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POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

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Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

ScoobyDoo said:
MSNBC had Kasie Hunt in the hallway asking Congressmen about the Press Conference. Every Republican said they didn't see it. Every Democrat was terrified. Draw your own conclusions from that.
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They saw it...and they dont want to get caught in lies like Trump has allowed Pence and Ryan to so they will pretend they didnt so they dont have to defend him. My guess is there will be some fun closed door meetings the next few days...

But Obama said something stupid once, so it is all the same!

I know there are some here that want to prove that what Trumps is doing and saying is on par with others...it isnt. The guy is a whackjob. This isnt Right vs. Left, this is sane versus insane. He does the stuff both sides accuse the other of and he does it out front and no one is stopping him. And just because we point it out and the media covers it doesnt mean we arent paying attention to the stuff behind the scenes so please stop pretending that is the case. We know it, we see it but we can only fight one thing at a time.
 
Handyman said:
That is a terrible analogy Kepler.

And yes everyone is wearing this stink. The only reason Trump had any chance was because both sides are so vitriolic. Lets not forget, the Dems could have stopped this and hundreds of thousands chose not to for reasons so dumb they actually defy logic.

The GOP is responsible for Trump being nominated, but to pretend the Libs arent at least in part responsible for his being elected and for the current disgusting level of hatred amongst the parties is Fox News level echo chamber BS.
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I'm about to step into my office, and therefore don't really have enough time to properly articulate out wrong Kepler is. This will suffice. To put it gently, anyone who thinks they aren't at least in part to blame for all of this needs to check their head or their ego.
 
Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

Handyman said:
No. Even if I believed it was a good idea (and it is so horrible an idea it sounds like something Jeff Sessions would support) the ease with which some rule like that would be abused is astounding. Just because you think they are crazy doesnt mean you can restrict their vote.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO...ad infinitum.
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Of course it's a bad idea. I'm just saying I wish it were possible. :)
 
Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

ExileOnDaytonStreet said:
I'm about to step into my office, and therefore don't really have enough time to properly articulate out wrong Kepler is. This will suffice. To put it gently, anyone who thinks they aren't at least in part to blame for all of this needs to check their head or their ego.
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When a Gopher fan and a BADger fan agree to this level, people should take pause and listen ;)
 
Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

Kepler said:
I don't buy this at all. Trump lies at the feet of his voters. They are to blame. Not the non-voters, and certainly not those who voted against him.

You don't blame a rape equally on the rapist and the victim.

(If you're a Republican you blame it solely on the victim.)
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True, but if we if we contribute to the culture that allows rape to happen, we have some ownership. The crime of rape does not provide a useful analogy, IMO.
 
Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

ExileOnDaytonStreet said:
To put it gently, anyone who thinks they aren't at least in part to blame for all of this needs to check their head or their ego.
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oh bull****. I voted for Hillary. I tried to convince other people to vote for Hillary, including my in-laws who thought "they are both bad choices". I talked to "Bernie or Bust" people trying to convince them they were wrong. I talked to people that had been conned by Trump to try to point out he had no substance and was in fact a dangerous choice.

I can say "See, I told you so". This **** show ain't my fault.
 
Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

ScoobyDoo said:
Batten down the hatches and ride out the storm. That's all I can do.
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No, that's not all we can do.

"Right now there's one or two of these things. By Spring it could be all of us."
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We have to actively thwart them while also making sure we're ready for the next election so we can first neuter their power in Congress and then evict them from the government entirely.
 
Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

Kepler said:
No, that's not all we can do.



We have to actively thwart them while also making sure we're ready for the next election so we can first neuter their power in Congress and then evict them from the government entirely.
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From what I see out of some Bernie supporters (Susan Sarandon for example) even to this day I think they'd rather martyr themselves then actually govern. So, we have the intractable left who has no interest in working within the confines of a party. And the intractable right who will vote for anyone with an R no matter how dangerous. That's one hell of a hill to climb.

I may be riding this thing out for the rest of my natural life.
 
Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

ExileOnDaytonStreet said:
To be fair: we (collectively, regardless of who we voted for) are to blame. While some of the Russia specifics were mere rumor and innuendo, pretty much everything else about Trump is something we knew for a certainty when he was just a candidate.

