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POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

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Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Democrats are a coalition of the many. You have the youth vote, Women, you have the votes of the minorities, you have the votes of the LGBTQ, you have the Centrists, you have The Progressives, The Socialists (and more) all of whom are impassioned about their issues but can often come in conflict with another group.

Which is why a winning formula for many democrats in districts that lean red or towards the middle would be to stick to an economic message of fair taxes and higher paying jobs. It's the Tim Ryan message and unfortunately gets little traction with the democratic party hierarchy. They are too enamored with identity politics. While the Democrat's fascination with it is for the right reasons -- inclusion and diversity because those ideals are American, worthy and important to a healthy future, it still potentially divides as much as it unites.

I'm not going to change 99% of the hearts out there. But I might convince someone to vote for a progressive candidate if that candidate focused on coherent ideas about jobs and taxes and how good progressive policies on taxes and jobs matter to them. It matters little if you are white or black, young or old, gay or straight, native born or immigrant. What does matter is having the means to care for yourself and your family. You don't turn off 80% or more of the voting public by talking about a tax structure that is fair to everyone. You don't turn off the working and middle class, or the poor and working poor, by showing them how you will craft policies that raise wages (either through real increases in minimum wage laws or good infrastructure and jobs programs).


When I talk to west side Clevelanders about LGBTQIA (I have lost track of how many letters that is up to, I prefer P, you know, for "people") rights or criminal justice reform or impeaching trump or Clevelanders ANYWHERE about gun control ( a shocking number of African Americans have views on guns that resemble mine) I get no traction. When I talk about fair taxes (everyone paying their fair share and here is how it is fair and productive that the wealthy pay more and the working and middle class pay less and the poor pay little or nothing) and ways to raise wages, I get traction up the a ss everywhere. I would also mix in a little about jobs and job policies that are cognizant of environmental concerns because that doesn't turn off most people either when discussed in terms of sustainable jobs and the wealth of job creation tied to a greener economy.


When the party realizes this is the consistent message to focus on, they might start winning in more places and start taking back the country. We've got two elections to get on the right path.
 
Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Scoob, you and rufus are on the same side of the ball. I don't know why he offends you so much. Or why trix offends Handy (I thinks it's Handy, it might be Brent, I mix them up, no, it's Handy cuz Brent is a righty, right?) so much. FFS, people, we're all on the same side.

You want something simple and negative for 2018: "take the toys from the toddler."

Then in 2020: "send the rat bast-rd back to NY." Or maybe, "free Melania," since she's obviously going to dump him the second he's out of office.

Because trix makes up crap and pretends it is facts. Then when he is presented with the truth he goes ad hom and then spouts ridiculous bot platitudes. His politics I agree with. It was the same deal with Foxton, he and I agreed on everything except how to act when having the actual discussion.

Put it this way Kep me and you argue quite a bit on here...we act with decorum though for the most part. We also have long memories. We have had our wars with the righties on this board (back when way more existed) and they acted closer to how trix or rufus act than anything. Not politically just in general. All sorts of sniping, not really reading what people post but going for the jugular anyways. (see: rufus anytime Brent posts) I am guilty of overreacting as much as anyone but this isnt even overreacting this is just Pavlovian responses...it is like when Bob Gray saw a post by unofan and just ASSUMED he was being attacked. It is nonsensical...

Just because I agree politically with someone doesnt mean I have to like them and just because someone else has political ideas that make me want to vomit doesnt make them a bad person.
 
Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Which is why a winning formula for many democrats in districts that lean red or towards the middle would be to stick to an economic message of fair taxes and higher paying jobs. It's the Tim Ryan message and unfortunately gets little traction with the democratic party hierarchy. They are too enamored with identity politics. While the Democrat's fascination with it is for the right reasons -- inclusion and diversity because those ideals are American, worthy and important to a healthy future, it still potentially divides as much as it unites.

I'm not going to change 99% of the hearts out there. But I might convince someone to vote for a progressive candidate if that candidate focused on coherent ideas about jobs and taxes and how good progressive policies on taxes and jobs matter to them. It matters little if you are white or black, young or old, gay or straight, native born or immigrant. What does matter is having the means to care for yourself and your family. You don't turn off 80% or more of the voting public by talking about a tax structure that is fair to everyone. You don't turn off the working and middle class, or the poor and working poor, by showing them how you will craft policies that raise wages (either through real increases in minimum wage laws or good infrastructure and jobs programs).


