POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

I support Perez as a person, not his (and Rover's) faction. Perez is a smart guy. Clearly I would prefer an even smarter, more liberal, guy. But right now I don't see that guy out there -- do you have a suggestion? It is obviously very hard for that guy to thrive in the current Democratic apparatus.

If he was smart he'd do what he said he was going to do. His credibility with me and people like me is shot. And it's his own damm fault.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

I support Perez as a person, not his (and Rover's) faction. Perez is a smart guy. Clearly I would prefer an even smarter, more liberal, guy. But right now I don't see that guy out there -- do you have a suggestion? It is obviously very hard for that guy to thrive in the current Democratic apparatus.

Also, I don't see Perez as cheating towards the moderates in the way that say DWS did. I do see Perez shutting down cheeseball celeb candidates, and I support that. I don't want our version of Roseanne standing for any public office higher than Hollywood dog catcher.

Wow. Nice spin. Epic fail in convincing me but you might get the stupids on board.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Why I question this as the majority of right wing thought is that I've yet to see good ol' angry rural populist folk protesting Paul Ryan, or Mar-E-Largo or Wall St, or anywhere else. What I am seeing is whites protesting minorities with the examples I've already given. If the right was going all William Jennings Bryan on us, or even a portion of them, they sure are keeping it to themselves from what I've seen.

Here are six Dump populist promises. He has, of course, broken every one of them, because he's a lying liar, but it's what he ran on.

• A constitutional amendment imposing term limits on members of Congress
• A ban on federal employees lobbying the government for five years
• A ban on members of Congress lobbying for five years
• Tighter rules about what constitutes a lobbyist, instead of letting people call themselves consultants
• Campaign finance reform limiting what foreign companies can raise for American political candidates
• A ban on senior government officials lobbying for foreign governments

Here is Dump attacking Hedge Fund managers. He has, of course, given them the key to the US Treasury in The Heist, because he's a lying liar, but it's what he ran on.

In a telephone interview on CBS’s “Face the Nation,” Trump vowed to reform the tax laws if elected and said the current system was harming middle class Americans who currently faced higher tax rates than traders on Wall Street.

“The hedge fund guys didn’t build this country. These are guys that shift paper around and they get lucky,” Trump said.

“They are energetic. They are very smart. But a lot of them - they are paper-pushers. They make a fortune. They pay no tax. It’s ridiculous, ok?”

Trump’s comments were referring to the so-called “carried interest loophole” - a provision in the tax code which allows private equity and hedge fund managers pay taxes at the capital gains rate instead of the ordinary income rate.

Many fund managers are in the top income bracket, but the capital gains tax bracket is only 20 percent.

While these individuals are also required to pay an additional 3.8 percent surtax on their net investment income, this total rate is still far lower than the 39.6 percent rate that top wage earners must pay on their ordinary income.

“Some of them are friends of mine. Some of them, I couldn’t care less about,” Trump said.

“It is the wrong thing. These guys are getting away with murder. I want to lower the rates for the middle class.”

The reason you have yet to see good ol' angry rural populist folk protesting Paul Ryan, or Mar-E-Largo, is because they are f-cking stupid and brainwashed by the Echo Chamber. Those puds actually think their enemy is Maxine Waters, not Don Blankenship. Because their media tells them that every single day, and has been for 30 years.

 

[Rover]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Its nice to have a stalker again, but roofie seems like a Sanders stoner so I doubt he can do any real damage without stopping every half hour to have a snack.

Having said that, what he stupidly fails to realize is things like the Iraq Resolution, the Gorsuch nomination, or the recent roll back on Dodd-Frank legislation never would have happened had Dems been in power. So, sitting out elections has consequences, because you now allow the nutters in the GOP to call the shots and then jam you up with take it or leave it legislation. Dem voters had the power to return Feingold to the Senate and also elect Dems in PA and FL. They chose not to, and kept the Senate in GOP control. Majority Leader Chuck Schumer doesn't allow Gorsuch on the court (in fact he lead filibuster against him causing GOP to change the rules). He only becomes Majority Leader on the backs of the votes of Manchin, Heitkamp, Tester, and Donnelly.

Now do you finally get it roofie?

 

[Rover]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Here are six Dump populist promises. He has, of course, broken every one of them, because he's a lying liar, but it's what he ran on.



