POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

[Handyman]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

Speaking as someone who may or may not have a certain amount of inside access to the goings-on here...

Many people were ultimately harmed, and it happened in two basic ways. First, they had savings accounts and/or checking accounts that would be free if opened for some dollar value greater than a minimum threshold, but were instead opened, unknowingly to the client, and for balances that did not meet the threshold. That caused them to be charged maintenance fees on those accounts until they were closed.

Also, these accounts, along with credit card accounts, had the potential - some realized, others unrealized - to harm these people in their credit scores, costing them actual money by forcing them into a higher interest rate bracket when borrowing money.

Not all people who were classified as "victims" were harmed in this charade, but a great number of people were.

Oh you...with your facts and actual knowledge on the situation!!

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

Speaking as someone who may or may not have a certain amount of inside access to the goings-on here...

Many people were ultimately harmed, and it happened in two basic ways. First, they had savings accounts and/or checking accounts that would be free if opened for some dollar value greater than a minimum threshold, but were instead opened, unknowingly to the client, and for balances that did not meet the threshold. That caused them to be charged maintenance fees on those accounts until they were closed.

Also, these accounts, along with credit card accounts, had the potential - some realized, others unrealized - to harm these people in their credit scores, costing them actual money by forcing them into a higher interest rate bracket when borrowing money.

Not all people who were classified as "victims" were harmed in this charade, but a great number of people were.

Thank you for explaining this, I knew it definitely did affect people and peoples' accounts were being charged. But it didn't affect Hovey so therefore it doesn't matter. those lawyers are the real problem!

 

[geezer]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

Trump is singlehandedly contributing to setting back civil relations in this country hundreds of years. Her voice would be better spent moderating his tweets than doing anything else.

And I feel that you should stay in the kitchen and make me sandwiches, because a family member of yours did a bad thing...
I think we covered this already, but first ladies and gentlemen and children are not elected and are not accountable to the people. Family member is not a paid position. Melania and Barron have exactly as much duty to the nation as you or I do (not to say that I don't also wish she had the resources to reign in her maniac husband).

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

And I feel that you should stay in the kitchen and make me sandwiches, because a family member of yours did a bad thing...
I think we covered this already, but first ladies and gentlemen and children are not elected and are not accountable to the people. Family member is not a paid position. Melania and Barron have exactly as much duty to the nation as you or I do (not to say that I don't also wish she had the resources to reign in her maniac husband).

Children, sure. But if you don't think that First Ladies sign up to be First Ladies then you haven't paid attention. Melania will be judged and compared for eternity. And it doesn't have to be me or anyone else around here it will just happen.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

Speaking as someone who may or may not have a certain amount of inside access to the goings-on here...

Many people were ultimately harmed, and it happened in two basic ways. First, they had savings accounts and/or checking accounts that would be free if opened for some dollar value greater than a minimum threshold, but were instead opened, unknowingly to the client, and for balances that did not meet the threshold. That caused them to be charged maintenance fees on those accounts until they were closed.

Also, these accounts, along with credit card accounts, had the potential - some realized, others unrealized - to harm these people in their credit scores, costing them actual money by forcing them into a higher interest rate bracket when borrowing money.

Not all people who were classified as "victims" were harmed in this charade, but a great number of people were.

Two things.

First, if people had a "realized harm," bring a claim. They have the arbitration case they can file. Nothing is stopping them. I suspect that most of them are like me and suffered no harm, or the harm they suffered was so immaterial that no rational person would ever bother themselves with it.

That gets me to my second point, which is what prompted this entire discussion.

What Scooby was whining about this morning isn't going to help those with "realized harm." Even if the law was changed, like he hoped, the next people hosed by the Wells Fargos of the world aren't going to have that harm compensated. Instead they are going to be like all of the rest of us who have been plaintiffs in these class action lawsuits.

