rufus
rock and roller
I think any one of us would make a better prez than Trump. We wouldn't know what we were doing, either, but at least we'd realize it and get some decent advisers.
But how would you know what a decent advisor was?
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POTUS 45:53: I Didn't Appoint That Judge So It Doesn't Matter.
- Thread starter ScoobyDoo
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But how would you know what a decent advisor was?
Slap Shot
I got nothing
Re: POTUS 45:53: I Didn't Appoint That Judge So It Doesn't Matter.
But you won't vote in such a manner to make sure that doesn't happen.
Handy sftu
But you won't vote in such a manner to make sure that doesn't happen.
Handy sftu
Re: POTUS 45:53: I Didn't Appoint That Judge So It Doesn't Matter.
It won't matter in MN anyways.
But you won't vote in such a manner to make sure that doesn't happen.
Handy sftu
It won't matter in MN anyways.
Re: POTUS 45:53: I Didn't Appoint That Judge So It Doesn't Matter.
I understand a lot of what Rube is saying, I think. I've voted third party before, and I may again. But I learned a big lesson from a mistake I made which was extremely costly.
I voted Nader in 2000 because I felt he was right about about the harm large corporate interests were were inflicting here and abroad. He'd always been a advocate for the underrepresented. Wisconsin went Gore--barely--so I could argue that my misjudgment was not causal, but that is a cop out. People like me put Dubya in the WH, and it cost us dearly. Most dems in Congress supported the Iraq invasion, given the information that was provided to them, but everyone knew Dubya would invade the minute 9/11 happened. I don't think that would have been the case with Gore. It may be that neither of them was desirable, but they weren't the same, and that election cost us. I contributed to that result.
All but the blind could see in 2016 that Trump was capable of being every bit as bad as he has been. No matter how tepid my feelings about his opponent were, there is no way I would risk putting someone like him in the WH. I learned that lesson.
But we need strong 3rd party participation, and I hope I will be able to vote third party again someday. But I will only do that if I am completely convinced that my vote for a third party will not put a predictably bad person in office. Simply feeling that neither the R nor the D are up to my standards is not enough. The stakes are too high. I learned that lesson in 2000, and I have to think many learned it in '16.
I understand a lot of what Rube is saying, I think. I've voted third party before, and I may again. But I learned a big lesson from a mistake I made which was extremely costly.
I voted Nader in 2000 because I felt he was right about about the harm large corporate interests were were inflicting here and abroad. He'd always been a advocate for the underrepresented. Wisconsin went Gore--barely--so I could argue that my misjudgment was not causal, but that is a cop out. People like me put Dubya in the WH, and it cost us dearly. Most dems in Congress supported the Iraq invasion, given the information that was provided to them, but everyone knew Dubya would invade the minute 9/11 happened. I don't think that would have been the case with Gore. It may be that neither of them was desirable, but they weren't the same, and that election cost us. I contributed to that result.
All but the blind could see in 2016 that Trump was capable of being every bit as bad as he has been. No matter how tepid my feelings about his opponent were, there is no way I would risk putting someone like him in the WH. I learned that lesson.
But we need strong 3rd party participation, and I hope I will be able to vote third party again someday. But I will only do that if I am completely convinced that my vote for a third party will not put a predictably bad person in office. Simply feeling that neither the R nor the D are up to my standards is not enough. The stakes are too high. I learned that lesson in 2000, and I have to think many learned it in '16.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Klobuchar is a centrist?
Re: POTUS 45:53: I Didn't Appoint That Judge So It Doesn't Matter.
This is antiquated, but I was solid for Coleman for MN guv way back. I stepped in the voting booth, and asked myself "What if?" as to Ventura. Ended up voting Ventura. He may be a complete nut now, but he wasn't then. If more people ask themselves, "What if?" we'll go through some serious growing pains (we're seeing it now, given the last election involving Bernie Bros, Hill, and Trumpers) but I hope it's possible. I'd like to believe it, but we're not there yet.
You know before Election Day if a 3rd party candidate has a shot or if you’re throwing your vote away. Maine has had independent governors and we have an independent senator now. We’ve had a bunch of Green Party in the state House. Trump vs Biden or Trump vs Sanders, 3rd party is throwing your vote away to the benefit of Trump because he’s not getting your vote and it’s better for him if you don’t vote for the only person that had a chance of beating him. Same with not voting.
Re: POTUS 45:53: I Didn't Appoint That Judge So It Doesn't Matter.
No one knew if Ventura had a shot. I say this will all honesty. No. One. Knew.
Heck, the majority thought Trump was going to lose. Oops.
No one knew if Ventura had a shot. I say this will all honesty. No. One. Knew.
Heck, the majority thought Trump was going to lose. Oops.
busterman62
I got a pocket full of kryptonite
Re: POTUS 45:53: I Didn't Appoint That Judge So It Doesn't Matter.
The Politicos here at USCHO (along with the media, etc.) had me convinced the HRC was a lock.