Here is Dump attacking Hedge Fund managers. He has, of course, given them the key to the US Treasury in The Heist, because he's a lying liar, but it's what he ran on.

Kep, my point isn't that he never brought this stuff up. My point is the vast majority of his rhetoric went to demonizing non-whites (along with Muslims). That was his focus, and his appeal. It still is.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Wow. Nice spin. Epic fail in convincing me but you might get the stupids on board.

It's not spin, Scoob. It just isn't something you want to hear since then how would you run around like Chicken Little?

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Kep, my point isn't that he never brought this stuff up. My point is the vast majority of his rhetoric went to demonizing non-whites (along with Muslims). That was his focus, and his appeal. It still is.

My Extremely Disappointing Dumpy friend, the economics PhD, went to his rallies and told me that five minutes would be about the Muzzies and 2 hours would be about trade. The Muzzies clip made the news.

Again, I'm not saying Dumpies aren't racist -- they're totally racist. But they are also lighting it up on traditionally populist economic messaging. That is where all the protectionist rhetoric comes from. It's where the tariff wars -- actual implemented (well, half as-sedly) policy -- comes from.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

It's not spin, Scoob. It just isn't something you want to hear since then how would you run around like Chicken Little?

No it is spin. He broke his number one promise he made in taking that job. That's not spin, that's fact. What you did was spin that into him protecting something sacred. Don't parse with me, it won't work.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Wow. Nice spin. Epic fail in convincing me but you might get the stupids on board.

Also, you skipped my question. Who is your better alternative?

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

What you did was spin that into him protecting something sacred. Don't parse with me, it won't work.

I don't parse, Scooby. If there's one f-cking thing you should know by now after 20 years of this, it's that I. Don't. Cheat. I may be WAY TOO F-CKING THEATRICAL but I don't cheat and I hate when people do. Why do you think I bodyslam Fish whenever he pulls his crap? I hate cheaters.

So do me a favor and either show me where I cheated, specifically, or withdraw that.

I'm a jerk, not a snake.

 

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Thank you. Yes.

We've got some Kos Disease here, where you have to march lock step with Stalin's Words For The Day or you are anathema.

If you want to win...yes you do. Again this isnt academic this is the real word and despite your protestations of the facts, we are losing. You want to **** away another election...you and trix keep dividing it will work like gangbusters again.

And dont pretend you arent playing the same games you are ripping others for. I am way more Progressive than Centrist as is Scooby but just because we disagreed wit you and told you so you painted us as such.

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

They were handed an all or nothing burger from the Republicans again. It's what you always get from their side. That's why we no longer have triangulation and we no longer have compromise legislation. They have broken the system. And it's not repairable unless Democrats control everything. And they've lost the Courts for decades so good luck.

So then give them nothing. Republicans hold the majority, they don't need democrat votes. You're listening to their spin on why they voted for it, and taking it as gospel. Sometimes you have to play hardball. The Republicans understand this. When will the Democrats learn?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

So then give them nothing. Republicans hold the majority, they don't need democrat votes. You're listening to their spin on why they voted for it, and taking it as gospel. Sometimes you have to play hardball. The Republicans understand this. When will the Democrats learn?

I can't answer that. I only reported why. My vote would have been the same as yours.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

And dont pretend you arent playing the same games you are ripping others for. I am way more Progressive than Centrist as is Scooby but just because we disagreed wit you and told you so you painted us as such.

I didn't follow this part.

For the prior part, I agree we should be absolutely united in pushing whatever Dem candidates are nominated and we should be united behind Dem leadership if we're strong enough to flip either/both chambers. But are you saying we can't even disagree on a message board? I mean, there are places I tread carefully on, on broader social media. I never dis Hillary in a widely-viewed arena because I don't wish to contribute to that noise (I don't wish her brought up at all).

But I think this place is a safe sparring place to work out kinks before taking the message on the road. That is how I use it, anyway. It's a bull pen -- aint nobody on these threads gonna ever have their mind changed. You think I have any hope of ever convincing Rover of the evils of Late Stage Capitalism, or that he has any hope of ever convincing me to accept Goldman Sachs as my personal lord and savior?

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

So then give them nothing. Republicans hold the majority, they don't need democrat votes. You're listening to their spin on why they voted for it, and taking it as gospel. Sometimes you have to play hardball. The Republicans understand this. When will the Democrats learn?