That's the big joke that most here don't get. The Senate didn't deny anyone their day in court. They denied you the right to think you were getting your day in court and that you had some chance of getting compensated.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

Two things.

First, if people had a "realized harm," bring a claim. They have the arbitration case they can file. Nothing is stopping them. I suspect that most of them are like me and suffered no harm, or the harm they suffered was so immaterial that no rational person would ever bother themselves with it.

That gets me to my second point, which is what prompted this entire discussion.

What Scooby was whining about this morning isn't going to help those with "realized harm." Even if the law was changed, like he hoped, the next people hosed by the Wells Fargos of the world aren't going to have that harm compensated. Instead they are going to be like all of the rest of us who have been plaintiffs in these class action lawsuits.

That's the big joke that most here don't get. The Senate didn't deny anyone their day in court. They denied you the right to think you were getting your day in court and that you had some chance of getting compensated.

No, what I'm whining about is they have destroyed any way for the a class action to institute change. Something you don't seem to care about.

 

[alfablue]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

Two things.

First, if people had a "realized harm," bring a claim. They have the arbitration case they can file. Nothing is stopping them. I suspect that most of them are like me and suffered no harm, or the harm they suffered was so immaterial that no rational person would ever bother themselves with it.

That gets me to my second point, which is what prompted this entire discussion.

What Scooby was whining about this morning isn't going to help those with "realized harm." Even if the law was changed, like he hoped, the next people hosed by the Wells Fargos of the world aren't going to have that harm compensated. Instead they are going to be like all of the rest of us who have been plaintiffs in these class action lawsuits.

That's the big joke that most here don't get. The Senate didn't deny anyone their day in court. They denied you the right to think you were getting your day in court and that you had some chance of getting compensated.

The thing is, it's not about individual compensation, it's about penalizing the company to stop them from behaving badly.

A series of arbitration hearings, where they are driving that, isn't going to do that at all. Especially when people like you are not going to get involved. Whereas a large group can do that, and get the company to behave. That's the entire point of class action lawsuits.

Basically, since it's hard as a group to get a suit together, and it's not worth individuals doing anything- this just allows companies to do small time BS that where they gain on a group level. The real joke is on you. You are an example of why companies can get away with fraud like that.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

Two things.

First, if people had a "realized harm," bring a claim. They have the arbitration case they can file. Nothing is stopping them. I suspect that most of them are like me and suffered no harm, or the harm they suffered was so immaterial that no rational person would ever bother themselves with it.

That gets me to my second point, which is what prompted this entire discussion.

What Scooby was whining about this morning isn't going to help those with "realized harm." Even if the law was changed, like he hoped, the next people hosed by the Wells Fargos of the world aren't going to have that harm compensated. Instead they are going to be like all of the rest of us who have been plaintiffs in these class action lawsuits.

That's the big joke that most here don't get. The Senate didn't deny anyone their day in court. They denied you the right to think you were getting your day in court and that you had some chance of getting compensated.

The dollar value of the fees portion alone averaged between $1-10 in undue revenue for the bank. The quantity of accounts uncovered during WF's internal investigation numbered just over 3.5 million (one group of 2.1 million, and a second discovery of another 1.4 million). When you consider that a number of people had no financial impact, those who were actually impacted were all truly paying higher than $1 minimum in the range.

The credit score impact is the toughest to gauge, because you don't know if someone took out a smaller loan, no loan, or just paid the higher interest rates. That could be where the lawyers really make their <s>fees</s> case, in the potential impact rather than actual impact to their clients/class.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

No, what I'm whining about is they have destroyed any way for the a class action to institute change. Something you don't seem to care about.

The thing is, it's not about individual compensation, it's about penalizing the company to stop them from behaving badly.

A series of arbitration hearings, where they are driving that, isn't going to do that at all. Especially when people like you are not going to get involved. Whereas a large group can do that, and get the company to behave. That's the entire point of class action lawsuits.

