POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

I agree it's one side. The rich.

That being said, I fully appreciated the discussion today. Some feathers got ruffled, including mine, but we kept on talking and listening to each other. IMO, that is a very important thing that is missing from the mainstream today. We didn't shout each other down, we simply disagreed on some things and asked questions, and tried to provide clarity to how we feel, etc. If that can bleed over to more people, there is still hope.

There's no hope. Just like Republicans you have been completely intractable despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. You, just like your "conservative" contemporaries continue to believe your entitled to your own set of facts.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

North Dakota's Native American population put Heitkamp over the top to win last time. The North Dakota GOP is now stopping them from voting.

The North Dakota GOP have instituted a law that made illegal any voter ID that uses a PO box. Most NA reservations do not have street addresses. The population living there can only get mail by PO Box and the law affects NAs at twice the rate of the overall population.

The courts overturned the law. So the North Dakota legislature said that you can use a provisional ballot if you don't have a street address on your ID. But the provisional ballot will never be counted unless you can later show a street address on your ID - so its really the same. This time the courts let it go.

Anyone from North Dakota want to chime in on this one?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

North Dakota's Native American population put Heitkamp over the top to win last time. The North Dakota GOP is now stopping them from voting.

The North Dakota GOP have instituted a law that made illegal any voter ID that uses a PO box. Most NA reservations do not have street addresses. The population living there can only get mail by PO Box and the law affects NAs at twice the rate of the overall population.

The courts overturned the law. So the North Dakota legislature said that you can use a provisional ballot if you don't have a street address on your ID. But the provisional ballot will never be counted unless you can later show a street address on your ID - so its really the same. This time the courts let it go.

Anyone from North Dakota want to chime in on this one?

It's classic voter suppression and it's been a strategy of the GOP for a while. Power begets power.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

Locking up babies and children is justified.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">“Op-Ed praises Trump Administrations efforts at the Border.” <a href="https://twitter.com/FoxNews?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@FoxNews</a> The Washington Examiner States, “Finally, the government has taken steps to stop releasing unaccompanied minors to criminals and traffickers.” This was done by the Obama Administration!</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1052181272137801728?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 16, 2018</a></blockquote>
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[5mn_Major]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

As reported Monday, this year has seen a spending increase of 3% (thanks GOP).

Corporations paid 22% less in taxes (thanks GOP), but that was made up by individual income tax payments - that is individual income taxes completely made up for the 22% corporate shortfall. In other words, the tax law - was actually a major individual tax increase law (thanks GOP).

Meanwhile, the deficit is exploding 17% (thanks GOP) to its highest level since we had no government revenue in the great recession (a recession which was also thanks to the GOP).

Any conservatives want to chime on your huge income tax hike on the American people - and exploding debt?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

As reported Monday, this year has seen a spending increase of 3% (thanks GOP).

Corporations paid 22% less in taxes (thanks GOP), but that was made up by individual income tax payments - that is individual income taxes completely made up for the 22% corporate shortfall. In other words, the tax law - was actually a major tax increase law (thanks GOP).

Meanwhile, the deficit is exploding 17% (thanks GOP) to its highest level since we had no government revenue in the great recession (a recession which was also thanks to the GOP).

Any conservatives want to chime on your huge income tax hike on the American people - and exploding debt?

All as planned. They won't lose a single vote.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The United States has strongly informed the President of Honduras that if the large Caravan of people heading to the U.S. is not stopped and brought back to Honduras, no more money or aid will be given to Honduras, effective immediately!</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1052183647552491521?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 16, 2018</a></blockquote>
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[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">For the record, I have no financial interests in Saudi Arabia (or Russia, for that matter). Any suggestion that I have is just more FAKE NEWS (of which there is plenty)!</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1052186219696803841?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 16, 2018</a></blockquote>
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[JF_Gophers]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">For the record, I have no financial interests in Saudi Arabia (or Russia, for that matter). Any suggestion that I have is just more FAKE NEWS (of which there is plenty)!</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1052186219696803841?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 16, 2018</a></blockquote>
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Selling arms to them isnt a financial interest?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

Selling arms to them isnt a financial interest?

Not personal, no.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">For the record, I have no financial interests in Saudi Arabia (or Russia, for that matter). Any suggestion that I have is just more FAKE NEWS (of which there is plenty)!</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1052186219696803841?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 16, 2018</a></blockquote>
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Didn't he say he had investments there during a speech?

 

[burd]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

Didn't he say he had investments there during a speech?

Tax returns if you want us to believe you.

