures, I'll give you the war."

Two things happened in the early twentieth century to change this. First, it was recognized that the public needed and wanted a reliable source of news. You had good editors and papers that emerged, such as the New York Times.

Second, corporate consolidation occurred, basically turning newspapers into what radio is today -- identical programming put out by one company but under different local names.

None of what we are seeing in terms of fake news or writing stories before facts are checked is new. It might be new to us born in the last half of the twentieth century, but it's certainly not new to the country. It's just sad to see us go back and relive an unfortunate aspect of our past.
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There is a lot of truth to this. The thing that got us out of the habit last time was, unfortunately, something pretty undemocratic: the domination of TV by a few networks. We just sort of lucked out that for a while there was a Noblesse Oblige mission from guys like Murrow. And that died the second news was expected to turn a profit.

The problem is that impartiality is an elitist value. The majority of people just want their own opinions reflected back to them. You have to either be a pretty messed up anomaly or the product of social science education to realize your brain is lying to you on a regular basis. The vast, vast majority of people never even have an inkling that what seems like "just common sense" to them is a load of self-serving garbage.
 
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Re: POTUS Elect Trump I: Get in pu$$y - we're gonna make American great again

Economist has a very interesting article about our current dangerous scenario of a runaway dollar (discouraging US exports) coupled with protectionism. Bad for the world, bad for the US.
 
Re: POTUS Elect Trump I: Get in pu$$y - we're gonna make American great again

The Sicatoka said:
If we can't get upset by an unarmed man being shot by cops, without the extra made up piled on stuff, we're done as a society.
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Well, from what I've seen here and elsewhere, I guess we're done.
 
Re: POTUS Elect Trump I: Get in pu$$y - we're gonna make American great again

It's clear that The Sic could justify anything in his mind if he really set upon it. Sad.
 
Re: POTUS Elect Trump I: Get in pu$$y - we're gonna make American great again

Kepler said:
The power of ideology. Jesus Christ, I hope you never know how wrong you are.
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Kepler said:
The majority of people just want their own opinions reflected back to them. You have to either be a pretty messed up anomaly or the product of social science education to realize your brain is lying to you on a regular basis.
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Kep, your brain is lying to you. And it's not me saying it to you.

The DOJ report notes on page 44 that Johnson “made multiple statements to the media immediately following the incident that spawned the popular narrative that Wilson shot Brown execution-style as he held up his hands in surrender.” In one of those interviews, Johnson told MSNBC that Brown was shot in the back by Wilson. It was then that Johnson said Brown stopped, turned around with his hands up and said, “I don’t have a gun, stop shooting!” And, like that, “hands up, don’t shoot” became the mantra of a movement. But it was wrong, built on a lie.

Yet this does not diminish the importance of the real issues unearthed in Ferguson by Brown’s death. Nor does it discredit what has become the larger “Black Lives Matter.” In fact, the false Ferguson narrative stuck because of concern over a distressing pattern of other police killings of unarmed African American men and boys around the time of Brown’s death. Eric Garner was killed on a Staten Island street on July 17. John Crawford III was killed in a Wal-Mart in Beavercreek, Ohio, on Aug. 5, four days before Brown. Levar Jones survived being shot by a South Carolina state trooper on Sept. 4. Tamir Rice, 12 years old, was killed in a Cleveland park on Nov. 23, the day before the Ferguson grand jury opted not to indict Wilson. Sadly, the list has grown longer.

Now that black lives matter to everyone, it is imperative that we continue marching for and giving voice to those killed in racially charged incidents at the hands of police and others. But we must never allow ourselves to march under the banner of a false narrative on behalf of someone who would otherwise offend our sense of right and wrong. And when we discover that we have, we must acknowledge it, admit our error and keep on marching. That’s what I’ve done here.
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-- Jonathan Capehart of the WaPo editorial board in the WaPo
Link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...chael-brown/?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.6cfc50292466

If the link is tl;dr the video is just two minutes, in Capehart's own words and voice.
 
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