When I talk to west side Clevelanders about LGBTQIA (I have lost track of how many letters that is up to, I prefer P, you know, for "people") rights or criminal justice reform or impeaching trump or Clevelanders ANYWHERE about gun control ( a shocking number of African Americans have views on guns that resemble mine) I get no traction. When I talk about fair taxes (everyone paying their fair share and here is how it is fair and productive that the wealthy pay more and the working and middle class pay less and the poor pay little or nothing) and ways to raise wages, I get traction up the a ss everywhere. I would also mix in a little about jobs and job policies that are cognizant of environmental concerns because that doesn't turn off most people either when discussed in terms of sustainable jobs and the wealth of job creation tied to a greener economy.


When the party realizes this is the consistent message to focus on, they might start winning in more places and start taking back the country. We've got two elections to get on the right path.
Spot on, economics is the key issue for most people and a lot of exit polls show this as well. Obviously a lot of the social justice issues are intertwined with economics too.

That's not to say the social issues don't matter or that democrats shouldn't give attention to those issues, it's just that being liberal on social issues and doing nothing to break the barriers that create inequality and many of those social ills isn't going to cut it when half the country is at or below the poverty line.
 
Because trix makes up crap and pretends it is facts. Then when he is presented with the truth he goes ad hom and then spouts ridiculous bot platitudes. His politics I agree with. It was the same deal with Foxton, he and I agreed on everything except how to act when having the actual discussion.

Put it this way Kep me and you argue quite a bit on here...we act with decorum though for the most part. We also have long memories. We have had our wars with the righties on this board (back when way more existed) and they acted closer to how trix or rufus act than anything. Not politically just in general. All sorts of sniping, not really reading what people post but going for the jugular anyways. (see: rufus anytime Brent posts) I am guilty of overreacting as much as anyone but this isnt even overreacting this is just Pavlovian responses...it is like when Bob Gray saw a post by unofan and just ASSUMED he was being attacked. It is nonsensical...

Just because I agree politically with someone doesnt mean I have to like them and just because someone else has political ideas that make me want to vomit doesnt make them a bad person.

We are nd hockey is the only bad person here.
 
Spot on, economics is the key issue for most people and a lot of exit polls show this as well. Obviously a lot of the social justice issues are intertwined with economics too.

That's not to say the social issues don't matter or that democrats shouldn't give attention to those issues, it's just that being liberal on social issues and doing nothing to break the barriers that create inequality and many of those social ills isn't going to cut it when half the country is at or below the poverty line.

It’s the economy, stupid


:)
 
Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

If you need an explanation for what taxes are for then you're already voting Republican anyway. That's not why they stayed home. They stayed home because they have to fall in love. And they were not in love. They weren't in love with Gore. They weren't in love with Kerry. They were in love with Obama. Find someone they can love you'll win. Find someone they can't and the Republicans will win again. Plain and simple.

I want this to not be true but it is. They need to be something special...like Bill Clinton or Obama. Those guys could read the ingredients of Kool-Aid and captivate an audience. Gore and Hillary were wonks on policy...two of the most learned and experienced people to run for the position in my lifetime but they were boring. Even when you agreed with their ideas you couldnt keep your eyes open long enough to pull the lever for them. They didnt inspire you, they didnt make you feel like part of a movement...they were just kinda there. That is a horrid indictment for Hillary because she was running on history and STILL couldnt inspire. If she had 1/4 of the charisma and spark of Elizabeth Warren she probably eeks out the win. Instead she doubled down on the things everyone criticized her for in '08.
 
Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Apparently, Paul Manafort's lawyer just hired a lawyer.
 
Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Handy is probably still mad about some argument we had about baseball stats in like 2011 or something.

Nah that stuff makes me laugh. Plus offending stats nerds is a great way to make a day fly by. ;) :D

(I also dont hate stats as much as stats nerds think I do...I just dont worship them like hockey fans do the PWR or KRACH)
 
Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Because trix makes up crap and pretends it is facts. Then when he is presented with the truth he goes ad hom and then spouts ridiculous bot platitudes. His politics I agree with. It was the same deal with Foxton, he and I agreed on everything except how to act when having the actual discussion.