"Give them nothing." These are words to live by. You compromise and deal with another rational being; not a madman.

The GOP has left American values and is traveling in gross, unexplored country somewhere adjacent to if not within Fascism. Giving them even a hint of bipartisan cover is collaboration.

Not to mention it buys us nothing.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Dodd-Frank was about the most watered down financial "regulation" they could get passed, as again, they wouldn't fight the Repubs for anything tougher. But once again, policy straight out of that centrist, Third Way, Republican lite that you think the Dems should be. And what about this most recent horrible banking legislation they joined with the Repubs to get passed?

You said it all better than I could've (I was about to respond to his post until I saw your's). The only thing I'd add is that Dems just dismantled Dodd-Frank in a bipartisan effort recently. So add that to the list.

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

Its nice to have a stalker again, but roofie seems like a Sanders stoner so I doubt he can do any real damage without stopping every half hour to have a snack.

Having said that, what he stupidly fails to realize is things like the Iraq Resolution, the Gorsuch nomination, or the recent roll back on Dodd-Frank legislation never would have happened had Dems been in power. So, sitting out elections has consequences, because you now allow the nutters in the GOP to call the shots and then jam you up with take it or leave it legislation. Dem voters had the power to return Feingold to the Senate and also elect Dems in PA and FL. They chose not to, and kept the Senate in GOP control. Majority Leader Chuck Schumer doesn't allow Gorsuch on the court (in fact he lead filibuster against him causing GOP to change the rules). He only becomes Majority Leader on the backs of the votes of Manchin, Heitkamp, Tester, and Donnelly.

Now do you finally get it roofie?

Give people something to vote for and they'll show up.


Telling them, "we'll keep things just as they are" isn't gonna do it. Cause while "as they are" may be working for a lot of people, there are still lots more who need help. Tell them how you'll make their lives better. Give it to them. They'll vote for you.

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

No it is spin. He broke his number one promise he made in taking that job. That's not spin, that's fact. What you did was spin that into him protecting something sacred. Don't parse with me, it won't work.

What was his #1 promise?

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

You said it all better than I could've (I was about to respond to his post until I saw your's). The only thing I'd add is that Dems just dismantled Dodd-Frank in a bipartisan effort recently. So add that to the list.

But they had no choice. it was all they were offered. They had to vote for it.


We saw it with healthcare. The Republicans are not unified. If they could muster enough votes together to get their banking "reform" passed, then ok, they did it. But Democrats don't have to give them bipartisan cover and vote for it as well.


If they don't get their votes together, then it doesn't pass. If they want it to pass, they either appease their hardliners by making it even more odious, or they come to the Dems, who can try to get the worst parts of it softened. Either way, you don't need to give them cover to pass bad legislation.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

The majority of those that supported that did it for the small banks who have been hampered by the regulations. It's a tough spot. You have small banks in your district and you want to support them. The Big Banks were/have been/always will be the problem. In fact I believe that we have forgotten what monopolizing is and have absconded from our responsibilities around it. Everything is merger this and merger that. Earning a profit, giving your workers a good job with benefits, and being responsible to the community isn't enough now you have to earn the billionaire's trillions.

It'd be one thing if it only eased regulations on small banks and not ones that have their name on a stadium like Citigroup.

Aside from the gifts to Citigroup and other big banks, the bill undermines fair lending rules that work to counter racial discrimination and rolls back regulation and oversight on large regional banks that aren’t big enough to be global names, but have enough cash to get a stadium named after themselves. In the name of mild relief for community banks, these institutions — which have been christened “stadium banks” by congressional staff opposing the legislation — are punching a gaping hole through Wall Street reform. Twenty-five of the 38 biggest domestic banks in the country, and globally significant foreign banks that have engaged in rampant misconduct, would get freed from enhanced supervision.

https://theintercept.com/2018/03/02...s-for-a-stealth-attack-on-wall-street-reform/

Give people something to vote for and they'll show up.


Telling them, "we'll keep things just as they are" isn't gonna do it. Cause while "as they are" may be working for a lot of people, there are still lots more who need help. Tell them how you'll make their lives better. Give it to them. They'll vote for you.

AMERICA IS GREAT SEEEEEEEEEEEEE!