Though I'm sure he has a nice collection of shells to hide his peas.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

North Dakota's Native American population put Heitkamp over the top to win last time. The North Dakota GOP is now stopping them from voting.

The North Dakota GOP have instituted a law that made illegal any voter ID that uses a PO box. Most NA reservations do not have street addresses. The population living there can only get mail by PO Box and the law affects NAs at twice the rate of the overall population.

The courts overturned the law. So the North Dakota legislature said that you can use a provisional ballot if you don't have a street address on your ID. But the provisional ballot will never be counted unless you can later show a street address on your ID - so its really the same. This time the courts let it go.

Anyone from North Dakota want to chime in on this one?

First, I don't think North Dakota is the only state that has had to deal with the issue of requiring a physical address versus a post office box address. I know in Minnesota you need a physical address, although you can list a PO Box address as well if that's where you want your mail. The physical address is important because it identifies what ward or precinct or district or whatever you are eligible to vote in. In fact, I recall a dispute in Minnesota from a few years ago where people were using a mail center or UPS office or something as their "address" on voter registrations and Minnesota cracked down on it.

As for the specific North Dakota case, I guess my primary criticism would have to do with the 8th Circuit and US Supreme Court decisions as applied to this election. The District Court set aside the law as unconstitutional. The 8th Circuit or the Supremes have every right to disagree with and reverse that decision. However, I don't think that it's ideal to do so after early voting has already started. But that's part of the problem with our endless election cycle. When we modify the voting rules to basically let people vote over an extended cycle of time, sometimes the work of the Courts is going to change the rules mid-stream.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

North Dakota's Native American population put Heitkamp over the top to win last time. The North Dakota GOP is now stopping them from voting.

The North Dakota GOP have instituted a law that made illegal any voter ID that uses a PO box. Most NA reservations do not have street addresses. The population living there can only get mail by PO Box and the law affects NAs at twice the rate of the overall population.

The courts overturned the law. So the North Dakota legislature said that you can use a provisional ballot if you don't have a street address on your ID. But the provisional ballot will never be counted unless you can later show a street address on your ID - so its really the same. This time the courts let it go.

Anyone from North Dakota want to chime in on this one?

whyn't the injuns allowed to list "reservation" on their applications? what do they use for their drivers licenses? (or don't they list address on driver's licenses in south canada dakota?)

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

Is there any evidence of voter fraud in North Dakota? And I mean real voter fraud, where people actively broke the law to vote. (not what Faux calls voter fraud) If not, why even put this stupid law into place?

That is why, while your explanation is well thought out and probably true, it is completely naive and/or disingenuous. If anyone actually believed North Dakota was putting this law in place because of the problems that can arise from PO Box addresses we might be inclined to believe you. The problem is since this, as usual, is wrapped in the veil of "preventing wide spread voter fraud" even though no credible evidence has been put forth to prove such fraud exists we all know the real reason behind it. Unless you think it is just a coincidence that one party seems to do this in a bunch of states and it always seems to disproportionally block certain groups from voting who just so happen to be people who dont vote for said party.

See if North Dakota was truly doing this "for the integrity of the system" as they imply with their BS rhetoric about voter fraud, they would have also figured out a way to still get the Reservation Citizens an acceptable ID. It shouldnt be that hard to figure out a way to make it work. They didnt do that, because they dont actually care whether these people vote or not. Well that isnt true, they certainly would rather they didnt vote...but you get my point.

Now I know you are going to post some well thought out and probably very true statement as it pertains to you. I am not accusing you of being like the NDGOP. You probably do have legit reasons why this is needed and I will accept them. In ding so though I ask you to acknowledge that your reasoning is not why the laws were put in place and everyone knows it.

FYI according to heritage.org there has been 3 verifiable cases of voter fraud.

edit: There is a way to get an address:

The state government says that residents without a street ID should contact their county's 911 coordinator to sign up for a free street address and request a letter confirming that address.

Yeah that sounds like a nice efficient way to solve this problem. How many Natives live in NoDak these days?

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

Is there any evidence of voter fraud in North Dakota? And I mean real voter fraud, where people actively broke the law to vote. (not what Faux calls voter fraud) If not, why even put this stupid law into place?

That is why, while your explanation is well thought out and probably true, it is completely naive and/or disingenuous. If anyone actually believed North Dakota was putting this law in place because of the problems that can arise from PO Box addresses we might be inclined to believe you. The problem is since this, as usual, is wrapped in the veil of "preventing wide spread voter fraud" even though no credible evidence has been put forth to prove such fraud exists we all know the real reason behind it. Unless you think it is just a coincidence that one party seems to do this in a bunch of states and it always seems to disproportionally block certain groups from voting who just so happen to be people who dont vote for said party.

