POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

and because the more money you have, the easier it is to make more money. Left unchecked, within a few generations the top 1% will own nearly all wealth instead of "just" 40% of it owns now (source on the 40%: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-in-the-past-50-years/?utm_term=.a33cddd5d140)

There’s also this.

Otherwise it’s an exponential series with nothing to stop it from shifting all money to the richest person. The money will always flow up unless there is a downward pressure. For every dollar a corporation makes, the largest fraction (that isn’t distributed to shareholders, which is more complicated) will always go to the executives.

The richer you are, the more you can afford to not spend $1. If you are making $35,000 a year, you can’t afford to not spend it these days. So that dollar the person spends will inevitably get spent in the economy and it gets cleaved up proportionally with the vast majority going to the rich who can sit on it.

This is also one of the reasons why you lower interest rates in a down economy. It stimulates spending instead of saving. Taxes do that in an up economy by forcing the rich to spend the same fraction as someone who makes much less than them.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

If we want a flat tax, I want the first $250,000 exempted. The rich can fight it out over the rest.

Mookie suggested this earlier.

This is why I stated I was open to hearing about a flat tax.

 

[SJHovey]

I don’t think the GOP voters or Fark Independents understand this math. For every dollar society provides me in income, I am necessarily using progressively more of society’s resources.

Say I’m selling lemonade on a street corner. I make $100. I use two streets. My grocery store is down the street and I can bike there. Not much wear and tear.

Now say I grow to be Lemonade Stands Corp andbi make $1,000,000. Instead of selling my lemonade on a street corner and using two streets I use the federal highway system now because my supply chain has grown. I also use Customs to import specialty lemons and cane sugar from Brazil. I’m using ports and docks now and all of the inspectors that come with it.

In order to make that last dollar, I’m using far more of the nation’s resources and not just my local streets. I should pay progressively more in taxes because I use progressively more resources.

Or, we understand that tariffs, excise taxes, import fees, gas taxes and a virtual plethora of other taxes and fees operate to recover those infrastructure costs to which you refer, long before I pay income tax on my net distribution.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

I didn't say anything to the contrary. If you want to argue that I should pay more because I can afford it, fine. Make that argument. But don't tell me that I "use many times more government infrastructure and services" than someone making a fraction of what I earn.

Ah. You must be referring to the biggest part of US govt. discretionary spending. With the US hiding behind this 'fantastic' 2nd amendment, who gains from the military and other overseas govt. services (at $600B for the military + a paltry $100 for sec of state that's much of our $1T deficit)...maintaining a worldwide structure safe for Americans overseas? Is it the guy who eats spam for dinner and can't afford to heat his place?

Listen. I'm not the guy who wants to have the rich folks pay for everything. But don't sit there telling everyone that the rich don't use tons of government services.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

Or, we understand that tariffs, excise taxes, import fees, gas taxes and a virtual plethora of other taxes and fees operate to recover those infrastructure costs to which you refer, long before I pay income tax on my net distribution.

Or, we understand those taxes don’t do that fairly. They shift that burden to the lower income brackets.

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

Gas taxes don't come anywhere close to the costs of maintaining our roads and interstates, as they are supposed to. Hence, the sorry state of their condition, in many areas.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

Gas taxes don't come anywhere close to the costs of maintaining our roads and interstates, as they are supposed to. Hence, the sorry state of their condition, in many areas.

True.

 

[aparch]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

that gives one incentive though to earn a 10mm paycheck

brent has a point though.

how about everyone pays 6% of their gross for social security.
everyone pays 8% of their gross from national health care
and everyone pays 45% of their gross for income tax with the first $200k exempt.
then everyone (here companies are people... freedom of speech and all) pays 5% of the wealth (whatever they own) with no exemptions.

can even do away with corp tax (so no more excuse for double tax on passive income)

flatter than twiggy!

I'm in! Where can I vote for you?

 

[aparch]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

Gas taxes don't come anywhere close to the costs of maintaining our roads and interstates, as they are supposed to. Hence, the sorry state of their condition, in many areas.

There is some local movements to have GPS trackers voluntarily installed where drivers would be charged per mile driven.

My issues are with those who use their vehicles on off-road trails (not maintained by DOT's so they don't receive funding) or for Toll Roads (which are ineligible to receive State and Federal funding for the construction or maintenance of said roads).

My suggestion is to charge an additional fee for electric vehicles (and a lesser charge for hybrid vehicles that still use some fuel) during each license renewal. Also, find a different source of funding for roads than relying on the 'hasn't-been-increased-since-the-80's' Motor Fuel Tax.

 

[SJHovey]

Ah. You must be referring to the biggest part of US govt. discretionary spending. With the US hiding behind this 'fantastic' 2nd amendment, who gains from the military and other overseas govt. services (at $600B for the military + a paltry $100 for sec of state that's much of our $1T deficit)...maintaining a worldwide structure safe for Americans overseas? Is it the guy who eats spam for dinner and can't afford to heat his place?

