POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

Everything in this thread has the tone of "THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING! EVERYTHING THEY DO IS PURE EVIL! Oh look, a cookie. And if you don't agree with me, you're one of them - the most hated and stupiderest people there is." So I've just been spot checking along every so often.

And yet there's been more thought, intelligence, and Statemanship in here than in the entire Presidential press conference yesterday.

You don't believe that?

Donald J. Trump Verified account
‏@realDonaldTrump

Thank you for all of the nice statements on the Press Conference yesterday. Rush Limbaugh said one of greatest ever. Fake media not happy!

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

Last summer, Kep, you told me and others that I was responsible for Trump, even if I never supported him, even if I voted for someone else in my primary, even if I hated him. Your explanation, and that of a few others on here, was that Trump was a product of Republican policies, positions and campaign tactics from years past, and that I had to "own" him (as I recall the phrase).

This is true to some extent. Republicans certainly winked for years at the Army of Darkness that eventually elected Trump. Every Republican since Nixon has played footsie under the table with the Deplorables.

Let me put it in a way I think will be more amenable. Let's say Mary is an anti-abortion Catholic and a Democrat. She votes mostly for Democrats, but she votes third party in 2008. It's now 2010. Is Mary in part responsible for the millions of babies being led into the abattoir of abortion daily because, despite her principles, she didn't actively oppose pro-choice candidates?

In that sense, all Republicans are in some measure responsible for "Bullsh-t Mountain," the GOP's alternative reality programming of their dimmer/more dangerous supporters, and ultimately the sh-t sandwich those supporters have smeared all over the Oval Office.

But it's certainly not as great a responsibility as the cretin who voted for Trump because he liked him, or the too-smart-by-half tactical voter who saw the potential danger of Trump BUT HER EMAILZ!!! and so voted for him thinking the GOP could somehow control him. The latter is by far the most guilty.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

And yet there's been more thought, intelligence, and Statemanship in here than in the entire Presidential press conference yesterday.

You don't believe that?

I expect nothing good from this president, but I do hope to be proved wrong from time to time.

 

[MaizeRage]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

Last summer, Kep, you told me and others that I was responsible for Trump, even if I never supported him, even if I voted for someone else in my primary, even if I hated him. Your explanation, and that of a few others on here, was that Trump was a product of Republican policies, positions and campaign tactics from years past, and that I had to "own" him (as I recall the phrase).

And I don't really think you're a gutless piece of ****. I just post repeated and vigorous defenses of that fact that you are.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

I expect nothing good from this president, but I do hope to be proved wrong from time to time.

I pray I'm proved wrong every single day. There is nothing I enjoy more than being wrong because I'm usually pessimistic as hell.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

We've seen the same pattern happen in 2000, 2004, and now 2016. The Dems better find someone to run with some chops and charisma cause every time they just pick the most qualified person running that year they lose.

The most qualified candidate has lost A LOT recently:

5-5 in the last 10 elections.

80 L
84 W
88 W
92 L
96 W
00 L
04 W*
08 L
12 W
16 L

*I am taking the incumbent has by definition most qualified, though in 04 that is very open to question.



The prior 10, 7-2-1.

76 L
72 W
68 W
64 W
60 L
56 W
52 T**
48 W
44 W
40 W

** Eisenhower v Stephenson. I really don't know. Eisenhower was more experienced as a leader, but Stephenson was more experienced in government. Call it a tie.

This suggests the public is less concerned about experience and qualification now, and is more attracted to the "outsider" / "maverick." Interestingly the dividing line is when the fallout from the upheaval of the 60s was integrated into mainstream culture by the mid-70s, after which the rebel started to be seen by most people to be morally superior to the status quo. (Blame everything on Fonzie.)

The two intervals of greatest retrenchment towards stability were the two great periods of insecurity and anxiety: WW2 and the Civil Rights Era.

 

[BassAle]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

Last summer, Kep, you told me and others that I was responsible for Trump, even if I never supported him, even if I voted for someone else in my primary, even if I hated him. Your explanation, and that of a few others on here, was that Trump was a product of Republican policies, positions and campaign tactics from years past, and that I had to "own" him (as I recall the phrase).

Kep is right on this. You guys own him. The Republicans made their bed over several decades, and cultivated the environment where Trump could win a primary and republicans would care more about their party vs the actual well being of the country to vote for him in the general election.

I find it pretty funny that only one of you has the guts to admit to voting for Trump. It's pretty amazing the guy won, when no one actually voted for him, unless you would have us believe that Trump just happened to do so much worse among Republican college hockey fans vs other Republicans.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

#LockHimUp

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">BREAKING: Fox News is reporting Trump was fully briefed on the Flynn call with Russia after it happened--and allowed Pence to be lied to.</p>— Seth Abramson (@SethAbramson) <a href="https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/832427411056771072">February 17, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...alls-with-russian-ambassador-source-says.html

Let's break this down:

BREAKING: Fox News is reporting Trump was fully briefed on the Flynn call with Russia (Completely TRUE)

after it happened (if it was before it happened, that would really be a scoop!)

-- and allowed Pence to be lied to. The Fox article doesn't say that in any way, shape, or form.
The record is that Pence's statement RE Flynn was on 1/15. DOJ first contacts WH counsel RE Flynn on 1/26 at which time Trump orders a legal review. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems for this statement to be true, the DOJ would have to have contacted Trump directly and privately (before he was President) without the knowledge of WH counsel McGahn and others. Did Sally Yates have Trump's personal cell number?

So Fox didn't report this, and to be charitable, it's very misleading and total speculation that to be true requires some extraordinarily unlikely events to have occurred, but never the less it's approaching 30,000 likes/retweets at the moment, mostly I assume, by folks willing to take it at face value.