Put it this way Kep me and you argue quite a bit on here...we act with decorum though for the most part. We also have long memories. We have had our wars with the righties on this board (back when way more existed) and they acted closer to how trix or rufus act than anything. Not politically just in general. All sorts of sniping, not really reading what people post but going for the jugular anyways. (see: rufus anytime Brent posts) I am guilty of overreacting as much as anyone but this isnt even overreacting this is just Pavlovian responses...it is like when Bob Gray saw a post by unofan and just ASSUMED he was being attacked. It is nonsensical...

Just because I agree politically with someone doesnt mean I have to like them and just because someone else has political ideas that make me want to vomit doesnt make them a bad person.

I don't think any of the people you mentioned, or really any of the people here who argue from the left, make up facts. I think we all have tempers that we sometimes lose except dx who seems to be some kind of a f-cking Hindu Minnesota Nice god. I'm OK with everybody here arguing on our side and about 90% of the folks on the other side defending the indefensible.

Also: I have said plenty of things here over the years I regret. I've violated decorum many times. People get hot headed, especially when they are frustrated or they see (rightly or not) their interlocutors twisting their words.
 
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Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

I don't think any of the people you mentioned, or really any of the people here who argue from the left, make up facts. I think we all have tempers that we sometimes lose except dx who seems to be some kind of a f-cking Hindu Minnesota Nice god. I'm OK with everybody here arguing on our side and about 90% of the folks on the other side defending the indefensible.

Well we agree to disagree. Hopefully in 2 years we can have these arguments because we won not because we lost :)

On another note:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Our Justice Department must not let Awan & Debbie Wasserman Schultz off the hook. The Democrat I.T. scandal is a key to much of the corruption we see today. They want to make a “plea deal” to hide what is on their Server. Where is Server? Really bad!</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1004726490058182656?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 7, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Speaking of emails scandals:<br>MEDIA - please cover Jared and Ivanka's use of personal emails in their capacities as White House employees. Once publicly disclosed, these personal accounts used for U.S. government business were moved to a Trump Organization server. Please cover! <a href="https://t.co/FlppweDw5n">https://t.co/FlppweDw5n</a></p>— Amy Siskind (@Amy_Siskind) <a href="https://twitter.com/Amy_Siskind/status/1004735231599968256?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 7, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-cards="hidden" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Three Arkansas companies say they'll close if Trump doesn't give them exemption from steel tariffs <a href="https://t.co/xdwV1dZpPl">https://t.co/xdwV1dZpPl</a> <a href="https://t.co/4YD3QQQJd3">pic.twitter.com/4YD3QQQJd3</a></p>— The Hill (@thehill) <a href="https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1004755881685331969?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 7, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Uh...that is probably not a good sign for Paulie ;)

The quote I read from an experienced prosecutor (not on this case) was "Manafort should bring a toothbrush to his hearing on June 15."

It could not happen to a nicer guy unless it is the Thug In Chief himself. uno and the lawyers here will know better but it appears actually, really, truly possible that Paul Manafort could go to jail for the rest of his life.
 
Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Never change faux
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Check out the fine print in Trump's latest video touting the booming economy. 92 months of job growth. NINETY TWO! Thanks, Don! <a href="https://t.co/wHuf7OZQXp">pic.twitter.com/wHuf7OZQXp</a></p>— Vic Berger IV (@VicBergerIV) <a href="https://twitter.com/VicBergerIV/status/1004758105241112576?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 7, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

I want this to not be true but it is. They need to be something special...like Bill Clinton or Obama. Those guys could read the ingredients of Kool-Aid and captivate an audience. Gore and Hillary were wonks on policy...two of the most learned and experienced people to run for the position in my lifetime but they were boring. Even when you agreed with their ideas you couldnt keep your eyes open long enough to pull the lever for them. They didnt inspire you, they didnt make you feel like part of a movement...they were just kinda there. That is a horrid indictment for Hillary because she was running on history and STILL couldnt inspire. If she had 1/4 of the charisma and spark of Elizabeth Warren she probably eeks out the win. Instead she doubled down on the things everyone criticized her for in '08.

Thank you.
 
Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

You still haven't answered why you think your God is telling the truth when all it's been is hundreds of thousands of lies. C'mon. Tell us how he told the truth today.

“We’re now exporting energy for the first time. Never did it. Now we’re exporting energy.”

— President Trump, speaking at a briefing at FEMA headquarters on Wednesday.

Lies. All lies. Just like that Fake News Source you spout every day.
 
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