The inability to form an argument without childish hyperbole, the thin skinned whining, the sensationalist bravado with nothing to support it, the conspiracy theories, the eternal blame for anyone not him, the insistence that he be surrounded by sycophants, and we could go on. This is what he has been his whole life and it absolutely is who he was on the campaign trail.

We don't even need to bicker over traditional conservative v. progressive issues to come to the conclusion that this man is a spectacularly poor choice for a president.

That we allowed him into office says poor things about who we are as American people.
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Kepler said:
I don't buy this at all. Trump lies at the feet of his voters. They are to blame. Not the non-voters, and certainly not those who voted against him.

You don't blame a rape equally on the rapist and the victim.

(If you're a Republican you blame it solely on the victim.)
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I think we have to agree with Exile on this.

Last summer, Kep, you told me and others that I was responsible for Trump, even if I never supported him, even if I voted for someone else in my primary, even if I hated him. Your explanation, and that of a few others on here, was that Trump was a product of Republican policies, positions and campaign tactics from years past, and that I had to "own" him (as I recall the phrase).

I think if that is true, then EODS is right. Even if we didn't vote for him, even if we can't tolerate what he stands for, he is nevertheless a product of the U.S. election system, the tactics that have been used, the policies we've adopted. As unpalatable as it may seem, we as U.S. citizens "own" him and are at least in some small way responsible for his election.
 
Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

Handyman said:
The GOP is responsible for Trump being nominated, but to pretend the Libs arent at least in part responsible for his being elected and for the current disgusting level of hatred amongst the parties is Fox News level echo chamber BS.
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Well they are in the sense that the higher level people of the Dem party did a terrible job. And I would have to agree that the libs who didn't vote have no right to complain. But I'd place more blame on the former. I get that fear resonates more with the republican voters than libs but there's no reason the democrats couldn't have played that card better. Hey you might lose your health insurance, have to drink lead water, fascism, patriot act, minorities being attacked and giving those who do a legitimized voice etc. if you don't vote for Hillary. Instead they just acted like the election was already won by her and that the crazy old man and the rest of the deplorables on the other side of the table could just be ignored and everything would be fine. Hillary wasn't exactly an exciting candidate who was going to inspire hope and change so they needed to do a better job of showing people the doom day scenario as well as the complete incompetence that would unfold. I get that it would've been hard to imagine but still.

SJHovey said:
I think we have to agree with Exile on this.

Last summer, Kep, you told me and others that I was responsible for Trump, even if I never supported him, even if I voted for someone else in my primary, even if I hated him. Your explanation, and that of a few others on here, was that Trump was a product of Republican policies, positions and campaign tactics from years past, and that I had to "own" him (as I recall the phrase).
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Which of the people that you do support are being vocal in their opposition of Trump? I'll wait...
 
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Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

ScoobyDoo said:
From what I see out of some Bernie supporters (Susan Sarandon for example) even to this day I think they'd rather martyr themselves then actually govern.
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I don't see any of that at all. If you're watching Hollywood as a sign of what's happening, I cannot help you.
 
Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

Kepler said:
I don't see any of that at all. If you're watching Hollywood as a sign of what's happening, I cannot help you.
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Well, that's good, because helping me would be a waste of your time. I'd rather have you out there helping someone else.
 
Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

SJHovey said:
I think we have to agree with Exile on this.

Last summer, Kep, you told me and others that I was responsible for Trump, even if I never supported him, even if I voted for someone else in my primary, even if I hated him. Your explanation, and that of a few others on here, was that Trump was a product of Republican policies, positions and campaign tactics from years past, and that I had to "own" him (as I recall the phrase).

I think if that is true, then EODS is right. Even if we didn't vote for him, even if we can't tolerate what he stands for, he is nevertheless a product of the U.S. election system, the tactics that have been used, the policies we've adopted. As unpalatable as it may seem, we as U.S. citizens "own" him and are at least in some small way responsible for his election.
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We've seen the same pattern happen in 2000, 2004, and now 2016. The Dems better find someone to run with some chops and charisma cause every time they just pick the most qualified person running that year they lose.
 
Re: POTUS 45.4 - What's a Battle?

XYZ said:
Well I'm now dumber than I was yesterday. Bang up.
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Everything in this thread has the tone of "THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING! EVERYTHING THEY DO IS PURE EVIL! Oh look, a cookie. And if you don't agree with me, you're one of them - the most hated and stupiderest people there is." So I've just been spot checking along every so often.
 
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