Basically, since it's hard as a group to get a suit together, and it's not worth individuals doing anything- this just allows companies to do small time BS that where they gain on a group level. The real joke is on you. You are an example of why companies can get away with fraud like that.

Hey, I have an idea. If it's about punishing corporations and the individuals who work for them, we should set up a court system for doing that. Maybe call it something like "the criminal justice system" or something catchy like that. We'd have to come up with a catchy name for the people who actually prosecute the cases, but I'm sure we could do it.

Do we take the position it's not a crime to falsify credit applications or bank account applications or the like? Is there some reason we can't put these people in jail as a form of "punishment" and to deter future little fraudsters from copying their methods?

The civil justice system is for compensating people who have been wronged. Using it as a cudgel to prosecute criminal behavior is silly.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

You guys sit here and post about "punishing" a corporation for it's wrongdoing, like it's a dog that just pizzed on the floor but will learn it's lesson when you punish it. Do you think the class actions are going to teach a corporation anything? How does that work exactly? Human beings have the ability to learn. Corporations can't learn or be taught anything.

If you extract $30 million from Wells Fargo in a class action, did somehow the "corporation" learn anything? It just comes out of corporate profits, to the extent they don't get that money back from you in other fees. You punish wrong behavior by punishing the human beings who implemented it. You think the class action is going to name all the local account execs as defendants?

Again, that's the real fraud here. The fraudulent idea that the class actions are going to compensate the victims. The fraudulent idea that we'll punish the corporation like a scolded dog.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

Hey, I have an idea. If it's about punishing corporations and the individuals who work for them, we should set up a court system for doing that. Maybe call it something like "the criminal justice system" or something catchy like that. We'd have to come up with a catchy name for the people who actually prosecute the cases, but I'm sure we could do it.

Do we take the position it's not a crime to falsify credit applications or bank account applications or the like? Is there some reason we can't put these people in jail as a form of "punishment" and to deter future little fraudsters from copying their methods?

The civil justice system is for compensating people who have been wronged. Using it as a cudgel to prosecute criminal behavior is silly.

Sure, go ahead. Fix that problem.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...o-to-jail-over-wells-fargos-fraud-scheme.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/04/som...or-wells-fargo-scandal-says-sen-heitkamp.html
http://omcik.com/any-individual-ought-to-go-to-jail-for-wells-fargo-scandal-says-sen-heitkamp/

Good luck.

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

Hey, I have an idea. If it's about punishing corporations and the individuals who work for them, we should set up a court system for doing that. Maybe call it something like "the criminal justice system" or something catchy like that. We'd have to come up with a catchy name for the people who actually prosecute the cases, but I'm sure we could do it.

Do we take the position it's not a crime to falsify credit applications or bank account applications or the like? Is there some reason we can't put these people in jail as a form of "punishment" and to deter future little fraudsters from copying their methods?

The civil justice system is for compensating people who have been wronged. Using it as a cudgel to prosecute criminal behavior is silly.

Class action suits are part of that "criminal justice system".

Arbitration is not. Particularly when those doing the arbitrating are chosen by the companies accused of the wrongdoing.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

You guys sit here and post about "punishing" a corporation for it's wrongdoing, like it's a dog that just pizzed on the floor but will learn it's lesson when you punish it. Do you think the class actions are going to teach a corporation anything? How does that work exactly? Human beings have the ability to learn. Corporations can't learn or be taught anything.

If you extract $30 million from Wells Fargo in a class action, did somehow the "corporation" learn anything? It just comes out of corporate profits, to the extent they don't get that money back from you in other fees. You punish wrong behavior by punishing the human beings who implemented it. You think the class action is going to name all the local account execs as defendants?

Again, that's the real fraud here. The fraudulent idea that the class actions are going to compensate the victims. The fraudulent idea that we'll punish the corporation like a scolded dog.

The head of Community Banking "retired," as did the then-CEO, Jon Stumpf. Changes to banker compensation policies changed, including the removal of new account quotas.