The Politicos here at USCHO (along with the media, etc.) had me convinced the HRC was a lock.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: POTUS 45:53: I Didn't Appoint That Judge So It Doesn't Matter.
Actually that is the one time I have seen where polling seemed to have no clue what was going on leading up to election day. You had one candidate who stole the nomination because of his name which caused the other candidate to switch parties from D to R. Ventura was expected to finish third but that is because polling underestimated the youth vote. Ventura did a campus tour the last week or so barnstorming every college and it worked to perfection.
Actually that is the one time I have seen where polling seemed to have no clue what was going on leading up to election day. You had one candidate who stole the nomination because of his name which caused the other candidate to switch parties from D to R. Ventura was expected to finish third but that is because polling underestimated the youth vote. Ventura did a campus tour the last week or so barnstorming every college and it worked to perfection.
unofan
Well-known member
He did. By 3 points. He just got lucky on the distribution.
You can occasionally beat the casino. Doesn't change the fact the odds are always with the house.
unofan
Well-known member
You swap 40,000 total votes from R to D in 3 states, and Clinton wins. He filled an inside straight on the river. It happens, but it wasn't likely.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: POTUS 45:53: I Didn't Appoint That Judge So It Doesn't Matter.
IIRC that was only one person here. The rest of us understood all too well how vicious one third of this country is and how lazy another third is.
IIRC that was only one person here. The rest of us understood all too well how vicious one third of this country is and how lazy another third is.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: POTUS 45:53: I Didn't Appoint That Judge So It Doesn't Matter.
No, she's Obama all over again. She will think that Mitch will come around. And that needs to go this time. We need to get past that and accept the other side as the treasonous cult it is or we will NEVER get out of the rut we have been in since 1980.
No, she's Obama all over again. She will think that Mitch will come around. And that needs to go this time. We need to get past that and accept the other side as the treasonous cult it is or we will NEVER get out of the rut we have been in since 1980.
Polls are a thing. If you’re polling in the single digits then you have no chance. Ventura was polling in double digits in a three way race. He had a non-zero chance of winning.
Trump was always going to get 45-48% of the total number of votes. His chance of winning depended on a few states swinging for him.
The statisticians never gave Hillary 100% chance, and in fact showed razor thin margins in the rust belt that ended up breaking for Trump
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mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Re: POTUS 45:53: I Didn't Appoint That Judge So It Doesn't Matter.
then go and swap 1,500 in another and tD wins to trump you.
then go and swap 1,500 in another and tD wins to trump you.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: POTUS 45:53: I Didn't Appoint That Judge So It Doesn't Matter.
Like I told my dad, the second the Dems get both houses and the presidency, it’s time to scorch the earth. Burn it to the ground. Go nuclear in the senate and ram EVERYTHING through. Single payer*, <s>higher</s> fair taxes on the wealthy, environmental protections, equality measures, wage protections for women, minimum wage or UBI. Literally every liberal policy on the docket. Push through every judge, cut debates, and don’t waste a second. Schedule overnight debates to satisfy debate time requirements. Throw out every rule in congress and the senate that isn’t establish by the constitution and holds back policy.
Yes, we will see some of them clawed back by Republicans when they take back control. But they won’t get all of them. The stuff that survives will be permanent. People like liberal policies when they try them. They might still hate Obamacare but they LOVE their ACA.
*and not some ****ty Medicare for all. That’s a terrible idea anyways. Terrible. Legit Nordic single-payer.
Like I told my dad, the second the Dems get both houses and the presidency, it’s time to scorch the earth. Burn it to the ground. Go nuclear in the senate and ram EVERYTHING through. Single payer*, <s>higher</s> fair taxes on the wealthy, environmental protections, equality measures, wage protections for women, minimum wage or UBI. Literally every liberal policy on the docket. Push through every judge, cut debates, and don’t waste a second. Schedule overnight debates to satisfy debate time requirements. Throw out every rule in congress and the senate that isn’t establish by the constitution and holds back policy.
Yes, we will see some of them clawed back by Republicans when they take back control. But they won’t get all of them. The stuff that survives will be permanent. People like liberal policies when they try them. They might still hate Obamacare but they LOVE their ACA.
*and not some ****ty Medicare for all. That’s a terrible idea anyways. Terrible. Legit Nordic single-payer.
D
Deutsche Gopher Fan
Guest
Re: POTUS 45:53: I Didn't Appoint That Judge So It Doesn't Matter.
Nope, he’s not laying down the case to overstay his term at all.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.....news is that at the end of 6 years, after America has been made GREAT again and I leave the beautiful White House (do you think the people would demand that I stay longer? KEEP AMERICA GREAT), both of these horrible papers will quickly go out of business & be forever gone!</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1140252529428717568?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 16, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Nope, he’s not laying down the case to overstay his term at all.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.....news is that at the end of 6 years, after America has been made GREAT again and I leave the beautiful White House (do you think the people would demand that I stay longer? KEEP AMERICA GREAT), both of these horrible papers will quickly go out of business & be forever gone!</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1140252529428717568?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 16, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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