Listen. I'm not the guy who wants to have the rich folks pay for everything. But don't sit there telling everyone that the rich don't use tons of government services.

This what the argument always turns to. The argument that the rich benefit from the military way, way more than the poor.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

There is some local movements to have GPS trackers voluntarily installed where drivers would be charged per mile driven.

My issues are with those who use their vehicles on off-road trails (not maintained by DOT's so they don't receive funding) or for Toll Roads (which are ineligible to receive State and Federal funding for the construction or maintenance of said roads).

My suggestion is to charge an additional fee for electric vehicles (and a lesser charge for hybrid vehicles that still use some fuel) during each license renewal. Also, find a different source of funding for roads than relying on the 'hasn't-been-increased-since-the-80's' Motor Fuel Tax.

No! No more regressive taxes. We don’t need more. We need more progressive taxes. We should get rid of all fees and flat taxes. The income tax should provide everything we need.

The rich have spent a lot of money making sure we force the cost of society onto the lower and middle classes. That’s where clever “fair” taxes like the gas tax have been sold as a solution. Hogwash. Those costs get passed onto the consumer.

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

There is some local movements to have GPS trackers voluntarily installed where drivers would be charged per mile driven.

And this is what I don't understand about government. They come up with all sorts of complicated, expensive solutions to basically simple problems.

Just raise the gas tax.

It will have the same effect. People who drive more, or drive less efficient vehicles, will pay more. The exact same thing that installing expensive GPS units will do, but with no cost whatsoever.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

And this is what I don't understand about government. They come up with all sorts of complicated, expensive solutions to basically simple problems.

Just raise the gas tax.

It will have the same effect. People who drive more, or drive less efficient vehicles, will pay more. The exact same thing that installing expensive GPS units will do, but with no cost whatsoever.

I love the gas tax. Our new governor is going to be for it. The Republican idiot running against him is against it.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

And this is what I don't understand about government. They come up with all sorts of complicated, expensive solutions to basically simple problems.

Just raise the gas tax.

It will have the same effect. People who drive more, or drive less efficient vehicles, will pay more. The exact same thing that installing expensive GPS units will do, but with no cost whatsoever.

I fully agree. And, without GPS, there won't be any possibilities of tracking/etc. Don't "tinfoil hat" me, here. It was revealed recently that smartphones locations do that, even if you turn off the location feature.

Gas prices and my proximity to my job were direct factors in what I have bought for vehicles and where I lived for the past 20 or so years.

 

[JF_Gophers]

I fully agree. And, without GPS, there won't be any possibilities of tracking/etc. Don't "tinfoil hat" me, here. It was revealed recently that smartphones locations do that, even if you turn off the location feature.

Even your dumb phone tracks you. Every cell tower you come in range of interacts with your phone if its on.

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

Even your dumb phone tracks you. Every cell tower you come in range of interacts with your phone if its on.

Also true, and furthers my point.

 

[Slap Shot]

And the rich, R or D, still take advantage of all the tax breaks they can. Period.

Once again what individual taxpayers do is not germane to the subject. Only one side has repeatedly fought to raise tax revenues to help the lower and middle classes while one repeatedly reverses it.

You should have just come pr and said the following instead I'd dancing:

Why should they have to pay a bigger percentage?

 

[The Rube]

Re: POTUS 45.42: Who Needs Tax Increases? If You're Rich Just Write A Check.

Once again what individual taxpayers do is not germane to the subject. Only one side has repeatedly fought to raise tax revenues to help the lower and middle classes while one repeatedly reverses it.

You should have just come pr and said the following instead I'd dancing:

I agree it's one side. The rich.

That being said, I fully appreciated the discussion today. Some feathers got ruffled, including mine, but we kept on talking and listening to each other. IMO, that is a very important thing that is missing from the mainstream today. We didn't shout each other down, we simply disagreed on some things and asked questions, and tried to provide clarity to how we feel, etc. If that can bleed over to more people, there is still hope.

 

[mookie1995]

lol. The guy "across the street" (I can only see his driveway, its a 30 acre oceanfront compound completely hidden from the road by woods) from me pays something like $60-70K in property taxes. Multiple buildings. Hedge fund manager from NYC, uses it a couple weeks in the summer. I'd be okay if you tax 5% of his wealth every year

well of course!! he would pay too.

are you becoming a republican? don't want to pay your 'fair share'??

 

[mookie1995]

Once again what individual taxpayers do is not germane to the subject. Only one side has repeatedly fought to raise tax revenues to help the lower and middle classes while one repeatedly reverses it.

You should have just come pr and said the following instead I'd dancing:

the gawd dammmed germans ain't got nothing to do with it!!!