The entity didn't learn anything from the lawsuit, but actions were taken to punish the two fall guys. One likely knew the details, the other likely did not, but should have had suspected something was amiss. Three members of the Board of Directors "left" the company, too. There is new employee training in place, mandated for all employees, even those without customer contact.

The harm suffered by WF won't be in the lawsuit payout. That'll be a pittance compared to revenue and profit, both measuring in the tens of billions. The harm is in the brand taking a hit. Wells Fargo had been the largest by, by market capitalization, in the USA. That's no longer the case as the market's good will premium evaporated since last year.

 

[geezer]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

if you don't think that First Ladies sign up to be First Ladies then you haven't paid attention. Melania will be judged and compared for eternity. And it doesn't have to be me or anyone else around here it will just happen.

I seriously have no idea what the first two statements have to do with each other, or what either has to do with the subject at hand. I do agree that public figures, especially women, tend to be judged harshly for what they say out loud, even when their statements are laudable.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

Class action suits are part of that "criminal justice system".

Arbitration is not. Particularly when those doing the arbitrating are chosen by the companies accused of the wrongdoing.

No, they're part of the civil court system, not criminal court system.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

You guys sit here and post about "punishing" a corporation for it's wrongdoing, like it's a dog that just pizzed on the floor but will learn it's lesson when you punish it. Do you think the class actions are going to teach a corporation anything? How does that work exactly? Human beings have the ability to learn. Corporations can't learn or be taught anything.

If you extract $30 million from Wells Fargo in a class action, did somehow the "corporation" learn anything? It just comes out of corporate profits, to the extent they don't get that money back from you in other fees. You punish wrong behavior by punishing the human beings who implemented it. You think the class action is going to name all the local account execs as defendants?

Again, that's the real fraud here. The fraudulent idea that the class actions are going to compensate the victims. The fraudulent idea that we'll punish the corporation like a scolded dog.

Personally, I'm not interested in punishing a corporation. Transfer it to its employees and put the management to death.

Deterrence.

 

[Drew S.]

The head of Community Banking "retired," as did the then-CEO, Jon Stumpf. Changes to banker compensation policies changed, including the removal of new account quotas.

The entity didn't learn anything from the lawsuit, but actions were taken to punish the two fall guys. One likely knew the details, the other likely did not, but should have had suspected something was amiss. Three members of the Board of Directors "left" the company, too. There is new employee training in place, mandated for all employees, even those without customer contact.

The harm suffered by WF won't be in the lawsuit payout. That'll be a pittance compared to revenue and profit, both measuring in the tens of billions. The harm is in the brand taking a hit. Wells Fargo had been the largest by, by market capitalization, in the USA. That's no longer the case as the market's good will premium evaporated since last year.

All I'll say is the grass isn't always greener. Good luck to those folks going elsewhere. I've never banked with them but can't imagine they are worse than the bank I use.

 

[unofan]

I seriously have no idea what the first two statements have to do with each other, or what either has to do with the subject at hand. I do agree that public figures, especially women, tend to be judged harshly for what they say out loud, even when their statements are laudable.

Tl;Dr version: Children are off limits, first ladies are not. Melania doesn't get an exception just because she's a mail order bride and her husband is a narcissistic ******* who likely didn't consult with her first.

 

[French Rage]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

https://twitter.com/davidmackau/status/923237380026494976

As an Ivy League grad, let me say he is a dumb fat sack of crap for thinking it makes him civil.

 

[Spartanforlife4]

Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

https://twitter.com/davidmackau/status/923237380026494976

As an Ivy League grad, let me say he is a dumb fat sack of crap for thinking it makes him civil.

Honestly, I'm surprised he doesn't push the Ivy League thing more than Andy from The Office. He's so tied to his ego, yet he didn't even mention what type of education he had during the "I have the best words" remark, just that he was "highly" educated.