See if North Dakota was truly doing this "for the integrity of the system" as they imply with their BS rhetoric about voter fraud, they would have also figured out a way to still get the Reservation Citizens an acceptable ID. It shouldnt be that hard to figure out a way to make it work. They didnt do that, because they dont actually care whether these people vote or not. Well that isnt true, they certainly would rather they didnt vote...but you get my point.

Now I know you are going to post some well thought out and probably very true statement as it pertains to you. I am not accusing you of being like the NDGOP. You probably do have legit reasons why this is needed and I will accept them. In ding so though I ask you to acknowledge that your reasoning is not why the laws were put in place and everyone knows it.

FYI according to heritage.org there has been 3 verifiable cases of voter fraud.

edit: There is a way to get an address:

The state government says that residents without a street ID should contact their county's 911 coordinator to sign up for a free street address and request a letter confirming that address.

Yeah that sounds like a nice efficient way to solve this problem.

It's because they are trying to ensure that only white people can vote. It's pretty obvious. This is just a tactic like requiring a driver's license. On its face it seems not terribly onerous. But to anyone who can engage more than one brain cell at a time, it clearly disproportionately affects minorities. Pretty much everything the GOP does now with regards to the vote is a racist attempt at disenfranchising voters.

At this point they should have a VRA for republican voting measures. First you have to prove your bill doesn't disproportionately impact minorities.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

Didn't he say he had investments there during a speech?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Trump in 2015: “Saudi Arabia, I get along with all of them. They buy apartments from me. They spend $40 million, $50 million. Am I supposed to dislike them? I like them very much.” <a href="https://t.co/Q6Jjo18K15">https://t.co/Q6Jjo18K15</a></p>— Abby D. Phillip (@abbydphillip) <a href="https://twitter.com/abbydphillip/status/1052186803040604165?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 16, 2018</a></blockquote>
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[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">What North Dakota Republicans did was fire a heat-seeking missile to nuke the Native American vote in their state. <a href="https://t.co/lqbbQeYDbj">pic.twitter.com/lqbbQeYDbj</a></p>— Maddow Blog (@MaddowBlog) <a href="https://twitter.com/MaddowBlog/status/1052006952870576129?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 16, 2018</a></blockquote>
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[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

I don't like the idea that if I work my butt off to get more money, all of a sudden I have to pay a bigger % because I can afford to. That doesn't sit well with me. In my eyes, it actually encourages me to make juuuuusssst enough to not jump to the next tax bracket, or to find write-offs and loopholes to pay less taxes.

Brent it is a myth that the very wealthy are the ones who work their butts off to earn that money.

This is where I think professional athletes are actually some of the most deserving people in the world of the $$$ they earn in our economic system. Most came from modest means (some were well off, some were dirt poor but I have yet to see someone from a Gates or Allen or Buffet family in the ranks of MLB, the NFL or the NHL) and truly work harder than anyone most of us will ever meet to be able to sign that $50,000,000 contract.

The truth is the VAST majority of the fabulously wealthy INHERITED their money and did nothing at all to earn it. I'm not saying they don't work hard, many do. But the idea that they busted their butt more than you or I did or do is a myth. It is a lie. It is a fable. They'd be rich whether they worked hard, or worked not at all. Most poor people I know actually work harder than I do, often at two or three jobs, so their kids always have food, and a roof overhead and the lights are turned on. Granted, they pay little or no income tax, but are harmed by sales and use tax so that kind of evens out. I have no idea how old you are but I am sure of one thing: You will never work your way into a significantly higher tax bracket. I don't care if you work 60 hours a week (and are overtime eligible, unlike me) for the next 10 years. The only way it will happen is if you win one of those giant lotteries.

If most people really and truly did WORK their way to the billions of dollars each of the 1% control, I could at least understand the idea of flat taxes and other such nonsense. It just isn't true.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-cards="hidden" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">JUST IN: White House shelves plan to prop up coal and nuclear power plants at risk of closure: report <a href="https://t.co/ZcJv1BnCkG">https://t.co/ZcJv1BnCkG</a> <a href="https://t.co/41hg5ysOIc">pic.twitter.com/41hg5ysOIc</a></p>— The Hill (@thehill) <a href="https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1052209809519464448?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 16, 2018</a></blockquote>
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So much for helping out the coal miners!