The point isn't even whether this particular tweet is right or wrong, it's just one example of many statements by pundits on both the right and left that feed the machine and help keep us all at odds. And it's not slowing down any time soon.

Perhaps in this case Mr. Abramson feels he is fighting the good fight against evil and to his credit he does, later in his feed, acknowledge this statement may not be the correct explanation. That has 8 likes/retweets.

I agree with EODS that we all own a little part of the state of American politics.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

Which of the people that you do support are being vocal in their opposition of Trump? I'll wait...

By "support" do you mean people who I voted for?

Assuming that to be the case, as I've posted here before, I voted for Al Franken the last time he was up. I think he's made his feelings on Trump clear. I also voted for Klobuchar the last time she ran, but I right now I can't specifically point you to statements she's made about Trump. I assume she opposes him.

In November's election I voted for McMullin, and candidly I'm not even sure if that guy is still alive or in the country.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

I voted for Al Franken the last time he was up.

Baby steps.

I keeed -- that's actually a big leap. Well done. The biggest step I ever took across the aisle was Bill Weld, which is hardly even a hop (and John Silber was a true as-shole), though I voted for dozens of Libertarians before I grew up.

 

[aparch]

A friend and I talked briefly about the Pence thing......what Pence doesn't (officially) know can't hurt him....

So if he was left out, and Trump (SURPRISE) was ousted from office, Pence is in the free and clear to succeed Trump.


Yeah, tinfoil hat, and all, but it's a little plausible......

Wait, wait, Pence is using the script from the movie "My Fellow Americans?"

 

[Rover]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

I don't see any of that at all. If you're watching Hollywood as a sign of what's happening, I cannot help you.

Well since you're face to face with Bernie's crotch is probably pretty tough to see anything else. I kid, I kid before you go on a tirade...

Scoobs is correct. While not specific to Bernie supporters too many people want to hide behind the mantra of "well, I didn't vote for him" while conveniently omitting the fact that if you didn't vote Democratic, either for Prez or down the ballot, you enabled Trump to get elected with your passivity.

 

[Almington]

Kep is right on this. You guys own him. The Republican's made their bed over several decades, and cultivated the environment where Trump could win a primary and republicans would care more about their party vs the actual well being of the country to vote for him in the general election.

I find it pretty funny that only one of you has the guts to admit to voting for Trump. It's pretty amazing the guy won, when no one actually voted for him, unless you would have us believe that Trump just happened to do so much worse among Republican college hockey fans vs other Republicans.

I would say that Trump did do worse among the type of Republican voter who would be a college hockey fan mostly because they tend to be college educated and thus have some critical thinking ability and saw this sh*tshow for what it would become. The problem is those types of voters are a minority in the Republican Party. Trump targeted the demographic that Hillary couldn't identify with and was this unable to reach and that's why she lost Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania by tiny margins.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

Scoobs is correct. While not specific to Bernie supporters too many people want to hide behind the mantra of "well, I didn't vote for him" while conveniently omitting the fact that if you didn't vote Democratic, either for Prez or down the ballot, you enabled Trump to get elected with your passivity.

I voted for Hillary but my boss voted for Trump, and I knew he was going to, and I didn't murder him so it's MY FAULT!!!! Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

I love that in one breath you're saying we need to all pull together and then in the next breath you say "not like those {whoever your hissy fit is against today}."

Move. On. We've got a bigger problem now. Whatever Hillary's merits, she's done. There is no longer any reason at all for you to snipe other than your wounded ego still recovering from the embarrassment of lecturing all of us for months about Her Inevitability only to fall flat on your face on 11-8.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

Is Rover part of the problem for assuring her victory?

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

Toss in a F'Hawks fan for effect.

Mother of god...

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

Your government, hard at work.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

Is Rover part of the problem for assuring her victory?

He promoted complacency and that cause the liberal wing of the nation to stay home, secure in their knowledge that Trump would go down with bawling and then with a murmuring whimper used to blame everyone around him.

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

Just saw a headline I hope is fake...trump considering mobilizing up to 100,000 national guard to roumd up undocumented immigrants.
Better be untrue. At work and on phone so can't link to what I saw

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

And yes everyone is wearing this stink. The only reason Trump had any chance was because both sides are so vitriolic. Lets not forget, the Dems could have stopped this and hundreds of thousands chose not to for reasons so dumb they actually defy logic.

The GOP is responsible for Trump being nominated, but to pretend the Libs arent at least in part responsible for his being elected and for the current disgusting level of hatred amongst the parties is Fox News level echo chamber BS.

Agreed. Libs are responsible in that they didn't vote.

Pennsylvania:
2008 - 3.27 million to 2.66 million
2012 - 2.99 million to 2.68 million
2016 - 2.93 million to 2.97 million

Wisconsin:
2008 - 1.68 million to 1.26 million
2012 - 1.62 million to 1.41 million
2016 - 1.38 million to 1.40 million

Michigan:
2008 - 2.87 million to 2.05 million
2012 - 2.56 million to 2.12 million
2016 - 2.27 million to 2.28 million

Minnesota:
2008 - 1.57 million to 1.28 million
2012 - 1.55 million to 1.32 million
2016 - 1.36 million to 1.32 million

Iowa:
2008 - 0.83 million to 0.68 million
2012 - 0.82 million to 0.73 million
2016 - 0.65 million to 0.80 million

Ohio:
2008 - 2.94 million to 2.68 million
2012 - 2.83 million to 2.66 million
2016 - 2.39 million to 2.84 million

I see a trend there. Not much uptick in GOP votes in the battleground states but a massive dropoff in votes for the Democrats.

The big exception is Florida.
Florida:
2008 - 4.28 million to 4.04 million
2012 - 4.24 million to 4.16 million
2016 - 4.50 million to 4.62 million